Have Video Games been on a Downward Spiral?

100%
I haven't played a local multiplayer game with people in years, simply due to not having anybody to play em with within like 50 miles. And being on pc kinda means i dont really have anywhere for people to comfortably sit lol.

I would say server based, something like gmod, if you don't like the server there's hundreds of thousands of more to choose from and you want friends you can just invite them.

Online multiplayer streams are how I met one of my best friends

When you don’t have the social life DLC 😔

I also disagreed with this part of the video for slightly different reasons. My friends and I are all in our 30s and it's just easier to play games over the internet than it is to all get together and sit in the same physical space. I have lots of friends, but many of them have wives, kids, jobs, and live more than a block away from me. Lots of games come out nowadays with local coop only (Cook Serve Delicious, Wizard of Legend, Cuphead, etc.) This always annoys me because they are amazing games with 0 online support and don't even get me started on Steam Couchplay which is the laggiest thing in the world.

Yeah Finding a subrebbit for a game like, animal crossing for example, and playing with people all over the world is fun because I can’t play local with anyone

Okay but i cant play shit with 2 people sitting in the same room as me unless they shill out $450+ for a console and what ever online multiplayer only game that were trying to play just to all get booted since my internet sucks yeah real big smooth brain play getting rid of couch coop

That is a good point, but the majority of people in our society COULD make time to play couch multiplayer and/or find friends within the town/city to play with. The fact that all of us abled people decide not to see each other is the problem.

I thank that's what emp was trying to say. I hope that didn't come across as ableist and rude.

just listened to your episode of forehead fables yesterday and here you are lol

small world

YEEHAW NI-!

No one said having online makes a game worse, it's that LACK of LOCAL play is an issue for many modern games. Despite the benefits of online, it has more hoops to jump through and is less personal than local play. Without local, everyone needs to buy their own console/computer, copy of the game, and in the case of consoles, an online subscription to play multiplayer at all, even with friends. And you can't play in the same room as a friend without lugging your hardware to eachother's house.

Wanna play Overwatch with your sibling, spouse or kid you live with, but you play on PS4 and use a cheap laptop for work? Prepare to either a) buy two mid to high range laptops and a mouse for each, along with two digital copies of the game, or b) buy a second PS4, a second copy of the game, and a seperate ps plus subscription for them, while renewing your own sub if necessary, as well as hauling a second tv into the living room unless you wanna have to shout at eachother through the hallway.

you also need friends wich I don´t have

holy shit! it's the sock

No u

They aren't mutually exclusive though

But online also has drawbacks

And its fun being in the same room and you get no lag

He's not saying totally remove online multiplayer stupid -_-
He's saying still have it as an option. Id like very much to play halo 5 with my sisters but cant without buying another xbox... and TV.... and copy of halo....

Yeah but what about me? I have friends.

Also playing 4 player split screen was atrocious to look at

Get more real life friends. Holy shit.

Which is why it should be an option, just like online...

@RusDaddy this

@BananaPhoPhilly Only because the tech wasnt there. Now it is...

the main thing that annoys me is games that don't have split screen that used to. COD has maximum two player split screen. So many games could add in split screen for basically no effort and it would make it 1000X better, but they make you play online instead of being able to do both.

And the experience is worse. You're basically saying, not everyone has access to ice cream, therefore eating rice is a better experience. It's just false reasoning.

@Zym No couch coop is a far inferior experience than online play. It's why it's an after thought today for all but a small minority. That analogy you made made zero sense. False reasoning if you will.

@Ethan Matz "No couch coop is a far inferior experience than online play"

Agreed. Although ill go further and say all couch coop is superior to online.

OH YO IT'S JFJ YOOOOOO

That and 4 player split screen on a 12 inch TV is pretty painful

Yeah i went to a crappy school back then where kids didnt play pokemon or just didnt have ds's

He wasn't saying online multiplayer is bad or even worse than local. He's just discussing problems that stem from games being online only like feeling more isolated.

And I live alone in a rural area. I have since I was a kid. Back in the 90s online play was such a big deal to me for those reasons.

Then the need for better internet connections hit and it became my biggest bane. Rural area = satellite internet or dialup.

And lan is a thing of the past. Fucking steam version of Dawn of War actually removed that.

So the point is why can't we fucking have both?

Online is good, but the fact that us players need to pay for practically 0 added benefits other than the privelage to play. The option to have both would've been the godsend.

emp’s argument failed to take into account that you can have friend groups that don’t live in your neighborhood

yeah and just like with reddit it proved why certain people dont have friends to play with IRL in the first place

Ngl I was sad when I realized how much of my games actually lack "local multiplayer", like I was thinking "is it not even an option anymore?"

@Cornelius McMuffin Server based multiplayer is easily far more healthy and less toxic than matchmaking.

I have roblox servers to thank for meeting my oldest online friends. I'm still in contact with them today.

Local cowboy sock puppet knows what’s up

Same. I had no siblings and non of my friends played videogames or liked them. I used to dream about online multiplayer then I grew up and realised that as a woman that wasn't nearly as fun as I thought it would be.

Which is why games should have found a way to have BOTH online multiplayer and local multiplayer in the 2010s.

Yes, like GTA Online.

I think they were talking about online with strangers.

@JFJ Thank god for Parsec and Fightcade.

Dear god, guys seriously. ?

Doesn’t mean the industry should completely do away with local multiplayer. To do so is absurd.

As long as there’s human interaction there will always be a demand for local co-op.

Ethan Matz Inferior in what way? I always have infinitely more fun doing couch coop with my friends than online.

Do you mean quantity? Yes, of course it’s better. Quality? That’s more difficult. Online play experience is heavily determined by internet connection and the people you play. The first one you have to pay for, the second’s a toss up, most of the time landing on the toxic side.

@The Louster Yeah, multiplayer toxic it bring stress and uncontrolable emotion when local coop fun and joking around coop friend.

Simply Why Not Both?

I have only gone over to play video games (or hang out at all) at a friends house less than 50 times, and I grew up in the perfect era to do so, or maybe the era just after that.

what ruined online games is not them being online, but rather matchmaking. matchmaking is the cancer that killed game communities and made it impossible to organically make friends while playing games.

I think he meant more of the novelty aspect of local multiplayer.

Besides how many games are there in the present that still support split-screen other than Halo Infinite coming?

Absolutely. None of my acquaintances play video games so LAN just wouldn't be possible. Online play allows me to play with randoms.

they should live side-to-side

@O’Reilly Auto Parts Yeah it's pay to win

I wish there were more good big mobile games, like games where you buy it once and there are no ads, no micro transactions, just fun stuff like Bluetooth multiplayer and level editors, Mobile games like Labyrinth 2 and Badland had all of these things and those were like the 2 main games I played on my iPod as a kid, me and mou brother and my freinds would play on multiplayer on labyrinth 2, we didn’t have a computer or internet so it was hard to use the level editor on labyrinth 2 because you need a computer to use it and we only could play multiplayer games over Bluetooth

@Nicholas Kieler Have you tried Parsec? It works pretty darn good.

The main issue is, used to be you could choose between the two, now they make them near online exclusive. I remember playing split screen bo2 zombies with friends and having the time of my life, but now cod either doesn’t give you the option or you have to jump through 30 hoops to get there.

Same.
Some of my favourite game like Crash 2 and Pikmin 1 aren't usually long except maybe for Enter The Gungeon. Everything needs to end at some point for something else to begin, that's what makes life interesting.

Thank you for being an original person. Good comment.

to be honest i think thats a lot down to gamers, any AAA game that falls in under 60 hours of gameplay and infinite endgame just gets met with derision for not having 'enough content' - just cue the angry joe clips

that's why i really wish we had more games like shadows of mordor, the story is ok but everyone gets their own randomly generated enemies and the randomness combind with the nemesis system means you can make ur own story and extends the gameplay beyond just boring quests. orc tries to kill you because u killed his brother gets killed comes back to life goes mad and is now your new insane bodyguard.

nowadays seems like the closest thing we'd get is multiplayer padding or roguelites

I wanna take some time and analyze this some, not this comment particularly, just the sentiment. it's gonna be long so don't read this if you don't wanna discuss this.:

I believe that immersion can be broken up into two categories, and games usually fall into one of those two catagories.: Narrative Immersion and Mechanical Immersion. Individual players will usually favor games and franchises that have a focus on one of these types of immersion with breaks to experience the other type of immersion.

Narrative immersion is fairly obvious, they're games that have a focus on being an interactive story, and they'll emphasize as much. Starting the game up and losing yourself in a world and universe of good characters, writing, events and intrigue that, are more reminiscent of the joys of a good book. Games that really cater to the audience with this interest are games like Monkey Island, Sam and Max, Grim Fandango, and Maniac Mansion. A lot of point and click adventures fall into this catagory, but aren't stereotypical for narrative immersion as a whole, after all we have games like Bioshock(1,2, and Infinite), Assassin's Creed(1-3), and World of Warcraft that worked really well within this framework. Another genre that falls into this catagory has the fairly unkind description(as Ahoy has mentioned) of Walking Simulators.

Mechanical Immersion is one that isn't as obvious in it's description but is obvious in it's experience. Games that have engaging mechanics and gameplay but with less emphasis on story. Games like these are good at replicating what's called the Flow State. That experience that every player has gone through of playing so well yet being challenged enough, that in your mind the controls just melt away, the moment the world around you fades and the game becomes an experience in of itself, and the experience just comes naturally to you. Excellent examples of this are Guitar Hero, DDR, Rock Band, DOOM, Battlefield, CoD, Twisted Metal, Forza, Mario Kart, and Crash Team Racing amongst a plethora of others. This is where I prefer to hang my hat.

Games that have an end are easier to have an appreciation for, and are more likely to be remembered as works of art, just as we've seen with books. I feel that for a game to not have an end, it must deliver on a good mechanical immersion in order to ensure it's survival and/or be remembered fondly(weirdly enough, Quake has done this.). Narrative immersion would be impossible to achieve if there is no end to the game, because ALL stories must come to an end. it's just that in regard to multiplayer games, a lot of the business models we've seen implemented over the last decade or so have watered down the experience as a whole, making mechanical immersion much harder to achieve.

Yeah the fact a lot of modern multiplayer games have “seasons” where content can only be obtained once in the games life and never again forced me to grind for something I didn’t wanna grind for. I’m glad I stopped playing CTR Nitro Fueled

@Lord Jackass love this comment. I must say i am a HUGE sucker for fun movement systems. ODM from the attack on titan tribute game, bhopping from cs:go, janky tech from super mario world rom hacks, i love them a lot and yet they arent games designed to "end" necessarily

Check out Palia. If you like casual games that is... it's going to be a free to play multiplayer community game about finding why your human species has randomly disappeared from existance and then reappeared on Earth. There's ruins to explore, gardening, fishing, cooking, decoration, community driven fun such as making a town, gathering goods to sell, using gliders like in botw and I think there's hunting and taming. You get to have weapons such as bows I'm unsure if there will be monsters but there is a good chance...there might be some monsters against you when searching for the truth. Alchemy, magic, yada yada you get the idea. They are still in the alpha phase, however not sure if closed beta is next or alpha since they just had their pre-alpha very recently but they are up to speak with anyone regarding the game. I don't think they will just have humans as playable species, they might have a ton of those wierd gremlin people with pointy ears and purple, green, blue skin as either an unlockable or stage in their content. There could be phases to this "adventure" they are speaking of so it is best to be there at the start. However, again, do be aware they are not fully done with the game yet. Time will tell. Please be respectful and patient.

I dont know why but i always want to play the new assassins creed games until a few hours in i realiz again that its just not really fun. I played assassins creed odyssey for over 100 hours and im not even nearly finished with the main story. And i dont even have the full map discovered. It just so big but filled with the same brainless nonsence over and over. I dont think that i will ever be able to play that game till the end

Like how Crash Bandicoot 4 added in a metric fuckton of recycled levels and collectibles

Yeah, I can see why you'd say that.

Jak and Daxter 1 is one of the only games I completed 100%. I loved nearly every minute of it

Indie games are amazing

Indie games is where the old "Middle Simple Games" migrated to after the major companies dropped them.

Nah even if this was gaming best era nostalgia would still make old games expensive at a certain point

It's also funny how backwards compatability is now a major selling point of modern consoles, buy the new Xbox, to play the games you had on the old one with better graphics and performance. It's nice, but it's like putting an old engine in a brand new race car because the newer engines are too much of a headache to want to use. I should want to play the latest games on my new console, but I don't. That's a problem.

@Diego V Plus there are only so many NIB copies of any game, especially ones stored with the right level of care to appeal to collectors, and that number only decreases over time. Scarcity is a pretty effective market force, especially when it's not artificial.

Indie titles tend to offer more bang for buck, so I buy those in most cases.

Stick it to the capitalists.

That is why I stopped buying new games when they came on DVD. There is far too much space the designers just fill it with crap. Even a CD is a bit large, but a least 650MB concentrates the programmers mind a bit. Upscaled on a modern PC, PSX games are brilliant but Mega Drive is even better.

Right. What bloats game size are image files. The higher quality image, and more varied the textures, means you have to dedicate more and more storage as graphics get better and better. A game that can clever reuse textures will be smaller than a game that has different biomes and environments each with their own textures.

Retro-gaming is also a much more fun community.

@Frankie Crowley LMAO this is just bad reasoning

Graphics and nothing else

Yeah, Call of Duty 2 is still amazing. The russian campaign in particular. There's nothing quite like those sections where you crawl through trenches with tanks driving overhead or destroying that German-occupied building.
I just played the multiplayer for the first time a few days ago and was surprised to see there were still some people playing.

@_ gouda yeah CoD2 MP on PC has always had a decent little community. It's still really fun. I've played probably 2000+ hours on X360 and PC over the last 17 years.

My little brother and I thought we could play local split screen on Black Ops Cold War but apparently Activision didn’t finish it yet, even though there’s literally a split screen tab to click on in the menu. Lazy assholes.

I remember, my 2 brothers and I all had a DS and mario kart. One evening our parents took us to eat at a restaurant and at one point while waiting for them to finish their dessert we went to the game room, we all had our DS with Mario Kart and we started playing, then another kid and his sister entered the room, they also had DSs but only one cartridge for the both of them but it didnt mattered, we could all play together. We spent like an hour on the balloon battle mode duking it out before our parents were done with their meal. Nowadays i dont think i could do that with my switch even on mario kart 8 or mario party, i miss that feeling of "anywhere, anytime with anybody"

Check Rocket League and Gang Beasts

you should try ray man legends

Halo 5 removing split screen entirely made me not want to play it, because for me a significant part of the fun of games is playing with people (I can enjoy games with friends but hate playing them alone)

And if I have to buy TWO copies of a game, and (in the case of Halo 5) a SECOND console to play with my siblings, then I won't enjoy it as much.

Replayability (for me) is also pretty dependant on wether or not I can play with friends, I can play the same game for years and have just as much fun throughout if there's other people, and the easiest way to play with people I enjoy playing with is couch CO-OP.

Going back to Halo as an example, I have played Halos 1 through 4 several times over, going through the campaigns or messing around in Forge/custom gamemodes with my siblings (mostly through split screen), but I played the campaign of 5 once, and then never picked it up again because none of my friends own an Xbox/Halo 5.

Outward is a good splitscreen game on current gen, watch Sseth's video on it.

@Zedkiller1101 that looks like a mix of Dark souls and Skyrim, and it has split screen.


...I think I'm in love.

Maybe buy more games that support split screen. You shouldnt have too much trouble.

@CaptainSzasz the issue isn't not being able to play split screen games, the issue is that most modern games aren't split screen.

It's especially frustrating when game franchises used to have split screen, but removed it in the newest releases.

Switch bruh

Switch still has plenty of that, I play mario kart, smash, mario party, all the time with my friends.

@Jordan L. I played over 100 hours playing halo 4 with my family and friends and I got so sad when halo 5 didn’t even have split screen

steam. couch co-op

I’ve wanted to play splatoon 2 with other family and friends since I’ve bought it. But none of my friends either have a switch or have splatoon. Only one friend...

@MJGaming57 I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say that our hearts go out to you in what must surely be the most terrible experience of your life.

@metal wellington it’s not that bad but thank you

All I have to say is thank God for the MMC I got my friends playing halo it was great until the Fortnite nation attacked

this is why pc is the master race

I remember back as far as when my brother and I got a 360, and we thought we could play a split screen game together, and literally none of the games we had supported split screen, aside from like Madden which was really weird coming from the PS2

I'm the as you. Literally barely any games have split screen nowadays, I miss it :/. Dont get me wrong some games still have split screen, but it's just very limited

Diablo3 and Worms are cool. But i hate that nothing new comes out for couch co op

@Trüffeltroll 666 pc romhacks

@Kelper Moon I still have yet to finish that in local co-op, but only because my buddy and I put it down two years ago and I dropped him like a stone two weeks ago because, well, he's a fucking pussy who couldn't back himself up IRL, let alone his friends. Co-op's fun until the only friend you have to play with is the living embodiment of your place in life and the mindset that brought you there. We all have to grow up sometime.

That’s why you get an Xbox and play backwards compatible games with modern performance

the only ones we get is Lego and some Nintendo games, othetwise you have to turn to indie games

At least Nintendo still has some solid local multiplayer titles. Like Mario kart and smash

@Tzer that got nothin to do with local multiplayer

@wackyclock go play sm64 multiplayer and you will see
also emulators allow one to usetheir old multiplayer games once again

This was one of the reasons I ended up getting a switch.

Wanted to play gears of war 4 with my dad, had 2 offbrand controllers that had worked with all other games since I bought them.
But here you NEED xbox controllers otherwise you cant play co-op.

You are suffering from a condition called /v/ burn out.

13:50 since I've ever found this song, I never wanted less quality -wave.

@Altan Déméi Goddamn, that sounds like it was a blast. The videogame industry of the 2010s shit the bed HARD by thinking online multiplayer could completely replace local multiplayer.

Nintendo is the only one left doing this

No modern games that I have have local multiplayer. The Dreamcast is the last console that I have games with local multiplayer for. I ended up skipping the seventh generation console generation so I don't have a PS3 of Xbox 360. I have a Xbox One (have not been able to find a PS5 or Series X) and no game on it has local multiplayer.

Lol the PS3 isn't even that old unfortunately. Shows how quickly we've gone astray.

nintendo switch is pretty good for local multiplayer though

i live in a small town in a poor country and i'am one of the only people with a switch, it feels sad that i can't play splatoon 2 with someone, even if i had friends

Thankfully the re are local games on steam yay

Emulate N64, it's your only hope Obi Wan.....

That's literal bullshit lmao. There's a ton of multiplayer games you can play on PS4, when my brother bought one we'd split screen BO3 when it was first out, 2K and Borderlands 2. Your sister probably didn't wanna play the games you had, or the ones you could find because I will admit they don't have as many local multiplayer games as the older consoles but stop the cap 🧢

@iCheckered also most fighting games have local multiplayer in my experience

@wackyclock you could play LAN gmod, minecraft, heck even doom. Use zandronum for doom

@Tzer You could customize it like a car. It could run most games, depending on your pc specs. I think you're right about this

@Larry Sellers LMAO are you serious? Thats fucking crazy. Activi$ion has just continued to dig their own grave deeper and deeper,but.... is this your homework, Larry?

@TheJRMproductions True. The switch actually does have a good amount of local co-op. Maybe Nintendo is the only company in this space that values those sort of experiences?

@MJGaming57 I think a big part of that has to do with motion controls and the player experience in Splatoon requiring both high visibility vertically and horizontally, that most people achieving by flicking around with motion control constantly, and you just can't do a good job replicating that experience when you need to show two POVs on the same 16:9 screen. You'd likely need two Pro controllers as well, adding the kind of friction to the multiplayer experience Nintendo seems to be avoidant of. Just imagine getting fucking trolled by rollers landing on you and coming from right next to you because you have no situational awareness, or people ulting you from off-screen, you can't hear the sound cue from the ult properly, people hiding in ink that you don't notice cause your FOV is so small. It would be a nightmare. It's also incredibly dependent on sound cues that are even better when you wear a headset. I could see the single player levels being playable split-screen with diminished quality of the player experience but the head-to-head multiplayer would be busted for sure. I do wish they had split-screen unlimited salmon run tho, even if you got no rewards for it.

games that have multiplayer function on consoles that are actually modern:

Minecraft, Many nintendo games(not mii) such as mario party, racing games from nintendo such as mariokart, mario tennis. Honestly you just have to look for something in this day and age... it isn't all pretty, but it gets the job done. Minecraft is given great views since it has tons to do, tons of content, still being updated to this day, and literally there are fucking mushroom cows and golems with big noses...why wouldn't you play this game.

@MJGaming57 I feel you I have 2 game friends but both live in different places.

@Tzer just went the mame launchbox route myself, good stuff.

I speak of experience when I say "I'd rather have online multiplayer than local exclusive." sighs in Wild Guns Reloaded

Yeah, gold standard games like COD 4, and Halo 3 (both made in 2007) I'd say were the main reasons for the online multi-player trend, atleast on console.

Tbh yeah cause in the og battlefront that i have theres a white online thing at the bottom

What's the song that plays during that part?

@The Pope Of Dope Big Apple, 3AM from TMNT 4: Turtles In Time on SNES ):

@Swarley751 thx

Dunkey, Jerma and of course Emp are the only ones I can think of

Why does AAA need a hole teared into it? Some of the best games of all time have been AAA of the past 5 years

I actually audibly laughed at this comment.

emplemon is monke confirmed

monke time

I don't understand why he says that about the revolution... I mean, what were its consequences that led to a disaster for the middle market game industry? It just doesn't make sense from my point of view.

@Joshua Bennett I'm sad you've been brainwashed into believing that lmao

@Joshua Bennett some of the worst game practices also came from AAA titles

@Joshua Bennett Lmao no. There have been a mere handful of good games here and there, like Witcher 3 which was a good RPG but certainly not one of the best of all time (unless your idea of a roleplaying game is a game where you play the role of a character that's been written out for you and you're only allowed to choose their mood at any given time and maybe their beard length).

@chrispo nah..... the real bad gacha stuff is small groups of people trying to make a quick buck

@Fail Fort oh boo hoo. So sad I get to play my

Spider-Man PS4
Doom Eternal
Sekiro
Mario Maker 2
Astral Chain
Borderlands 3
DMC5
Fallen Order
Outer Worlds
Monster Hunter
God of War
Smash Bro’s
Hitman 2
and Sea of Thieves! Sorry I enjoy good games

@Just a guy indie games with potentially hundreds of hours of gameplay might have displaced the middle market because they are still relatively expensive to develop but now have to share the spotlight.

@Beef Supreme you’re limiting the scope to appear more right. Emp did the same thing by using the NASCAR genre as his example of things are worse. Even then you have stuff like Divinity 2 and POE 2 for story RPGs. And plenty of games when it comes to Diablo likes.

@Joshua Bennett Good job listing games that are not as good as the best of the 2000s. Or indies in general.
Putting BL3 in there is particularly hilarious since it's so fucking shit compared to BL2.

Sea of Thieves lmao

I didn't say there were only bad games released in modern times, Monster Hunter World in particular has, like, my favorite gameplay out of any game, but the majority of games listed here are definitely not "best of all time" material. Fallen Order loses hard to Dark Souls 1 and so does Sekiro. Honestly Hitman 2 and Sea of Thieves don't even belong in a "best of the month" list.

Also you have to be REALLY fucking stupid to not see the bad monetization practices in a lot of modern AAA. Just look at Activision Blizzard and EA.

@Fail Fort theres just as bad monetization in Indie games as well. The best indies have good monetization, and the best AAA have good monetization. Also Sekiro is way better then DS1, Fallen Order doesn’t have to be the vest game ever, games are mostly about fun.

Sea of Thieves launched bad but they did fix it post launch, which I would not prefer over a complete launch. But it’s a privilege that we live in an age where a game can be fixed and improved for free after launch instead of just dropping and forgetting.

Also BL3s only flaw is the story. Everything else is better then BL2, miles better? No, but BL2 is a high bar and on the gameplay side they def passed it.

Imagine an industry that subjects people to video games that make them terribly unhappy, then gives them the microtransactions to take away their unhappiness. Science fiction? It is already happening to some extent in our own industry... Instead of removing the conditions that make video games suck, the modern video game industry gives them microtransactions. In effect, microtransactions are a means of modifying an individual's already purchased video game experience in such a way as to enable him to tolerate such video games that he would otherwise find intolerable.

-emp Lemzynski

Time to return to monke then

Wait, is this a play on The Unabom Manifesto

Manny Pardo The Edgy I can’t have an opinion based around evidence

@Joshua Bennett example of AAA company making gacha shit: fire emblem heroes

AAA do it too

@Fail Fort liking a game = brainwashed I guess

@Fail Fort 19:50

@Joshua Bennett Some AAA companies are only just now starting to get over their obsession of competing with Minecraft, yet most are chasing Fortnite now.

@Joshua Bennett Imagine thinking those were good games, couldn't be me.

4nt what games competed with Minecraft? And only a few companies have their own BRs. However they still have other games coming out. It’s just an extra FREE game to play if you want to. I see no problem with that.

Lord_Of_Aether imagine thinking those were bad games. Couldn’t be me

Nice argument man 👍

@Spiderham55 That isn't exactly what they were saying, they said that games with microtransactions employ brainwashing tactics. I myself have done some research on the subject, and I've even found many of the games Joshua Bennett put on their list to use those very same tactics, like paying youtubers and critics to play those games and review them well, and constantly running ads on games.

@Joshua Bennett Think of your own arguments, and Fortnite isn't really free, as most of its content is locked behind microtransactions. Also, many games competed with Minecraft, I don't know if you're old enough to remember it though, as the heyday of the "war" was around 2012-2015. This is when many games were trying to take the crown from Minecraft, The 2 most prolific being Roblox, which still has a decent following today, and Fortnite, which only came around in 2017, but managed to take the #1 spot from Minecraft for some time, before it's decline in 2019.

Lord_Of_Aether think of a better argument. If that argument can be immediately turned around and still be right, it’s not a good argument.

And most of those MC clones aren’t AAA. And Fortnite is by all definitions free to play. You don’t have to spend any money

@Joshua Bennett I see that you are, to nicely put it, a "Microtransaction Apologist". Fortnite isn't truly free to play, because you have to pay for items, skins, and even game modes, if you want to use them. There is also little way for most people to avoid said microtransactions because of some deceitful tactics, i.e. "Everyone wants the new *insert item name here*" and "You don't want to look like a noob, do you?".

Lord_Of_Aether sure whatever you say pal. A free to Play game has to make money somehow. And honestly I would take MTXs over DLCs (WoW) or subscriptions (Runescape) any day of the week

Lord_Of_Aether Then people are dumb. Micro transactions are ALWAYS a choice to buy, unless you’re a child and you don’t know better. In a game like Rainbow Six: Siege, i can play the game without ever spending micro transactions and have a good time. But me spending money on r6 credits so I can buy a battle pass is my decision, and I was not compelled or forced with a gun to my head to buy it. Micro transactions are scummy, but at the end of the day, it’s ultimately your decision to spend money on them.

@vaporwavedreamman Well Fortnite's main player base is made up of children who don't know any better, and to be fair, I've seen multiple adults fall for those very tactics. I'm not necessarily going against the idea of microtransactions and paid DLC as a whole, I'm just against how the tactics used to sell them are deceitful, manipulative, and often even addictive. I'm saying this because video games are a huge part of my life, and I would wish for them to not be controlled by large companies like Google and EA, who only use care about it for their own gain.

well, success of Starcraft 2 and World Of Warcraft has killed both strategy and mmorpg genres.

@Joshua Bennett I think AAA has gone to shit, but that's a good list so you made me re-evaluate my opinion. I think the big difference now versus before was that AAA companies were consistently good, and that the very act of being a AAA product was an indication that it was good. I literally did not anticipate a single one of those games being good before they came out.

I think much of the resentment, or perhaps just mine, comes from a feeling of betrayal. There is no such thing as a safe pick in the market anymore, and AAA used to be that safety. Also I mostly play pretty obscure genres, so admittedly a lot of my bias comes from simple bandwagoning too.

DrunkMasochist I will admit the market is a lot more inconsistent. But I still think there’s the same amount of good stuff being made. But even then you had stuff Sonic 06, Bubsy 3D, Nuts and Bolts, Big Rigs, etc. even the worst AAA games today have potential and a lot of strengths.

Anthem did a lot right and plenty more wrong

@Joshua Bennett , Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal have nowhere near the mods that Doom I, Doom II, and Final Doom contain. Seriously, a video game that is almost thirty years old has far more mods, and even complete user made games, than either of the newest entries in the Doom franchise. Do you really think that Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal are going to have that kind of staying power thirty years from now? I seriously doubt that your argument holds water.

Pax Humana keyword “30 year old games” of course they’re gonna have more mods. People have had thirty years to toy around with those games. People know the code in and out. And a games quality isn’t dictated by modding potential. It’s dictated by quality.

“Emp Kaczynski was right and we should’ve listend” -Random Gamer in 2045

@Lord_Of_Aether My brother played a ton of Fortnite, and I don't remember any content being locked behind microtransactions. Skins aren't content. And Roblox predates Minecraft for at least 3 years, sure they might have competed but Roblox wasn't released as a response to Minecraft. Fortnite was gunning for PUBG's seat, not Minecraft.

@Lord_Of_Aether "Fortnite isn't truly free to play, because you have to pay for items, skins, and even game modes" - You don't have to use skins. Can you tell us about these game modes though?

@Beef Supreme well...of the whole decade yeah... they certainly have released some of the best games ever

@Real Human Bean franchise milking fatique and pervasive microtransactions? that wasn't on minecraft though

@Beef Supreme also as crazy as it sounds...still gotta keep in mind games like skyrim which already has aged were still considered really great when it first released

Kayvee id agree on sea of thieves as it’s really deep as a puddle wide as an ocean(pun intended) but hit man is pretty good albeit hard to appreciate if it isn’t your type of game.

@Fail Fort how is smash or spider man not as good as prior games? no one has mentioned it yet but...both red dead redemption games this decade. gta 5. skyrim is more older now even if not as old as red dead redemption one but it is still good.

@Fail Fort also portal 2

@Joshua Bennett eh...I don't see how indie games really have bad monetization reakky

Jayden C not the popular ones. But there’s tons of Early Access trash and clickbait garbage. You just don’t hear about them

@Joshua Bennett eh...ok maybe...I can see that really. for the most part it isn't that much or often and certainly not as big as how certain triple A games go about bad monetization

@Fail Fort I meant like...best in there respective series atleast lol.

2015-2020 really wasn't that bad...2017 is considered one of the best years in gaming in fact

RDR 2? you could be the one spreading misinformation...honestly I haven't played most of the games being discussed before but im going off at least general consensus which is important and hey at least I played smash .

@Fail Fort also you right he DID say 5 years....games mentione weren't really bad though...the last one game though? eh...that one is considered more mixed

Joshua Bennett
What best games of all time? All I can tell is like, DOOM eternal. The rest of it just seems like low risk investments.
Edit: oh so only 10 games in 5 years?
Yeah buddy look at the sea of other AAA garbage that spews out.

@Real Human bean how is doom eternal not low risk investment? and spider man? last time I checked it's been a while since there was a spider man game.god of war? I heard that really shoke things up. smash bros? b*tch please that ain't low risk putting every character and almost every stage from the whole series in ONE game

Real Human bean HUH? That’s in the past 2/3 years. Although I’m giving 2020 a bit of a pass cause of fucking CORONAVIRUS and the new consoles coming up

@Jayden C honestly would say 2017 by itself is better than the second half of the 2000s in terms of S-tier masterpiece games

@chrispo perhaps

Joshua Bennett
Idk man this shit started since watchdogs bro

@Joshua Bennett most of those games don’t have pervasive microtransactions, thankfully

TREEPEL AYYYYE

@Pax Humana "Do you really think that Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal are going to have that kind of staying power thirty years from now?"
Well if they release the source code like john carmack did for 1993 doom yeah.

@Joshua Bennett shitty business practices, unoriginal, unfinished, buggy and unfun games, pay to win crap, etc.

@Person that can be applied to every generation

@Joshua Bennett yes but they’ve gotten more common recently and games are somehow getting even more expensive despite that. Your wrong if you genuinely think AAA games have gotten better because they haven’t.

@Person I never said they got better, but they haven’t gotten worse. It all depends on what you prefer. Personally if I were rank the console generations it would be

1. SNES/Genesis
2. PS2/GameCube
3.PS3/360/Wii
4.NES
5.N64/PS1

Not including PS4/Switch/Xbox1

@Joshua Bennett w r o n g

@Fanny you know you do make a compelling point

@Beef Supreme cdproject mentioned that only 6% of people who played the game actually made it to the end.

@Joshua Bennett Shill harder, you're not making it obvious enough that you've been paid off

@Fail Fort what? I can’t here you from up that perch that you’re using to look down on me

However you weren’t looking at me
You looked at my *reflection*!
Because the actual me is looking down on you!

@dylan w. same as league of legends yeah

@Fail Fort I don’t know why this person can’t see the issue with AAA games but there were some really good games listed there and they’re right, there have been great AAA games released in recent years. Fallen Order might not be as good as DS1 or important, but I don’t think it was trying to be. It was just a solid Star Wars game with Metroidvania and Souls in its DNA but it takes its derivative elements and became something I thought was kinda special. It’s not a masterpiece, but it was definitely a good and worthwhile experience.

@Pax Humana this was back when source code was just released for games like that, but I certainly would like mod support for 2016 and Eternal at some point. Those games are never going to be as important or influential as the classics, but honestly they never were trying to be, just keeping certain old school shooter philosophies going and furthering them with new ideas.

Id consider this problem #1. Video games always needed to be profitable, but now they need to be EVEN MORE profitable, year after year. Got a guy with passions? Fuck him, get him off the team, we need a yes-man. Look at Cyberpunk, the creators KNEW the game was broken as fuck and nowhere near ready for release. Arguably they were mismanaged if it took 8 damn years to make a finished game but still, back in the day they would just push back release because they wanted to make a good game. But Cyberpunk was profitable before it even hit the market because of the hype. The company literally couldnt care less if it failed. Worse case scenario, they sell the company to fuckin EA for a quarter billion dollars, go home with a cool $5mil bonus, and walk away as the developers get paid dogshit for being part of the "team that bungled Cyberpunk."

@Skeets McGrew CD Projekt are one of the few companies with people at the top who are actually passionate about distributing and creating great games... It's like complaining about Rockstar Games. They made a mistake and they acknowledged it and refunded anyone who wanted one. Complain about companies who make the same bullshit game year after year adding little to the product, companies like EA and Activision are the real culprits.

@ash why are you shifting blame as if people don't blame EA and Activision for their horseshit too? Surely by now you must know that your entire argument is the reason these companies don't give a shit and will release buggy unfinished games because people such as yourself will still defend them because they made a game you loved in the past. Idk how many times I've seen this exact conversation happen and here you are proving that there's no end in sight to fans giving companies passes.

Open your eyes man, Activision and EA and especially blizzard used to make fantastic games until they didn't. We gave them excuses because we didn't want to accept that shits changed and sure enough they abused our trust and loyalty until we ended up at this point where ppl like me have to explain to ppl like you who still try to hold on to hope that the next time will be different. Cdpr is supposed to be different somehow because the witcher was good yet they managed to make the same mistakes as their competitors continue to do to this day and you're giving them a pass bc it was their first time?

Hold them accountable for their bullshit and maybe, just maybe, they won't keep fucking it up over and over in the future. I have zero expectations that it'll ever be great again in gaming anytime soon but giving free passes for bullshit needs to end because it gives them more reason not to do any better.

We're all tired of it man, I basically play single player games or indie stuff these days but I spend 95% less time gaming and it's not because I've grown older but because gaming has gone corporate and it's just the same old recycled shit or just plain bugged out garbage that asks you for money every time you play. It's all remasters too since they're too afraid to take risks on anything new, just like movies. Entertainment in general is just a shitshow and now I realize I'm rambling in frustration so I'm just gonna end this rant here.

@V You have to give them the pass. EA, Activision, Blizzard all got the pass the first time bro it's like if Tarantino made a bad movie after Pulp Fiction u wouldn't be like "oh he's shit" you would wait for the next movie. The great filmmakers are all old now and the younger generation of writers/directors make great tv shows. The well never runs dry for great content, there's no need to play/watch new stuff all the time if you want to play/watch great stuff all the time.

@ash they blatantly lied about the game running surprisingly well on last gen consoles, they knew the game was an unfinished buggy mess that the testers or whatever group they got to play the game before release said the game probably wouldn't be ready until 2022(and that was for pc) and I guarantee you there was some analysts who said ok the game isn't finished but there's so much hype and loyal customers who believe in this company from our witcher series and did the math ending up deciding that there would be more ppl who wouldn't refund than not or maybe they just said fuck it release it anyways.

I mean how are we gonna give them a pass for that? It's like if you are working on a presentation for your job right and that presentation is for a huge client that your business desperately needs and you keep telling your boss yeah its going so good I'm gonna have it finished next week, we're gonna land those clients and you just hype the fuck out of it and your boss says great I will have them fly in next week for your presentation. And when it's presentation time you walk in there drunk with a shit presentation, a bad half assed pitch and your slides don't work so you just wing it and it goes overwhelmingly bad and the clients leave and never want to do business with your company again. Do you think your boss would give you another chance for the next big client? Shit he probably would just fire you.

The way that mess was handled should give you a good indication that they don't care about their fans and customers and this whole debacle was just a test to see how bad it really would be if they did the same shit those other companies do.

I believe it was something like more than half of the original devs from the witcher series already left the company and they just pump out contractors these days so how can we expect for them to not release another buggy mess next time. When long time devs leave the company the same way we've seen at other companies like blizzard, the games end up what they are these days. Soulless cashgrab garbage. I'm glad a lot of ppl are holding these companies accountable and just aren't playing those games anymore because they know it's just a waste of time and money.

I hope you're right and I'm wrong about cdpr but only time will tell. I won't be holding my breath though.

​@V The games industry is just how it is you can't really expect everyone else to have their shoes made in China and not do the same in your company. It's shitty to it's staff just like every other big game company, maybe not to the same extent, maybe to a greater extent but shitty nonetheless. That doesn't take away from the product being their 1st miss-step so far. Not all cash-grabs are inherently soul-less.

@ash fair enough, I guess we can just revisit this conversation when the next witcher comes out lol see you in a few years 😄

That's why I basically only support indie games. I refuse to pay microtransactions and 80 dollars for a buggy glitchy unfinished mess with no soul.

And these big companies kill small ones by purchasing them and there rights to there games and make them over work to then just release a bad game that could have been good but then decides to shut them down because sales weren't good?... It's sick.

Depressing

Back then it has been companies, now it's corporations.

Now it's all about pushing a social agenda

This is not true. Nintendo got into video games because they saw it as the future. They made playing cards, both traditional Japanese and Western style. When the owner who inherited the business had bigger dreams, he visited the Bicycle factory in America. He was not impressed by what he saw as the pinnacle of his industry, so he decided to change the focus of his family business. First he settled on toys, and it was Miyamoto of all people who had not even created a toy, but a little extendo arm tool to make his job easier. The owner saw that as potential for a toy, and it was.
With the arcade industry beginning to boom, he retooled his business to profit off of that trend, with none other than Miyamoto as the man he left in charge. He was the first 'game developer' with no computer background, and created a game with an emphasis on a playful story, as well as an artistic design, which had never been done before. I won't go on, but the rest is history. The only othr factor was that the company also had the foresight to notice a market void, a weird circumstance where there was an ENTIRELY intact and lucrative market with no company to cater to them, the console market . The console market was dominated by America, and very healthy in the 70's with LOTS of competition, but one company was better than the rest, and the industry became a monopoly. Rather than market conditions, Atari died to one of the most moronic decisions ever made in the entire history of the gaming industry, and since it was the only player left, took the entire industry with it, leaving a perfectly healthy market filled with customers willing to shell out money, but no one to make what they wanted. I guess American companies were spooked, first by Atari's massacre of it's competitors, then watching Atari itself self-implode, but Japan saw nothing but optimism, as they should have. Nintendo wasn't the only Japanese company to notice this, but they were the first to the punch.
This is Nintendo's story. It's probably the most well known because of how interesting and long their history is, but Sega wasn't much different (SEGA has a MUCH shadier past though). I can think of a few companies founded by genuinely passionate gamers that started some truly great studios (that suck now), but the main driver has always been profit. The reality now is that it is the CONSUMER'S fault. You dumbasses keep preordering games and getting shitty products, and the developers won't stop until you do. Back in the day, gamers were young, and were either minors short on cash, or young adults who needed to be shrewd when they shelled out 50 bucks (90 dollars today). Some state-of-the-art games (like one of the Genesis Phantasy Star games) cost EVEN MORE because of the hardware in the carts, sometimes up to 200 (almost 400 today)! If games went back to costing 100+ dollars, (they won't, yet some will still spend 1000's on DLC), you bet your ass the expectations of the average gamer would skyrocket.

The good and also bad part is, that this passion has shifted to indie game studios, because with todays video game market, even single people can create and sell games. The bad part is that these indie studios cant always reach their ambission and that their games dont reach the size of AAA games; the creative and passionate games we knew from the early 2000s are too big already and we end up being stuck with mostly small, but creative and innovative games and big and stale games.
Luckily sometimes the management lets their devs loose and you get some passionate/innovative games, like Alien Isolation or Death Stranding.

@ash by that logic we would have given them more passes than an average football season. You try and make the argument that cd project red care about games and rockstar doesn't. That is clearly false by the comparative quality of their games at launch. Rockstar gives a playable product. I'm not saying rockstar is not without fault and that we should praise them. Im saying in the new age of games that come out they have figured out that making complete products is more profitable

@ash The reason these companies do this is because they have people like you shilling for them. No, it wasn't just a mistake and I doubt the people at the top are passionate at all. They pushed out Cyberpunk when it was nowhere close to ready because they wanted to cash in on the hype.

​@V Honestly tho. Cyberpunk even running on PS4/Xb1 is surprising itself. They're turning 10 next year. PS4 Pro is already 5 years old. I thought they'd go straight for next-gen.

Also, haven't encountered any serious problems since the release. It played EXACTLY like any other game in last 10 years. As if BF, CoD, GTA, Assassin's Creed and every other game don't come with their share of bugs on release. Don't see people complaining and demanding a refund when they buy those games.

Maybe there shouldn't be gaming companies at all.

It feels like most of the newer games were made by soulless robots who tried and failed to recapture the glory days or whatever

What of indie titles?

Play Independent games.

They are cheaper for the most part, too.

Abso-fucking-lutely. Summarized as fuck. Nice job dude.

Just find the people who are still working for passion. They're out there.

Yeah that's a problem with the internet

Right, Monster Hunter's been on one hell of a roll, hasn't it? Can't think of many other games that have just been getting better and better.
Even fantastic series like Devil May Cry had 2 and the reboot to pretend don't exist, even if every game aside from them have been getting greater with each installment.
You could argue that Etrian Odyssey III was the best in the series due to some conventions being exclusive to it such as the Shin Megami Tensei-style endings. Speaking of Shin Megami Tensei, I think the mainline SMTs have been overall pretty damn good. I don't think they've had a bad hit in the main series yet. Then again, IV Apocalypse is a bit divisive...
You said Monster Hunter was "one of" the game franchises you feel have just continually improved, right?
I'm curious to hear if there are a few others!

@CrackedMateria honestly I think that’s it tbhp

broke: monster hunter
woke: monster girl quest

@Misha600 respectfully, no.

@xv Agreed.

@xv disrespectfully, yes.

@Misha600 respectfully, no, that would tank the game and plus we already have games like that it wouldn’t improve MH at all would detract from the base game itself

@Trouble in large numbers yes!!

@CrackedMateria The DmC reboot was good though...

@Honesty Your username doesn't even remotely apply. Nobody thinks that. Not a soul on this planet thinks that.

@CrackedMateria not really? I mean I've obviously not seen anyone say it was the best, but I've seen many say it was decent. good isn't much of a stretch from there.

Another one is probably the Zelda franchise.

@Sir Pancake Zelda's definitely had a few outright misses.

@CrackedMateria I’m not sure about outright misses. That seems a bit harsh. Also can you give some examples

@Sir Pancake Well, certainly. Though I love Zelda II, it's collectively agreed upon by a majority of the fans, and even the developers, as the worst game in the series. I would call that an outright miss. Tri-Force Heroes is straight up forgettable, has next to no actual content, and doesn't even properly work unless you have friends locally. The CD-i games all outright sucked. And probably the hottest take here: Majora's Mask 3D straight up didn't function properly, because they changed how movement works without changing the actual environments built around the original movement, the most egregious examples being Great Bay and how swimming works now, and Woodfall and that weird added acceleration time on Deku, making certain areas ridiculous to traverse, like that one area where there is literally not enough space to get a running start to make it to the first lilypad, and to go backward to attempt to make that space would be to hit the loading zone and leave the area. The music is haphazardly smeared in reverb and the atmosphere of the original game may as well be nonexistent.

@CrackedMateria I agree with Zelda II, but I personally really liked tri force heroes, and do the Phillips games even count, and remakes don’t really matter of the original was good. I do agree with all critiques tho.

​@Sir Pancake To ask whether or not the Phillips CD-i games counts would be akin to asking if Guilty Gear Isuka, Deus Ex Human Revolution, Kingdom Hearts BBS, or Pokemon Sword count. In some cases here, different teams. In some cases, completely different company. In all cases, every one of these games are things that at some point existed in each of their respective series' real life history. So, yeah, I think they should count.

After all, we can't just start picking and choosing, or that'd eliminate the point. Once we start making special exceptions for remakes or games officially handed off to another company to work on, can we REALLY say that we've considered EVERY game?

If the CD-i Zelda games were, in a stranger universe, some of the best Zelda games that were ever made, it wouldn't matter to everyone that they weren't developed by Nintendo's leading team like its source material. It'd be treated like the Oracle games and Minish Cap, which were all handled by Capcom instead.

So, for the sake of objectivity, if a game in a series existed, it's to be mentioned. This includes Majora's Mask 3D and the Phillips CD-i games.

Well competition does breed innovation. But competition is spare and most of my fav games are either older or from indi studios that don't belomg to the publisher-developer-media cartel.

Off topic normie meme thing ir what ever(if you think i am feel free)


Gran turismo fans(gt):o boy i cant wait fot gt sport

Gt sport goses on sale

Gt fans:almost all cars have interiors and online but what about more cars and tracks

Devs of gt:will be added in updates and no dlc

Gt fans:updates what is that no 1000 cars and 100 tracks whaaaaa

Gt7:is new gt4

Gt fans: o boy i cant wait

Gt 7 come out:10/10

Gt8 ends up like gt sport

Thats how is it end up

@Tim Teller try some nice AAA games that arent cod and shit. Dark souls 3, Metro Exodus, and Deus Ex are fantastic, but people seem to act like there arent any good AAA games that have released in the past 10 years lol.

Not into Dark Souls or other games like it but I loved Metro and I do play lots of "older" AAA games as I said. Like Borderlands 2 or BF3.

I don’t necessarily agree with emp. So many amazing games are coming out in recent years. If I only had access to the 8 to 32 generations I probably wouldn’t like games as much as I do. Most people don’t want to admit this but around 90% of 8 bit games don’t hold up and about 70% of 16 bit aren’t worth playing either

fucking ea buying put licenses

the gaming industry is the way it is because of copyright and other such anti-competitive regulations. buying out the competition is impossible in an economy where the cost of entering the market are low, and impossible to profit off of without taking advantage of the government. also, the mainstream gaming industry has been corrupt for over a decade, if there were more incentives for competition, the collusion between journalists and publishers would be unstable, forcing them to recognize who their real consumers are.

At least a new game can be made if the old one dies

Marcus Borderlands
I don’t think anyone is saying AAA games are all shit, it’s just that the amount of AAA released proportional to the good one is awfully low.

@Crushingon Hence why Indie Games are on the rise, because it's simply a bunch of passionate people with their own vision. Not some stuffy, out of touch corporate suits.

@joseaca only when you and the competition didn't share an exclusive government license. In the modern world, EU-centric copyright regulations mean that a handful of media megaconglomerates like Disney can own the rights to basically every piece of material that goes mainstream. Nothing gets created in a vacuum, so the vast majority of new ideas get squelched due to bearing too much resemblance to the ever expanding list of eternally off limits products which increasingly represent the average creator's entire pool of experience.

Competition is just the transitionary stage to monopolization.

@Robert Bektas This is such a strong argument to me. I don't get how EMP can do a twitter poll, still get a 10% discrepancy against his claim, and still push that a lot of people prefer old games. And then he goes on to list a bunch of things they're giving up that they probably didn't even consider, making a solid argument for why you SHOULDN'T go for nostalgia over what is obviously a better deal. Wow, you get to play Wii Sports and Club Penguin, how soulful those games are. If only there was a genre of game that filled such a hole that blew up in the 2010s. Oh and to be honest, on his NASCAR point I think he is drastically underplaying the impact triple A tier graphics have on a consumer. Even if you showed someone from 2003 a game like Asphalt 9 I'm sure they'd flip their shit.

"I'd rather be AN option, rather than THE option"

Nothing’s stopping them from doing something new but without material competition, nothing is encouraging them to do anything different.

Ayyyyyyyyyyyyy first reply

Wait you're still alive?



wHeRe ArE tHe GuN pArOdIeS?

holy shit he still exists

wHErE gUN pARoDieS

Yeah lol blast from the past

iNUT

Another dead verified account lol

@Henry Crabs he just lurkin

THANK YOU, the name was on the tip of my tongue and it was bugging the hell out of me. I wonder what its creator went on to do.

post again

I hate when people assume the game will be good or bad based on trailers, especially after cyperpunk bombed and Halo infinite was not bad after months of opposite preemptive expectations

But once a indie developer acted toward triple A games, the cycle continued.

@h_grunt Grow up, pick up a football.

I agree. For instance a game I have played for so many hours is kerbal space program. Its a simple physics sandbox where you make spaceships and explore the solar system or you can do whatever you want. Its this open ended concept that keeps the game exciting with a simple loop of design, test, rework, and complete the mission.

@El Nacho Stop playing vidja games and start playing egg ball games. Fantasy football = DnD for jocks.

yeah i've spent countless hours just playing small indie games. you should see my itch.io library.

@El Nacho New thing bad, old thing good

Most indies are still lacking professionalism and budget of the 2000's mid-tier games but their heart is in the right place.

@El Nacho how about you grow up and quit judging other people's hobbies

Oh yeah risk of rain 2 phasmophobia shoppe keep 2 subnautica rivals of aether shovel knight. Back to back masterpieces, and let’s not forget Minecraft the most loved indie game so far

@h_grunt they do grow into companies, but a lot of them still stick to putting effort into games and listen to fans, not a lot changes except they get a bigger budget

But most are 2d.... so🤷‍♂️

@NoahBoi04 "Stop judging other people Hobbis"---An anime fan

@Arthur Atanazio wew nice one, so original, 10/10

@NoahBoi04 Why all Otakus always Waiting us to be the New Shakespeare or some shit?
I don't need to have superior study or art knowledge to say this kind of cultura and industry sucks,mostly because the own genre and ur own cliche comment says a Lot of this

@h_grunt Not really, it's up to the devs. Some devs or small studios aren't interested in growing, just in making better games.

They are mostly platformers though.

@Arthur Atanazio and I don't expect you to, that's just a low blow that I've already seen done a million times by now. I can't stand when people pull the "anime pfp" card because it's such a weakass argument and makes no sense outside the context of saying it ironically/as a joke

@NoahBoi04 So, saying ur tastes are bads has no sense in a discussions about tastes??

@El Nacho i have no one to play football with, and that makes me sad

@Sho I think some of them have some pretty good budgets, some of the most popular games of this decade have been from indie devs with a reasonable budget

You a lie. Most indie games I see in console shops are absolutely garbage, but on PC ... Indies slap.

I was waiting for EmpLemon to mention it, perhaps to highlight how far the industry has fallen. But he never did

And then it gets ruined by deviantart

@Arthur Atanazio ...what is so bad about anime? sure there are some odd balls but do you actually genuinely think the west has anything good?

Can i just list the shows/movies/comics/bo- or just franchises in general that were ruined by America, the fastest woke in the west?
Terminator
Star trek
Charlie's angels
Last of us
Men in black
Wonder woman
Batwoman
Star wars
Captain Marvel
Ghost busters
X-men
Marvel comics
Dc comics
Bond franchise
Dr. Who
and many many more i cant remember from the top of my head.

Im not excusing japan relying on their niche too much and gave birth to an uncountable amount of harem isekai titles, but you got to fucking admit theres no other choice when the west is balls deep into this circle of jerk of "White men bad!". I'd rather pick something that isnt afraid of expressing itself i mean the west LITERALLY attacked "Joker", one of the greatest films of this decade, just because its was a white man lead.

@poggers calm down and eat a bread 🍞

Better now? OK.

Mega Man 11 is a thing

Indie titles are the future of quality gaming

There is a lot of them on PS Vita

Silksong HYYYPPPPEEE!!!!

Eh....

Most indie games are boring and too short. Not as good as Spiderman PS4 or Bloodborne.

I can see why most indie games are financial failures. Most of them are boring except Cuphead 🤭

Dark Souls is superior

Guys we got a triple a agent here.

I know you like Hollow knight . try Katana ZERO then . I am sure you will like it .

yes

@Crono you dont look too far do you

@Crono and most of them arent

Crono There are still good indie games out there, such as Enter the Gungeon and Hollow Knight

Jason Witch Fan Account yeah that’s true lol.

@Foekoe Until they become sex offenders looking to push an agenda.

I probably would have quit video games if it wasnt for the indie stuff being produced, which as far as gameplay goes, shits all over 99.9% of the 'AAA' stuff.

Unfortunately, even indie games can fall into this catagory. You either die a Scott Cawthon or Eric Barone, or you live long enough to see yourself become a YanDev or Yiik dev.

Except no cause more and more indie games are becoming AAA aka not special imo

@Crono if it weren't for Indie games we wouldnt have games such as Fnaf,Octodad Meatboy and even Minecraft! Its not worth defend companies that have games filled with microtransactions and bugs.

Just if they are good

They all look the same

Your discord is chaos

Indie and Hobbyist, you mean.

Good thing I'm already working on one.

Xbox ditched their beautiful xbox 360 indie game service which ended up killing the desire for people to play indie games on that platform.

A majority of the indie games made suck ass and they're only their to make quick bucks. Video games just suck in general and im quitting gaming.

@Crono hollow knight? shovel knight? no mans sky? dead cells?

Th3 Grave of Wrath What

Support mid-tier AA games too.

IMO, indie games also started sucking balls. Most are pretentious rogue lites these days. Few like terraria and stardew valley are worth the time.

I have a love for indie games not micro transactions

@Aidan Feliciano Quick bucks? Making an indie game is an incredibly risky idea financially - it's months of your life spent on making something that also has no marketing or technical support other than you, and no brand or IP to bank on. Someone could make a Pokemon-esque game better than Pokemon SwSh, but it doesn't have the Pokemon label on it, so fewer sales. I'm pretty sure that if someone has the skills to make an indie game they could find another less-risky way to make money.

You should play night in the woods. It’s my favorite indie game ever.

Oh boy I sure do love cookie-cutter metroidvanias with the same exact artstyle, indie games truly are the future.

Hollow knight is still one of my favorite games to this day

@MrConnman123 Do you think that every AAA game is a sportsball game or a first person shooter? Those are equally silly statements.

I guess in the end, you should support indie games, but not to a level of "Indie rules, AAA drools".

@Bane I have never seen a good indie game. Like i said, video games just suck in general, just my opinion though.

They are also not without sin.

3 words my dudes:
The Long Drive

No you supports games. If you just support indie games than they’ll all start to grow until they become the new triple A’s to which the new indies show up and people repeat. Stop mindlessly dumping on games but hypocritically supporting indie which are not as good as triple A’s

Unless indie devs business relationships becomes incestuous and anti-competitive. And cue the accusations of being a neo-nazi and misogynist.

indeed

@Jamie
No they don’t, what games do you even know bro?
If anything they’re all incredibly unique because they allow for experimentation and risk.

Most indie games are garbage just like AAA games. The super high quality ones that you always see people talking about like Hollow Knight or Undertale are the gems in a sea of shit. It’s easy to find those when word of mouth spreads so fast but if you search the steam store there’s tons of garbage.

@Bane Of course I'm exaggerating but the indie game scene just leaves me cold.

Play lifeweb dwarf fortress 7 days to die cataclysm dark days ahead, noita

to an extent

As if there's no fatigue and over-saturation with indie games.

$30 or less

I tapped on this video when this comment had 666 likes... Too bad people don’t let that stick.

Mannen spreken ware feiten

No, look at Alex Holokwa. Even Indie games are on a downward spiral. The entire medium is in a downward spiral.

Damn straight, check out Deep Rock Galactic. It's about to get a huge update with new mission types soon!

indeed

Indie titles also have a lot of garbage.

the only issue is over time indie games have fallin in to the same issue that "AAA" game have but they get a pass for not being a big company

@Real Human bean "they're all incredibly unique" big cap

@Cannoli Hollow Knight is a prime example of my issue with most indies. Despite cool mechanics it doesn't innovate on the Metroidvania concept, and it adds unnecessary shit to pad the game. It's Symphony of the Night (trash game) with better movement and combat, but worse level design overall. Exploration is made very tedious by having to purchase the maps, and it bites Dark Souls to no benefit like every other super unique indie made after 2009. Super Metroid and Metroid Fusion are still better.

@dandre3K
Well, not all, but far more unique than whatever the old business men at the top think is the safest low risk investment, that’s for sure

@Vape Cat the emp lemon discord, i got kicked from there for no given reason funny enough.

Indie games aren't any good, either.

@Crono if you want to check it out, look up hollow knight, pretty good game in my opinion.

But shit like YIIK is the content you must avoid

@MrConnman123 Please tell me Hollow Knight isn't one of them.What "cookie-cutter metroidvanias" are there exactly?

@Aidan Feliciano What about Hollow Knight, or the new game Hades, or even Subnautica.

@Katz That's understandable actually.There is a lot of junk I ignore on the Steam store and even the Switch E-shop, I believe shovelware is the term to describe them.However, there are still great games out there, even if it seems like a few.

@dandre3K Not every single game has to innovate or have a twist to it, sometimes they can just take the genre they are based off of and refine it, Hollow Knight is almost pretty much that, and it still stands out better than most AAA games and even indies.
Also what unnecessary stuff does Hollow Knight add exactly? And how is the level design worse?

@Interdimensional Deity Hollow Knight has grinding with a combination of hoarding geo and the possibility of losing geo permanently. That along with having to purchase maps makes exploration very tedious. The level design is fine at a micro level, it's the way the areas are put together that bothers me. It's nowhere near as cohesive as in the Metroid series, in fact no so called Metroidvania has an overall level design that matches any Metroid. They all bite Symphony of the Night, which is nothing like Metroid. I haven't tried Ori and the Blind Forest yet, maybe it does it right.

And the game has terrible performance. No 2d platformer should ever lag or stutter.

unless its yandere dev

True, atleast they are prioritizing making a good game over producing obscene amounts of profit.

@dandre3K What do you mean the way the areas are put together isn't cohesive? What about the placement of the areas feels wrong? And how is Metroid better?

Face it, the indie game industry is just like the indie film industry. Filled with horrible games with creators that refuse to acknowledge that their game is bad. Of course, there are great indie games and they should be proud of what they have accomplished, but for the most part, its just shovelware similar to what was coming out in the early 80's.

Now, if you love indie games and buy them exclusively, cool, you do you. But remember that you're most likely funding the gaming version of Neil Breen.

@Interdimensional Deity The pacing is trash. I constantly get lost because of the excessive nonlinearity and the stingy map system. Like Salt and Sanctuary (terrible game) I have to google the map to make progress. They both are mostly influenced by Symphony of the Night which also had the same meandering, bloated level design, but at least it had a normal map.

Super Metroid has immaculate level design, the best of any platformer I've ever played. Yet it's a very linear game. Every room serves a purpose in a greater puzzle. Every area is linked together like a mobius strip. It never wastes your time, no fast travel required.

@dandre3K Isn't one of the main traits of a metroidvania to get lost and explore? Also I thought the nonlinearity of Hollow Knight is what made it special.

@Interdimensional Deity Metroid was intended to be a game that teaches without any words. The player may get lost, but not for long. Symphony of the Night was intended to be like Zelda 2 but with more action I guess. Metroidvania is the result of pretending that these 2 games are more than superficially alike.

Getting lost is never a good thing, it's a waste of time. You're not winning, losing, or learning, you're just stuck.

foekoe watches emplemon you learn something new everyday

recently i have bought the ps4 version of "risk of rain 2" made by hopoo games. Its a really neat experience, somewhere in novemember they are releasing updates to the game

Dad :D

@dandre3K Ah, I see.

@dandre3K So you don’t really like Hollow Knight that much, I respect that.But if that’s the case then what do you think of Hollow Knight:Silksong? I know it isn’t even out yet but just from the trailer and demo alone, assuming that you’ve watched them(if not you should before replying to this), what are your hopes for it? What do you hope it would improve from the original Hollow Knight?

@Interdimensional Deity I like some things about Hollow Knight to me it's a 7/10 if it didn't lag. Like I said It's the pacing, it's annoying to get to what I like about it which is mostly the combat. I think it would be better if wasn't a Metroidvania. It's just my example for indies. If this game is a masterpiece among indies that means most are shovelware.

I'm not hating I respect indies. I want to be a game designer I just have other things to take care of 1st.

@dandre3K I understand.However I don't know what you mean about lag.Hollow Knight seems to run smoothly for me but then again I play it on the Switch.

Like rain world (damn rain world is the best)

Its the same with music. The bigger the indie; the more garbage the AAA.

Hotline Miami is one of my favourite games

@denis vieru trash games kid

@KLICK KAN KAP The only game I know in that reply is Terraria. So please tell me why exactly terraria is a "trash game" to you? Unless of course you weren't referring to that.

shuttup bro fr

foekoe funni 😳

No

@ThatOnePersonWhoEatsCheese Good games you mentioned there, though I'm not sure that NMS is an indie game, though I might be mistaken.

@Sontles its made by quite a small group so im not sure if that qualifies enough

Thank you Foekoe, very cool.

@Crono nigga indie isn't a genre defining word. It's just a game that's made by a small studio.

hey its funny gaming man

@Crono di- did you just reply to yourself

@poog indie games are the quality of gaming

Play Rainworld

If everybody supported indie games, they wouldn' t be indie anymore.

I luv u Foekoe (no homo)

That and companies that don't follow the way's of EA.

Is Minecraft Too Big To An Indie Anymore?

lmao the people hating on indie games here dont understand the gaming market at all. sad honestly, but real funny.

I'm so glad that this is the top comment, I was just about to type an extremely long comment about how indie games have nearly none of these problems

@Crono Binding of Isaac, The BitTrip series, Brawlhalla, Among Us, Caveblazers, Clustertruck, Cuphead, Dead Cells, Don't Starve, Downwell, Duck Game, Enter The Gungeon, Hollow Knight, Jump King, Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes, The Messenger, Noita, Overcooked, Peggle, Plague Inc., Plants vs Zombies, Super Meat Boy, Terraria, MINECRAFT like BRUH. I play all of these titles and I could list more but indie games are treasures in gaming.

yeah support my garbage!

and Team Fortress 2

That's even worse

@Crono based

Hylics 2 baby 😎

Honestly, I'd agree with you, but a lot of indie games I find seem to copy each other (as in pixel graphics, qWeRkY hUmOr, etc)

@Sam Squids reject modernity
Return to newgrounds flash games

I really do think that Indie games carry the torch of a developers trying to achieve an artistic desire with the hopes that there will be success and that any flaws in the game will not only be forgiven but modded by a player base that appreciates that the game exists period.

Yes.

foekeo

Check out Fancade for indie game creation game for Android

Right? Feels like indie developers are the only ones who care about making a fun and enjoyable videogame instead of a money printing machine

Video Game are going down because of shitty greed practices and no unions

Yea but games like doom and titanfall 2 are amazing

And even then you get stinkers like Hunt down the Freeman or ET Armies I like indie games are pretty decent

@Crono eh I like both for different moods

Spelunky 2 is fun :)

​@Crono​Spiderman ps4 and bloodborne are good but his is ironic right?

@Cool Ss katana zero is epic

@PuttPuttTheTruck I remember adding it to my Steam wishlist back at 2016 and every year it get delayed. I was worried it was in development hell . Man , the music ,story and gameplay is really good . if you are a Hotline Miami fan . you will love it .

Glad more people knows about it c:

No you just support good games

I cannot lie at first Indie games were fucking fire, but now it's 50/50. 50% being decent, well made games with ideas that have been tried before, but is a nice refresher. The other 50% utter trash, unoriginal and/or (indies) from AAA developers that are usually just poorly made games.

Indie games were good, but 2010-2013 is over and it's unrecognizable from AAA games. You occasionally find that needle in the haystack.

INSIDE JOKE

@PrincessScotchtape I couldn't agree more. Indie games are slowly becoming mainstream themselves

Nah, atleast the fad chasing in AAA games lasted more than 5 months and had budgets larger than 2 weeks of allowance and some dryer lint.

Yes and no. If indie games become mainstream or remotely popular they’ll receive unnecessary hate if pushed in the media just enough for people to get annoyed at its presence.

As a indie developer I thank you 🙏🏻

Nintendo also makes allot of good games
Just overpriced

@Mr. Zebra Papers,Please!
Stanley Parable
Terraria
Slime Rancher
Age of Civilizations 2(good indie strategy)
Celeste
There is No Game!(pretty good puzzle game)
Dude,Stop(Polish indie game with puzzles,execpt pretty good)
This War of Mine(One of my fave anti-war war games)
Undertale
Enter the Gungeon
Binding of Isaac
literally every TinyBuild game
Among Us
Henry Stickmin Collection(and past henry games)
Superhot
Surgeon Simulator
Goat Simulator
Serious Sam games

These are pretty popular indie titles,specially Dude,Stop for the speedrun community.

Ah, yes I'm gonna support the next undertale, sorry I meant the brand new 2D RPG with elements of adventure and eye catching pixelart sprites that conveys a great story about the good things in the world.


Don't get me wrong there are some good indie titles but goddamn is filled with some repetitive stuff, either a platformer or a rpg with pixelart

Absolutely, but I will say that current trend in indie games are not my thing. I'm ready for low poly, cel-shaded 3D to come into swing. If it doesn't, then someone has gotta step in and make it so.

Honestly I can't find any game interesting anymore mabye a huge part of it are the artstyles being used now.

@Zman 1471 uh yeah, that's why I said it sucks for me because I don't think this will end.

Deep Rock Galactic “ROCK AND STONE!”

@poog We want indie titles to be the future of gaming. The scary thing is thinking about what the future of gaming will actually be and it's a terrifying future.

@Daniel Jones I said quality gaming, not gaming

the Indie scene is not all glamour it also has a fair share of shovelware

@Savage fox oh yes there's a bunch of absolute shit in the indie scene. But when theres a good one, it blows most triple As out of the water

@poog that's extremely rare though one every three years maybe

@Savage fox Idk man, Shovel Knight released in 2014, Downwell/Crypt of the Necrodancer/Undertale in 2015, Firewatch/Hyper Light Drifter/Darkest Dungeon/Stardew Valley/Enter the Gungeon in 2016, Hollow Knight/Dead Cells/Little Nightmares/Night in the Woods/Cuphead in 2017 etc etc

I could keep going. There are amazing titles every year man.

​@poog for me only stardew Valley and before that was factorio and rimworld and before that Minecraft for the average person to have a game they like every year is actually pretty low

@Savage fox just because you only like certain games doesn't invalidate the importance, impact and quality of others. Sure, maybe in your experience you only focused on a few games over the years, but that does not mean there are only a few good indies every few years. In my experience, I've played every game I've mentioned, and liked every one of them better than almost every triple A Ive ever played.

Yes all the retro style Doom/Quake/Blood/Duke Nukem inspired indie shooters are amazing about 75% of the time, it's mind-blowing!

Only if they're good

Ceo of Reddit (foekoe)

No

and then deviantart/rule 34/furaffinity/whatever the fuck comes along wipes their ass with it disgusts me and i never play indie games

that or its something like haven which makes me depressed so i dont play it

and look for obscure japanese ones or dos ones

@Tzer probably obscure japanese ones but idk which

My god the replies to this comment suck. People act like every single indie game is just derivative and that statement is as ridiculous as claiming every single AAA is derivative of things like CoD/GTA/Uncharted. The people mentioning indies aren't really bringing up many fresh/obscure ones either, though don't get me wrong they're quality games and not defined by being derivative. I may edit this later to list a couple of less widely-known ones thrown in and a variety of different styles of indie games to hopefully garner some interest for people to look into them more. Plus a lot of genres are dead in the AAA sphere and only kept alive by indies, so take that. Honestly part of the fun of looking into indies is to find more weird ones and just appreciate that culture, I think AAA gaming is actually more stale (not saying it sucks, I love a bunch of AAAs anyway) and the culture/hype around AAAs sucks more.

@philRaco Indie AAA can be special too

@Whaterman yh, but there are a ton aaa's that are the safest games ever for the companys making them
On the other hand indies have to risk or else they get no profit
You dont see many AAAs anymore pulling risky moves

@philRaco Indieit depends on the game
I liked stanley parable
And i liked rdr2

@Crono Let me list you a couple of "boring" indie games: Minecraft, Hollow Knight, Terraria, Stardew Valley, Celeste, Ori, and that's just the well-known ones.

@MrConnman123 Have you played any indie metroidvanias? Have you played Hollow Knight, the Messenger, and others?

@Katz But unlike AAA games, that is something that is excusable. Indie games are where game devs who are just starting out come from. So of course a lot of them will be shit. And also most indie games are one person working with little funding. But for AAA games, they have no excuse since they have usually hundreds of people working on them, with all the funding they could want.

@dandre3K ThEy mAdE gAmEs BeTtEr iN My dAy!!!!

@dandre3K When has it lagged for you? And there is an abundance of geo everywhere. Literally the only time I have ever had to grind geo was when I was trying to get the unbreakable charms, which are the late-game geo sink. And how is it not cohesive? Each and every area connects to at least two other areas(except for the Hive) and there are often secret ways into areas as well.

@dandre3K Getting lost is not the same as getting stuck. Getting stuck is when there is nowhere you can perceive that you can go. Getting lost is the exact opposite of this, where there are so many places you can go that you can't figure out how to get back. But in Hollow Knight, you usually don't need to go back.

@Jonah Clements The only indie metroidvania that interests me is Bushiden, look at some of those "upcoming metroidvania games" lists and you'll see that they all have the same artstyle and honestly don't look as good as SOTN or Super Metroid anyway.

true

@Jonah Clements Most of those copy Metroid

@Crono Using good game design doesn't mean you copied another good game.

Indies are either:
Good games
Very terrible games
funni internet humor games
Bad gameplay with stupid history games
Unique games
Very generic games.
With traits of: Overrated,Underrated,Known and not Known
This of course,being my opinion.

@Jonah Clements >When has it lagged for you

Yes

@Jonah Clements You're never stuck in the age of Google. Being lost and grinding enemies for maps is a waste of time when the map can be pulled from the internet. The ways areas are layed out plus the map system and the lack of movement options early in the game makes the pacing trash.

@Jonah Clements >ThEy mAdE gAmEs BeTtEr iN My dAy

I'm a 90s baby. Ocarina of Time is overrated and SOTN is the worst game I've ever played. Fortnite is the goat. I'm fair and balanced like Fox news.

@dandre3K cringe

@MrConnman123 elaborate

@dandre3K I never pulled out a map until I replayed it on Steel Soul mode.

@poog Y E S

The irony is that these replies are extremely toxic on a video telling that we are too serious and defensive essentially. I like and respect indie games more, but I cant say that my most cherished experiences were with big titles. Just chill useless of a rare case of an objectively wrong opinion. We are proving Emp's point here.

@Th3 Grave of Wrath we speak not of ... him

@Crono Hollow Knight, Enter the Gungeon, Darkest Dungeon, The Binding of Isaac, Celeste, One Step From Eden, Slay the Spire, Monster Train, all my favorites and they're all indie. Look for them, and you'll find gold.

Most indie games just either rip off existing games (Cave Story, Undertale, etc) or use a fancy art style to distract from generic game design (Cuphead, Hollow Knight, etc). Indies' success has come from the fact they're the "in" thing, rather than their quality. Sure, there are some gems to be found, but their "good" rate isn't much better than AAA titles.

@SuperRobotFish SHAW

Yeah support Digital Homicide

@Aidan Feliciano bye

@TeamPendragon how about Spelunky? That thing I think is a masterpiece

@Aidan Feliciano laughs in Spelunky

@Katz have you ever tried Spelunky

@FiremanPC don't judge a book by its cover

@Crono
Ah yes, the most well known Indie games Spiderman Ps4 and Bloodborne.

This is why you evaluate and support anything on a case by case basis*

@weebsarentpeople a lot of them are tho. That’s why only very few receive praise and popularity

@Obunga Pyramid at least my expectations are lower so that if its trash i dont feel as bad but triple aaa games are supposed to be good. Theyre made by big companies

There are exceptions but indie games don't do it for me most of the time. Since they largely consist of 16-32 bit platforming or puzzle games.

@Blues and often are made with the same sacrifices AAA games have to make for "marketability" a lot of these indie studios operate exactly like AAA ones just on a smaller scale.

yeaaah, though for every Minecraft there's a boring pixel platformer only called good because it surpasses the non-existent expectations.

@Crono cool it cowboy

@poog but then watch the cycle repeat, then indie devs will no longer be “independent,” once they have enough funding behind them, they will inevitably become just as big as Triple A games, forcing the cycle to repeat.

@Count Of Monte Cristo that would have to take a collapse on the establishment of the current triple A companies, which isnt happening anytime soon. And even then, there will always be more aspiring indie developers who care more about art than money. It's not like this is the only wave of indie devs

@Count Of Monte Cristo oh, and some indie devs like Team Cherry have deliberately turned down brand deals and shit like that because they dont wanna corporatize their IP. Indie devs have integrity.

I'm not sure indie titles are the solution, indie games have a very limited scope due to lack of resrouces, and I feel they've stagnated into an endless stream of pixel art retro sidescrollers but whatever.

I feel reviving the middle market would be a good solution, AA games, but I'm not sure how one would do that.

The fact of the matter is the industry just doesn't seem to want to make games I want to play and it saddens me.

@poog I’ve gotta say, it’s nice to see dev teams like team cherry have integrity, but idk man, there are some people out there who WILL sell out when the money is good enough.

@multilad816 based. Can you elaborate on that statement please?

@Crono I think indies , PlayStation , Nintendo , and many more have been consistently good for the past few years

This is why you watch the entire video

xljmgna Cool. Don’t care though. It’s fine that you don’t like rogue likes. But I do. It’s understandable that you don’t, but quite frankly, I don’t care. I’m not trying to make you like them.

xljmgna No problem. Rogue likes are one of those genres that definitely are not for everyone. Kind of like Soulsborne games or Monster Hunter games. So like I said, it’s definitely understandable that you don’t like them

@poog Support for you man.

i can agree

Yep.

@Jamie and AAA doesn’t?

@Katz I think they’re referring to the good ones. Any old game made by some dude in 5 hours counts as an indie game, but obviously that’s not what Foekoe is referring to here.

@Faidou a lot less than the AAA scene my man that stuff sucks AND it’s 3 times the price

@Shin Shaman your own statements are contradicting themselves, as you are calling indie games garbage and yet saying that your a “hardcore gamer” and that the games industry is over saturated and that everybody else is a “casual normie” when in fact if the only thing you play are big AAA titles you are the casual normie, and indie games tend to be a lot more unique than the average AAA title

@MagmaVision games and films are two very different industries. Making a good game nowadays is as simple (but certainly not easy) as having the skill, time, and software to make one, so indie games can often be very high quality despite a low budget. Movies on the other hand are expensive, no matter what. You can’t make a movie with a computer and some talent like you can with an indie game. THAT’S why indie movies are often terrible. I don’t think you’ve played many indie games, all of my favorite games are indie, and yet your saying that indie games are garbage. Most of them are because any game released by some guy counts as an indie, but obviously people aren’t referring to that when they talk about indies, they are talking about the quality ones made by passionate and talented developers who really wanted to make something unique unlike a AAA studio whose primary goal is to make money, which can get in the way of making a truly great game.

@FiremanPC AAA loving normie

@PrincessScotchtape I mean considering how literally any game released by any person who isn’t a AAA studio counts as an indie game, of course most of them are going to suck, but you can’t judge them all based on that as most are fairly low effort and were easy to make. If you want a good representation of why people like indie games you have to look at the best ones, the ones with passion put into them. Im sure even back then there was a ton of garbage with a few shining examples. Honestly in recent years I’ve played more decent indies than ever before

@Person No I fit right in.

@bradford git gud

go say poopie fard

@poog exactly, they are not scared of sometging unique or new

@Crono spiderman ps4: console exclusive, nothing new, boring.
Bloodborne: repetitive

Shovel knight: original mechanics, story, characters.
Undertale: replayable, mysterious, charming,unique
Changed: heavily experimental and very unique.
Indies are waaaay better than 90% of AAA

So i should support indian devs? Am i doing this right?

I did. I bought the new my friend pedro game on ps4 and they thank me for buying their game in the credits

I haven't seen an Indie game give me the sense of satisfaction that the Gunplay is Destiny 2 has given me.

stardew valley is a pretty good one

I love the war in the comments. People are either blindly praising all indie games/AAA games or criticizing them for perceived faults.

I like both AAA titles and indie games, the caveat is that you have to dig a little bit in either market to find something good.

A lot of indie games fall flat because they either don't have a big enough budget, or are trying to emulate the success of other games (usually rogue-likes).

AAA games likewise have bloated budgets that can lead to an overdesigned mess of a game like Duke Nukem Forever.
AAA games are also guilty of chasing the latest trends, like with Apex Legends and shooters in general.


The truth is, without the AAA market we wouldn't have DOOM 2016 or DOOM Eternal. Without the indie market we wouldn't have Minecraft or The Binding of Issac. We need both.

AAA developers and indie developers have financial support and creative freedom respectively, which can lead to drastically different design philosophies when it comes to video games. It all boils down to the type of experience you're looking for.

@Crono nah there's a lot of amazing indie games

@Crono yeah but there's indie games like Hollow Knight, Celeste, Hades, Dead Cells, Shovel Knight, Stardew Valley ect that are absolutely amazing

My favourite indie game is verdun a ww1 fps

Funny hollow knight man

indie over AAA

Monster Train is a pretty good indie game, you should check it out if you haven't already

Until the indie games become the corporate overlords themselves, and the cycle starts over.

Yes support the never ending titles of indie games that are just as shitty as triple A titles that will only contribute to the second video game crash

@Crono You are literally using the TWO BEST AAA GAMES OF THE DECADE to argue against Indie games being a great alternative.

Your head must be so empty I could see the end of the universe inside it.

Jesus christ, man.

@philRaco Indie examples?

@Aidan Feliciano Don't let the adulting door hit you on the way out.

@Supacool9 except AAA does drool lol

People are used to naming the same indie games as success stories every single time when the indie scene is as corrupted as the mainstream.

There's a sea of awful indie games, and no "you gotta search for it" doesn't remove the rest of trash tagged ass indie.

What you want is a developer with principles and a vision, not a blanket tag as "indie", there can be mainstream games made with passion as much as indies can be greedy slot machines.

@dandre3K I too don't particularly find hollow knight a masterpiece as others flaunt it to be, but your reasoning for saying it's bad is just plain stupid. You just expect games to hand-hold through exploration so you can have fun, which is ok, but saying a whole genre is bad just because you don't feel like exploring on your own and getting lost it's mind boggling.

Unfortunately indie games suffer from the same fate, they can only be so different from each other when they are limited by budget, time and resources. So in the end you find yourself playing the same 2d game over and over just with a different title and minor changes. Also it's certainly easy to make games nowadays with tools like unity, so this creates another layer of saturation of crapware that you have to go through in order to find the hidden gem.

@Prostagma? Ok mindreader

Absolutely nothing I said can be construed as me wanting my hand-held.

I just love how universal the "git gud" defense is for shitty game design.

@Aidan Feliciano try the game verdun

Lol indie games are done. Only so many small games to make.

i think the problem is that for every undertale there will be thousands of absolutely terrible indie games

@Kelly hall I only play hunt showdown

Ayy, foekoe

Hylics 2, Juice World, Dwarf Fortress, and many others are going to change the world of games. The weirder the better. Let the indie titles flow!

Some of the best games I’ve gotten were either indie or smaller studios like Snow Runner and Darkest Dungeon. Hell I consider snow runner my favorite game from 2020. Also their expansions rock

@Crono cuphead, the binding of isaac, super meat boy, 60 seconds, undertale, spelunky and spelunky 2 and more, bruh

@Crono Couldn't agree less.

@dandre3K It seemed like so, like you need to be spoon fed progression in order to have fun.

Tfw $60 triple A titles feel like low budget indie games, and $15 low budget indie games feel like triple A titles.

When people say this i feel they forget that indie games are the realm of the sjw and the political activist 90% of the time....indie games are not going to save anything.

@Cool Ss Im hyped for the continuation to katana zero the dev has been working on for months. Katana zero has the game play of an insanely difficult 90s action game. The amazing high quality pixel art of the modern indie scene and the engaging story and charictors of undertale.

@Shin Shaman blah blah blah blah blah looking foward to a game does not make one a consoomer you are mis useing a buzzword that only poped up very recently. You are no better than sjws calling everyone who disagrees with you on anything a nazzzi

@No Peaceful Solotions Anymore yup . i can't wait for the DLC . the game was in development hell for few years as i remember , where it got delayed for few years . so it will take time for sure .

@Super Penguin animations How about I play what ever the FUCKK I want and you mind your business?

@FiremanPC Go play cod child

@FiremanPC go play fortnight child

@Cool Ss true hes also just releaseing what seems to be on its way to being an entire game for free so thats cool

@No Peaceful Solotions Anymore even if it was DLC we pay for . i will buy it . i think the dev deserve the money . the game is underrated gem .

@No Peaceful Solotions Anymore If anything I'm the antithesis of a boomer. You're definitely right about weirdos using indies for their weak propaganda, but they're a minority. Its the journalists fault for giving their walking simulators far too much attention.

@dandre3K that was most defently the result of people wanting "graphics" over anything i always found that to be silly my fav games barely have any graphics that are real. Norita,gungeon,total war warhammer,hades,borderlands 3. All of these are not considered "realistic graphics." they are stylized to fit the game and thats how it is.

@No Peaceful Solotions Anymore And Kingdom Hearts, Pokemon, Viewtiful Joe, Ratchet & Clank etc. Gameplay is paramount, without it there's no game yet people will still try to debate that fact.

@dandre3K Ratchet and clank is makeing a comeback though and thats awsome,also crash lets not forget that

@No Peaceful Solotions Anymore ?

@Spongiroth EnaPants - EnaTenkiyoGaming Ah, truly a connoisseur.

Oh hell yeah 100% facts

@Sebastian Brinkmann "If everybody supported indie games, they wouldn' t be indie anymore." nt really, since the point o an indie studio/developer is that it's independent

This comment should be pinned :D

I mean, I just started playing receiver 2 and I find it really fun.

@weebsarentpeople true

@Crono bruh. Look at hollow knight and Celeste. Indie games cost less, have been polished more/feel more completed upon launch, have a good amount of content, and break the mold.

@Spongiroth EnaPants - EnaTenkiyoGaming do you have any recommendations? I know this is months later, but I hold onto my vita, cause it's a really cool Handheld Console, but I've never found any good games....

@anab0lic I've asked another commenter, but I see your reply and wanted to know if you had any recommendations? Especially for the PSVita &/or Switch?

@ItCanWait Killzone Mercenary, Mortal Kombat, Uncharted Golden Abyss, Sonic All Stars Racing Transformed, Tearaway, Rayman Legends, etc.

@i don't check my notifications I doubt you'll get this, but did you ever put together a list of the games, you thought were worth trying. Either AAA, AA, or Indie?

@Spongiroth EnaPants - EnaTenkiyoGaming thanks for the fast reply man! I'll check them out.

No deadlines and no expectations unless it's kickstarter

@Spongiroth EnaPants - EnaTenkiyoGaming (april 2021) oof

@Cindy Aurum among us lacks character development and story. Metal Gear did it better

@dandre3K I have grinded only twice in the game and i have 112% . But the performance is a problem ngl.

I don’t know, I think Indie Games add to an oversaturated market but I like them, aside from that.

holy crap lois, it's the funny hollow knight man

Yeah they said that about indie music but look where that turned out

@Crono That's a very short-sighted statement

Did someone say.. Rimworld?

This is way subnautica and terraria are some of my favourite games of all time

7,100th like

not all indies are great games but a lot are

It’s the furry man

@philRaco Indie The indie scene is still the best for unique and/or simpler games with amazing gameplay and passion projects of a few developers. Of course, like any scene, there are always gonna be people trying to copy other's successes, that's inevitable.

@Jamie No. Even if all of them were pixel art, pixel art is NOT all the same. Pixel art is endless of possible art styles

@Matheus Bezerra de Lima i agree fully with that

i heard this comment in the foekoe voice

@JKTwice Pixel art looks more beautiful than low 3-D polygon art. It's one of the reasons why SNES-Genesis era holds up so much better than PS1/N64

@Leonardo I love the platformer genre

Indie games are good but this type of mentality is why we get games like YiiK. Indie games are the great messiah of the game industry, they have just as many problems.

@Woyio I simply support good games and what has the potential of so, indie or not. And there's the old saying that 90% of anything is crap

There the only games i play now a days... once a blue moon ill pick up a AAA game... but thats starting to feel like once a few years now a days!

play rain world

Have y'all never heard of Dwarf Fortress?

Ayyy foekor

Ignore my comment its too deep into the abyss for me ti edit

Agreed

They are all the same and I am not interested in the genre they use so no. I just stick with games from the 2000's like Halo CE - Halo 3 or the Half life series.

foeko

f a c t s

@Crono AAA psyop

@Crono I suggest Project Moon's Lobotomy Corporation and Library of Ruina. Of course they have gore so 18+ only. But hey, I won't tell if you won't.

Even indie's are in massive downfall with cash grab early access garbage

@Crono this is bait, do not respond

as long as they're not charging me 20 dollars for a god damn walking simulator.

@Crono have you heard of hollow knight or outer wilds

Yes

yeah, indie games of the 2010s have been absolutely excellent. In fact, I haven't played a triple A game in over a year, because indie games provide so much more lovely and unique experiences

Even though most of them see Indie games as the savoir of the gaming industry itself the irony is, that the indie branch nowadays is just like their AAA Brother running after trends and block busters.
I rememver, when Super Meat Boy came out, all of a sudden every indie dev made a Super Meat Boy lookalike.
The same a few years later with Dear Esther. And then you got Walking Simulators everywhere.
And now we have the 2D Metroidvania Rogue Like/Lights like Hollow Knight. Make it pixel looking, maybe permadeath or pretty hard, a cryptic story and voila you have your new indie blockbuster.

The whole Indie ordeal is just AA but smaller in scale. So much for the big savior of the gaming community...

Nah, indie games have all become very similar these days

@Dave Fred you're not looking hard enough, there are so many amazing and unique indie games around

@Anna Arkless Maybe, it's just that all the "indie" games I've seen on steam for example all share one of like 6 styles/gimmicks. If you've got any to recommend, I'd love to check them out

the hell are you doing here, meme man?

@Crono cough cough battleblock theater, castle crashers, the binding of isaac, hollow knight, don't starve, ori, super meat boy, celeste, pit people, spelunky, terraria, minecraft, undertale, five nights at freddy's, deltarune, untitled goose game, getting over it, the stanley parable, fall guys, among us i guess, superhot, cuphead, etc cough cough

@BitTripBoy tbh plants vs zombies isn't really a indie game anymore (because ea) but i do agree

Indie developers care about their games, publishers vare about the money it could make them.

Gonna play bugs fable now. Since nintendo doesnt want to make a paper mario game witj rpg elements i gladly support that game

Just a bunch of pixel garbage

Indie game are on a dowbward spiral. They all look The fucking same

except for let it flow, that is an example of a BAD indie game

TRUUUE

Well yes, and no

Most indie games are pure trash

@SuperRobotFish stop the hype. You're getting yourself ready for disaster

@Crono indie games just have a higher variance of quality. Most of them are either masterpieces or shovelware. And those masterpieces in the indie scene usually cost way less and provide more entertainment than AAA titles. Not to say there aren’t good AAAs though.

@Aidan Feliciano If you haven’t played Hollow Knight, Celeste, Dark Souls, or Cuphead, please don’t give up on games yet.

@HagonIsTheMan
Thing is, I would expect triple a to have better quality products, but when 3 fucks in a garage can outmatch them so often nowadays there’s a real problem. Of course, the majority of indie games are going to be garbage because of their sheer accessibility, but that shouldn’t mean we should discredit a good chunk of them who actually manage to be good just because they’re void of a major publisher. Not everything is either a diamond in the rough or garbage, sometimes it can be in the middle of the two, but either way it doesn’t matter because you didn’t pay 70 bucks for it.

Most of the times you don’t even have to sift through any garbage because the treacherous and free market-like attitude of the indie market already made the cream of the crop rise to the top.

@HagonIsTheMan
They’re still trying to put this as industry standard for the new gen. also sales tax.

Unfortunately. Even Indie games were not immune to this bad mentality of Toxic Community and stubborn contration who bullies and harass people for liking it. Just look at Minecraft, FNAF, Undertale, Fortnite, Among Us and now Friday Night Funkin'.

@HagonIsTheMan But there more people getting bullied for liking a game than hating a game.

@Literally Lucifer Agreed.

@HagonIsTheMan Ok Boomer.

@HagonIsTheMan Ok and?

yes

@Crono two words: hollow knight. Shit ton of content for only 15 dollars

@Crono What about Undertale and Deltarune?
Also, you should probably look for more examples.

@a toaster Maybe try playing other games

Indi devs are up their own ass snuffing their farts of a "game" full of bugs, mechanical dead ends, just aggravating concepts, and completely unhinged and unwilling to consider they might have screwed up but still wants money. The problem is most games are just competitions and flexing, not about entertainment.

@a toaster Oh, I didn't know. you absolute fool. lol jk

@SuperRobotFish Y E S

We really should support the good ones, the ones that push the boundaries and do something new and fun... This also applies to AAA titles, they should get recognized for good games too.

@Elliot Alderson agree

@poog indie games are the future

Yes, and we also desperately need to encourage entrepreneurship and/or access to grants in the arts for people who want to spend the years required to learn the hard/soft skills, networking design, development of emerging gaming trends, indie games will cease if we continue making the same one person studio pixel art games that copy 90% of their dna from the metroidvania and souls genre, we need to get back to that 10-20 person team and limit the scope creep and tedium.

@Crono portal technically started as an indie game

yep, indies are cool. loved a bunch of them this decade.

Like Factorio

Those are pretty shit to

Yeh. Like dewm.

An indie game I haven’t played but, after seeing this video, I’d recommend to everyone is Outer Wilds. This games is really like no other, and combines space exploration, archeology, and a fun, almost mountaineering/adventurist vibe. This game has changed people, in that some of the messages hidden or embedded within the game and some of its endings is seriously emotional and philosophical. The work of Alex Beachum cannot go unrecognized; this game will soon see an astronomical rise. And I hope that’s after some of you read this, you’ll go explore the Outer Wilds.

@Nessy wumao

@dandre3K no u dont 🤡🤡🤡🤡

y

DELTARUNE DELTARUNE DELTARUNE

@Aidan Feliciano From what you've said so far, it sounds like you just don't like video games in general.

@Crono Dark souls is superior to what?

No

@Crono have your really played any ?

@BitTripBoy omori, grimms hollow, undertale, deltarune, and wayyy more

@Keat0n_ afcourse just like not all aaa games are gud but MOST indie games are good

@Smithy do you have any proof?

I feel like indies and mid-budget games have never been more fun, while AAAs have never been more depressing.

There's almost too many good indies on Steam. I could never find the time to play every single one that interests me.

Tons of crap, too, but I can wait for the reviews to sift through the duds.

Yes I recommend Dani’s work

@Crono It is because Indie Games are usually niche, they’ve more so become a vessel for unhindered artistic visions, experimentation and unique spins on gaming tropes and genres. Of course they aren’t as profitable as games that aim to gain as much profit as possible via; attempting to be appealing and/or accessible to as large of an audience as possible (eg. Among Us) or having an incredibly recognisable and known IP attached (Insomniac’s Spider-Man). Not to mention the much lower budgets, almost non-existent marketing, and the incredible amount of Indie creators and games that make it hard to find a specific game you might want to play. Indie Games are vital to the future of the industry, otherwise most games will just keep becoming more corporate.

@Meme The Master Monarch Indie games can be good or bad, simple as that. But there will always be many amazing games being made

i mean with indie games there's a large amount of survivor bias. if an indie title flops, unless it's some kickstarter game or something, it'll largely go unnoticed and no one will really care, but if a AAA title flops, you are going to know about it.

This is why you pirate games

@weebsarentpeople Most of them very much are commercial failures. The indie games you hear of aren't even a drop in the ocean. Everyone and their mother's making an indie game, it's the hip thing to do right now. I'm not saying indie games are bad, love indie games. Just playing devil's advocate here because what you said was just so completely, utterly and obviously wrong. Overall a terrible way to defend indie games. 0/10.

Why are so many people talking about how most indie games are garbage? Like yeah, no shit, sherlock. When applied to art, Sturgeon's law always has and always will hold true. 90% of everything is crap, sometimes even more. The sad truth is, most people don't have the talent or passion to make something truly special. Obviously if you don't look at the mainstream examples you're going to find a ton of garbage. That applies to triple A games, that applies to indie games, that applies to movies, that applies to books, that applies to everything. It doesn't indicate a regression, it's the natural order of things. Seeing people going "oh no, too much garbage, I give up" genuinely makes me sad. Leave the garbage alone and keep looking. There are games for you. There are movies for you. There are books for you. Resort to piracy if it's too hard on your wallet, I don't care. Buy the games that you truly love, and I'm happy.
Oversaturation is a myth. Even within the dreaded "oversaturated" genres, like the dreaded first person shooters and metroidvanias, you can will find titles that will impress you. The fact is, books have been getting made for thousands of years, exist in numbers far greater than video games could ever hope to reach, yet people are still coming up with new ideas. Even if every book was somehow a rehash of an old one, you'd never know. There are so many out there, the amount you'd need to realize that fact is greater than you could read in a thousand lifetimes. Video games are even broader a medium than books are, with countless more dimensions to explore. To the text, you add visuals, sound and interactivity. Humans could never hope to exhaust the amount of ideas that have yet to be explored.

Suicide guy is my favourite indie game atm

@Foekoe, or just play older games with amazing modding community.

these are all good points, but im going to parrot what another youtuber said because i cant think for myself

A majority of this was still my own wording, including nostalgia.

Yep. Getting with the times

There are also more and more botched releases on games and remasters then ever before. Sonic Colors ultimate! The fuck is this?

@Matanui idk companies have botched games/hardware forever in all honesty. Sega has an infamous track record of horrible releases all the way to the 32x and the Saturn and sonic 06 is a meme for how much of a bugfest it is. Golden company Nintendo themselves made the abominable virtual boy and flopped with the wii u. I do think most gamers just arent looking hard enough/havent played the classics. AAA devs are producing more shovelware than ever but if Ubisoft can consistently move a lot of units of assassins creed i dont see why they wouldnt, you just got realize AAA games are garbage except nintendo/FromSoft. Furthermore gamers want to complain ab being nickel and dimed for DLC and battle passes but with inflation games are cheaper than they were in the 90s and most indie games are less than the industry standard $60. Scalpers taking the supply of ps5s, switches and graphics cards is a bigger problem than a lack of good games.

"I'm the Nostalgia Critic I remember it so you don't have to!"

And youtube comments

@Chuck Hicks no it’s movies

Ouch

I rarely see REAL professional movie critics online (ie: critics that actually live up to their namesake in terms of their quality as critics), and the same goes for video game critics. MauLer is currently my gold standard as far as critics go. Another is probably Liam Triforce.

But yeah, there's no need to really get hung up whenever a game isn't an absolute masterpiece. Part of loving something is understanding and coming to terms with its flaws, and how those flaws define the strengths of that thing. Like Emp said, not every game can be a masterpiece, and its because of that why games that are often deemed as "masterpieces" stand out as much as they do because they're more than just exceptional. Obviously I want and expect better from the developers i buy games from (even if their previous games were a success), but normally my rule of thumb is "if i had fun playing the game, then my purchase was worthwhile and the game was a success."

Or any piece of media.

yes

and anime

@AxxL your vids are kinda weird

I feel there is more meat to chew on in critiques than praises.
When you point to a mechanic, the situations that arise from it, and lay out why it's bad... that's a valid argument.
Sure there's people who bash on it for flimsy or poorly thought out reasons, but it's a double edged sword, you can critique their critique.
When praising, you can make similar arguments, but I've often see people just saying "this is good" which isn't very engaging.

@AxxL how about no freak

@z NightOwl z technically it can apply to everything

Oh totally

and Music

Ams this thread

And especially music, which in my opinion is the most subjective form of art

It can probably apply to just about anything

Make me think of the South Park episode with the yelp reviewers

Music as well

Really this whole video can kind of apply to any piece of media in the last decade

Movie industry at least 3 times as old and better regulated to an extent

@4nt That's true. You finally deconstruct the word "masterpiece" by dissecting how and why we love anything so much. Most people tried to push themselves too hard to reach the level of "perfection" but whatever the reality ensues, they hindered. We maybe are not perfect, but we can be perfect by default. Even for a video game, it doesn't matter how poor or realistic the graphics are as long as the gameplay stayed relevant and successful.

@Happy Demon Preach brother.

@Omnipotent 8383 am I the only one who still kinda likes his videos? His old ones anyways?

@Paris Knight his old ones are classic but generally on the internet people find him cringey nowadays

@DRIP YUHHH you should have, yes

It's worse for restaurants because they might will go out of business because of yelp

Critics should be disregarded.

I feel like movies are tough. You can tell the same story a million times with a video game genre but plenty of those feel unique and special. You watch like 20 zombie movies tho and it’s like “fuck dude we get it you saw the other 19 zombie movies too, I get it this is you’re slightly different take on the zombie apocalypse”. So with that you can watch just a trailer or hear reviews of movies and form a pretty solid critical take of it without having experienced it in full. Whereas plenty of games will happily surprise you every now and then even if you’re going into it expecting it to be bad

Or literally anything in society

And comic books

@4nt Agree with all this but I’m wondering if that you stand by that Mauler comment one year later lol

It can also easily be applied to my sex life.

I even thought Pokémon Legends Arceus was fun and a step in the right direction for the series despite it's shortcomings

It's always been a simple definition to me that means someone who plays games. I still find the cultural aspects baffling.

@Retrosta Same. The word makes me cringe now. If I heard that word a decade ago however I'd be proud to fit in with at least some kind of group, being a wallflower basically.

Pathetic and cringy but I just had to say it. (Edit: removed extra asterisk -_-)

Yea when i say it i say it like "GAmer" but in an anoyying voice

You can do it. I believe in you

But u kinda did tho..

Agreed its unreal how fucking ironic it is.

That says a lot about society

Its our N word, we say it but others cant.

@Caleb Dehart 😅

@Aevvah_Flxwer well non gamers started using it

This is honestly actually a pretty troublesome issue for hobbyist, academic, and industry discourse alike. “Gamer” has so many specific connotations/implications/expectations attached to it nowadays, but “video games player” doesn’t exactly roll off the tongue.

This is not simply a matter of cultural baggage; it’s a matter of communication. So many people—the majority of people, even—expect that you mean a surprisingly specific persona when you invoke the term “gamer.” It immediately conjures up a very specific type of person in their mind.

Now, far be it from me to say that everyone else is using the word wrong; this is how language evolves! HOWEVER, this means that we no longer have a convenient, general-purpose term to describe “anyone who plays video games with some regularity.”

Like, for example: my dear grandma is a gamer, but she’s not a GAMER. Do you see what I mean here?

This difference in intended meaning is so profound that—depending on which way the word is interpreted—it can have has a completely transformative effect on any statement in which it is used. People who always interpret it one way are going to have a philosophy-level difference in paradigm about what “gaming” even is from people who always interpret it the other way. Or... ANother way?? How many different ways DOES it get interpreted?!

I imagine that anyone who is involved or deeply interested in the design and/or business of video games probably runs into this source of confusion on a very regular basis... knowingly or unknowingly. If they always notice it, it’s probably frustrating. If they don’t realize that it’s happening, it’s probably really frustrating. Hahaha.

Miscommunication is the most surefire way to make sure that project team members are not on the same page as each other, as well as instill false expectations in other people that are absolutely not going to be met. Having and using terminology that means the same thing to everyone involved helps massively to reduce miscommunication.

No proofread YOLO

@deadfr0g Well said, fascinating read. I agree 100%. And thank you. :)

@Bardar1762 no

The term shouldn't even exist to begin with. There are just people who play video games. But yknow, tribe mentality and all that

Me too, always hated that term TBH

EPIC GAMER BROOOOOO

Hello my fellow epic Fortnite Among Us gamer. Better not act sus!

In 2021, the term "Gamer" means you play competitive multiplayer FPSs or ARPG. I think it implies competition now in a way it never had before.

The word gamer is a synonym for based

you don't know what irony is, do you?

It's a big wig marketing term, and it has been for 15 years to get nerds to buy all their products.

I'm a big time gamer

It's been turned into am extremely loaded word

It’s just natural cringe.

Gamers rise up bu unironically

memes lowkey ruined our vocabulary

Me neither. I'm in my 30s and I play a lot of games. I can't say it without thinking that I sound ridiculous.

That's good.
We are players "gamers" is just EA way of triggering you to buy in 2009.

and thats why this generatsion is rioting....capitialist realisem

@scunthorpe how old are you?

Make America communist to starve and completely make people hate the idea of going out of the way to learn to get better jobs which require higher intelligence and effort since everyone will get the same.

I'm not saying capitalism is perfect, definitely has some major flaws, but sure is better than communism.

Also tell me if I'm wrong but, last time I checked, it has never been scientifically proven that video games affect the brain.

@linguine heard of anarchisem ?

@Danolix I wonder why people would promote anarchism in any form, honestly.

@John Nirtamo wow, what nonsense

Except that if you go back and play a game from that time period that you've never played before, it will probably be fun, more so than a modern equivalent. It's not just nostalgia. Something is genuinely missing from the newer games.

@ChainsawChuck13 passion. Games used to be made by nerds, FOR nerds. Now they're made by corporate committees in offices who don't have the faintest idea what actual gamers want.

I'm sure that in 10 years, there will be youtube videos about how FortNite was the pinnacle of gaming, and nothing has ever come close to it since its release. This video is just pure doomer nostalgia goggles in action.

@ThotSlayer just like the video said, people can't talk about games without suddenly getting political and shit

Actually, Factor #1 isn't 100% true. Remember the movie Norm of the North at least a little bit? If not, Chris Stuckmann said the kids in the theater playing that film wanted to leave.

No the competition was eaten so there are no other options on the market

@Lilyachty fan account idk - What competition was eaten? You mean console variety?

@Hunter Ansorge - Yeah, I don't get the guy, there's plenty of options to choose from four main platforms, while I consider consoles inferior to PC, you have that option, and Nintendo is it's own thing.

Pokemon in particular has this problem
Despite the continuous growth in not only budget, but team size as well, the game's quality have become shakier and shakier over time
And despite this, despite the overwhelming amount of flaws in the games, people still buy them as if it's the last time they'll ever be able to buy a game ever again
Initially, I was excited for sword and shield, that is until I saw the first screenshots and demos of it (that showcased a very unfinished looking game despite the proximity of the release) and I eventually lost interest entirely, not only in pokemon, but in modern nintendo as a whole, when I heard that pokemon (among others) were just not nearly as technically or mechanically deep as previous games (plus it didn't help it looked like a wii game despite the hardware being at least twice as powerful as the wii) but still sold as well (if not better) than almost any other game in the entire series
All's I'm saying is if a game doesn't look like it'll be as good as you were expecting, don't buy it, your instincts will probably ultimately end up being right

tbh im more into niche shit more (1-100k sub yt channels and rlly good ones)

@Grey Hood i don’t think they were talking about consoles..

That and ea and Activision own everything

@Lilyachty fan account idk remember nfl 2k

@Grey Hood the competition for example nfl 2k or madden edit also nfl blitz

Well it's either that or stepping into a noose.......

The problem is ea make good games that you can't buy without supporting their bad games

Just look at RDR2, that game is arguably the best game ever created imo and it’s a modern AAA game

@Grey Hood Fifa for example. Shit game, but they have all the contracts for interesting players. Stuff like PES can't compete when fans want their favourite players

This is honestly the source of many of our systemic problems. We just can't or won't stop paying for things that we shouldn't. A few people boycotting isn't going to change anything.
Also: Stop hate-watching Star Wars.

@Afqwa hate-watching are haters that hate something but then watch or buy it

@Staringcorgi6
Yes, that's my point. People should stop buying shit they know they won't like just because of hype. It won't change anything broadly, but at least you won't be a hypocrite.

It's why I despise the anti-SJW crowd. Nobody gets more triggered by media than they.

Too early. People buy them too early.

@Shade Pizza pirate those few games then

@Lilyachty fan account idk you can choose not to buy it. It's that simple. These are non essential items.

This is such a normie 5head comment. The floor is made out of floor

666 likes

@Grey Hood I'm assuming by "eaten" he was talking about smaller devs being acquired by larger companies. Westwood Studios has always stood out in my memory because Command and Conquer was one of my favorite franchises. But there are many, many more examples. Sometimes it works out, like when Xbox bought Bungie and made Halo their main launch title.

Or he might be talking about the AAA industry being consolidated with deals like Microsoft buying Bethesda Zenimax. Or Activision/Blizzard's merger. Or Tencent doing its best to devour the world. Or... The Embracer Group (dramatic music sting).

But it's not all doom and gloom - not all acquisitions end up erasing the acquired brand's identity. With EA it usually does... but that's EA.

Also indie games are a thing now, so we actually have more options than ever. And with increasingly powerful tools becoming available to them, the gap between AAA and indie games is shrinking. I love it, no matter how much the AAA's spend, a cheap ass game made by a handful of people can come out of nowhere and outdo them all.

Not me, haven’t bought a game in 5 years

it's like you didn't watch the video

And people won’t stop buying them

not all AAA games are bad stop thinking in black and white boomer

@No Peaceful Solotions Anymore I’m 22 😂

NES to 7th gen AAA games: SO AWESOME!!


(Most) 8th gen AAA games: SO BAD!!!



Indie games, Minecraft, and a very little amount of AAA games are still awesome today...

@Afqwathey're some good anti sjw people like dr shaym or possum reviews as he's now called because he's calm person and uses facts

@Afqwa I think rey is a bad charecter due to poor writing and progression

@Staringcorgi6
Niceness and calm is not civility. There is no such thing as a civil nor rational anti-SJW.

Only Nintendo are making good stuff that isn't cash grab (most of the time, The fact I'm even daring to say that just goes to show how games have fallen in a downward spiral)

Well that's because they like them.

@Absolute Schmuck RDR2 is the best triple A game? I'm not sure if it's better then GTA 5 and that's not even the best game Rockstar has made.

RDR2 was great tho

@TinyBearTim Nintendo
Microsoft
Sony

@launchbase Or at least the last few seconds

@Den Not even indie games?

@Her0 Switch is much much more powerful the the Wii, it's more powerful than the Wii U.

@Skillganon but there has not been a new GTA since 2013 and they don't realase any other games, they used to release 10 games in a period the same length as GTA V and RDR2 (last 9 years)

@Kynareth6 so what? That doesn't change the fact that RDR2 was worse then GTA 5. And neither of them are as good as San Andreas or Vice City. Now if you're looking for a reason why it takes them so long to make a game and why they don't make as many it's two fold. 1. People are dumb and keep giving Rockstar money via microtransactions. 2. They have some obsession with good graphics which are entirely pointless.

Because people that consume these games aren't giving a shot for research. Think about it. They mostly watch a trailer or an ad or don't even watch any of those, but encounter a new game in a platform then instantly buy it, if they're amazed by how it looks. Or perhaps their attention was caught by streamers playing it.

If people were so picky and actually have done, at least, basic research that is sorting out pros and cons from many reviews then this mediocracy trend would've died out by a longshot now. We aren't moving forward with this medium, but backwards, because games are only considered games. People play games for the sake of dopamine. When that runs out, they don't give a shit if the game is flawed or not, they will leave it due to being exhausted from dopamine overflow.

People keep buying MTX as well

@Luka Magic man you must be fun at parties

@Lilyachty fan account idk you mean the studios not named ea or bethdesda

@Her0 Pokémon stopped being as good for me after BW2

obviously you haven't seen ace combat

and they have no choice for some genres like for EA Sports' games

laughs in Pirate Bay

No.

Doom is still awesome though

@No Peaceful Solotions Anymore Wrong - All AAA games are garbage.

@Ham Bone 2 nah not really

we’ve had face

I had never seen him before, and I always wondered what he looked like. He’s so... average.

It wasn’t him

My god, are we seeing the man behind the downward spiral itself?

I'm not the only one?

@Ben David he did a video with hungrybox where he showed his face

That wasn’t him 😂

@Ben David You just have impossible expectations)

@Ben David yeah he's a human being! wtf so crazy! you probably shouldn't put specific expectations on peoples looks. its a bad habit.

@-
Link it please.

@The Big Dawg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFCeJdP63iU literally coulda searched it it's the second result

What are you on about? He's been showing his face since the State of the YouTube streams

Barfy Man/Henshin Kei he’s in the merch ad at the end

@Ben David I first saw his face in that Mumkey Jones video.

Couldn’t Disney and lucas film sue him for using admiral akbar in the way that he does, due to the fact that his channel generates real world revenue

@Munky He showed his face at the end of the video, dude.

@topburger To be fair, the human brain probably automatically tries to picture the person talking, and if it has nothing else to go on, it uses whatever clues it can pick out to try to put a face to the name, even if only by dialect, vocabulary, interests, etc.

*voice, not name

It's a trap!

If you watch videos of Emp with Rusty Cage and Mumkey Jones, you'd know what his face looks like.

His real face kinda looks like a guy who could bully you in school

@Balto Farlander More like that one high school computer nerd.

Same it’s odd but he’s moved on from that style of commentary videos. He now seems to make video essays which are still pretty good. I still like how some of his editing has a hint of his old ytps

I think apps like discord are very helpful for the impersonal issue

That's part of why most of my online gaming these days is in garry's mod. It helps me to connect with my friends, especially since I've been stuck in my home for the last six months.

yo cabal wassap its mac, also I agree

Even on bigger more recent games like overwatch, i remember seeing certain players multiple times over the course of a few months

@W Smith overwatch was great when it began it was just simple quickplay fun with my friends. the best moments were 6v6ing another group of friends then making friends with them through a party. it got so competitive so quick though and thats why i left

That's why I think going Free-to-Play was so disastrous for Team Fortress 2. Not because of the players themselves--having tons of new players is great--but because of the strain the new players caused. It saw the shift from community servers only, populated by regulars, to public Valve servers populated by randoms, which eventually led to matchmaking as we see it today. I still love TF2, even if I don't play it much anymore, but it's a shame to see what it is today compared to what it once was.

Some of the most fun I had online was on tiny tf2 trade and idle servers with friends I met on there, so I know exactly what you're saying.

@Henry Fleischer Yeah, and a lot of time online games have a sort of "party" feature so you can play with other players, which I prefer most of the time.

In tf2, certain less played maps usually have the same people in them. I saw this one sniper on doublecross around ten times.

So true man, as a kid I remember playing specific COD 1 & UO servers and seeing the same ppl almost daily

LOL WTF I WAS SCROLLING THROUGH THE COMMENTS AND HE SAID THIS AT THE EXACT TIME I READ THIS

@Josh Irby True discord could help, but there isn't a natural encouragement within the game to build a community, at least at a more personal scale. Matchmaking is obviously not just bad, but it suffers from that issue. There have been some attempts to at least mitigate that effect like for example, Overwatch had a system where if you want you can play with the same party again. I believe there could be a system which could have the advantage of matchmaking, while also not impersonalising, but it is a complicated issue, and I don't believe there is just a simple, easy to implement solution.

i like both (at the same time), but id rather sacrifice matchmaking over server browsers
the fact that server browsing is being neglected so hard these days, is definitely a crime against gaming

And in defense of local multiplayer fighting games still mainly thrive and function off of local play... However this is only because online play isn't very good on fighting games at the current day and it's taken a pandemic to force the genre to start changing.

CabalCrow I suppose you have a fair point as discord kind of operates as a little bit of a niche service

The problem more comes from the party games being created nowadays , though mostly fun, are online server heavy and not reliant on in person interaction


I’m not gonna have to play among us with people near me for example

The death of lobby persistence (on top of the fact that most people ditched lobby chat in favor of party chat) did make for a very impersonal CoD and Halo multiplayer experience, and that's why even after looking past the scummy microtransactions that replaced previously challenge-based cosmetic unlocks, I still no longer have any interest whatsoever in CoD or Halo. Emp said what I've been trying to say for the past 5 years - It's like playing against a bunch of very good CPUs. It's just not fun anymore

@Wolliver no F2P didn't kill tf2 but it saved it. What killed community servers is when Valve implemented casual mode into tf2 and that destroyed community servers. Before casual we had quick play which made it easier to join Valve servers and community server that hosted stock maps. I hate casual any ways due to hackers and I enjoy playing community servers since I see the same people everyday that enjoy playing/talking to them.

TurboPikachuX I lost interest in cod for a different reason, the server optimization. It’s infuriating to me to have to have so many massive Gig updates

Don't say that to any Call of Duty shill, it might tip them over the edge

The trouble is that matchmaking is incredibly valuable for creating balanced instances, especially for people that want to improve at a game. It might be helpful for games that rely on matchmaking to encourage players to team up more often, but I don't know how one would go about that.

The new gaurdians of the galaxy is fantastic

Escape from Tarkov is the only immersive gaming experience I've had in years.

Well do you really want that?

@Linus Zarrouk I do, but I... wait... You can't-

MY BRAIN!

It would be a very short video. Here's the script:

"Gamers as a whole are a diverse group of individuals with many differing interests and desires. To try and find what 'gamers' as a whole think would be like trying to find consensus about religion or taxes."

@TheAweDude1 Yeah, there are tons of games genre out there. Some people like it some don't.

It's unfair to use gamers in a general sense to make an opinion or a design choice of a game. Every gamer knows exactly what they want. I know what I want and what I want gaming culture to be. The thing is, not everyone wants the same thing, and some things people want contradicts with other gamers.

The answer is pretty short: "Gamers" isn't a demographic, as much as it is a group of demographics which share some common traits. It's a lot like "Car owners" or "homeowners" where attempting to generalize what "gamers" want is an exercise in futility, as while there may be some things all members can agree on, there's even more where they can't. What someone who plays platformers wants will often be very different than what someone who plays competitive FPSes wants, and trying to appeal to both at the same time will only end in disappointment.

@DatMageDoe This is why I want companies to stop prioritizing their games to "all" audiences and instead focus on advertising for certain demographics or types of gamers. No one game will be for "everyone". Yet they keep doing it, and while sure they maximize profits, it hurts almost everywhere else from the game's reputation, to legacy, to scaring ofd former and future gamers

@Dark Mess Unfortunately, we are whiny minority. Vast majority of people don't even give a shit what games are about sadly. As long as they pursue this "it's fun" point of view despite how utterly horseshit the product appears to be then this trend will never end until people wake up from this disilussional utopia and stand up for themselves. But I bet $100 people will faster quit gaming in general than use their brains to analyze how milked they are by corporations.

@David Monreeuz agreed. I literally have gone back to playing Minecraft with my friends on a heavily modded server because it's more fun and we can all play together lmao

@Puffle Point I love platformers too. My favourite game of all time is mario galaxy 2 and my favourite 2d platformer is tropical freeze.

Ahaha just put Mr. Geraldo of trivia in the game 😂😂

it totally was that 😀

No, it's a theme from TMNT games from back in the 90's I think

There was also a part when the video starts playing a 8-bit version of Billie Jean

incroyable

Emplemon needs to grow a spine if he whined about "toxiciy" in online games

It is, his music list called it literally that pretty much.

@No Peaceful Solotions Anymore How to excuse bad behavior 101.

>AAA Production
>Adventure time picture

@unkono Hmm yes, people that have jobs aren't allowed to like things

Which is a catch 22 since too often them playing it safe cost them billions trying to make millions. Investors are idiots when they don't really know about what they're getting into without people playing it safe about the people playing it safe. I've noticed this when the Shovelware started to be "normal"

@Pizzacubes hey he needs to put food on the table , its not like hes part of an indie title

@ThotSlayer Ah I figure, I'm just joshin' him

Hope you're fine, take care

The people who make the most impactful decisions need to have a personal assistant that watches the state of gaming as a whole, watches YouTube videos, surfs Twitter and has a discord for popular opinions regarding the game in question or genre....basically they need to hire someone who actually plays games and is aware of what people want from their games....people only spend money on things they like...why not get a cheat sheet?

AAAAASS!

He’s gonna take you back to the past

Didn't expect to see you here but im glad I did

Also, just a question I need answers for: does James still care about AVGN? or videogames for that matter? I know his main passion is film making and film history itself, that is what he studied for, but is he forcing himself to do AVGN episodes now? I've heard he has writers to make videos about games he never played. I liked the Chex video he made some months ago :(.

hi slap

"What were they thinking?!"

12:38 I'm way more impressed with the Knox reference XD

hey Slap I love your videos, funny seeing you here

The point was for them to point out the flaws in the industry so the industry could learn from it's mistakes. Of course everyone missed the point.

@Granpda Corey perhaps it is time that changed

@Granpda Corey How do you figure that?

Wait what are triple a games again? I srsy forgot lol

@NickThePringle basically games made by companys rather than indie titles which are still made by companys, but small and they have souls

@fabric since the general public doesn't care about anything but the big game companies with millions of dollars poured into advertisment of their games

@NickThePringle Big budget releases from large companies. The name AAA implies that the titles are essential purchases because of the amount of money and manpower poured into their development. It's a rather arrogant term.

@Granpda Corey Not at all.

tRiPle aAAaAaaAaYyyYYy

Yeah paradox interactive is great I’d recommend all their games especially stellaris

One of the reasons why I’ve been more drawn towards indie games over the past 6 years.

Eh there not that bad

No, there's plenty of terrible indie titles. Too many sniffing their own farts. You're not a "quirky" artist just for using pixel graphics in your action adventure platformer.

@aromardu this is true but the average for indie games isn't on a down ward slope, I'm not saying that indies games are always amazing ten out of ten games but frankly there are a lot more well like indie games nowadays than there are triple a titles which seem to be getting progressively worse. Also don't be that guy be fo the pretensions thing of "OoOoh you think your so UnIqUe by making your making pixelated? Ugh peasant." That and not all indie titles are pixel art style s piss off with that stupid sterotype

@MR Penguin it's more of a look at the majority rather than the whole.

Also *they're

@Nog goblin I what you mean

All of them are ass now in my opinion, the indie games coming out now don't interest me.

@Doom58 look harder

@Nog goblin tried can't find a game i can sink hours into.

@Doom58 new doesn't necessarily mean good, only looking at the new stuff won't exactly get you anywhere also most games are a hit or miss anyway

@Nog goblin I've been playing old stuff for so long I want new stuff too I feel like I'm missing out on something but I guess I was wrong lol.

@Doom58 the only "new" indie game coming out I can guarantee will be good is silk song if it ever even comes out

@Nog goblin the only indie game I feel like I actually like is cave story other than that I can't think of any.

@Doom58 expand your range, just go on reddit or something its easy to find recommendations, I personnally would recommend you hollow knight

@Nog goblin nah, looking at the trailer and characters i think it wouldn't be my cup of tea that new age artstyle everyone's going for isn't for me.

@Retrosta
Tbh the last AAA I found worth buying was half life alyx and RDR2
But hey those games actually had soul put into it

We don't speak of Rockstar online services...earning more off gta bucks and gold bars in rdr2 then they ever did off selling the actual game. Hence why gta:o is going to be split from gta5 soon and sold for 5 bucks

And mobile games

@Nog goblin And generally games that are priced at 60 dollars

@1 2 this is painfully true

@1 2I remember when mobile games used to be fun

@Nog goblin Same

Except Rockstar, they are still doing great.

@Lewa, Toa of Air why not play both?
You are missing out rdr2, sottr, uncharted and lods of other games

@Whaterman I didn’t say that it’s all that I play, now. Albeit, most of the Triple-A games I play are last-gen.
It’s a matter of taste. I’m sure Uncharted is great, I’m just not interested (and don’t have a PlayStation).

@Lewa, Toa of Air do you like rdr2?
its next gen but still great

@Whaterman I can see myself getting into it, but not in the near future. (I’d obviously not play it for the multiplayer.)

@NickThePringle examples: Call of Duty, Madden, Battlefield, the Mario games, aka very popular franchises

@aromardu any game made by a non company is an indie. This is the good ones we’re talking about here, and the good indies have been better than ever in recent years. Low effort crap indies have always and will always be a thing because of how easy they are to make, but that doesn’t mean that indie games as a whole are bad.

@Doom58 if a game/cartoon/whatever's community is preventing you from enjoying something, then you've got it all wrong

Also, just... Actually try those games, rather than give them a quick look and discarding them immediately?

@Nobody In particular when it comes to indie games the community is pretty much its only advertising, so if the community is obnoxious and stupid the game must be too.

i feel like when most people talk about AAA games being bad they're mostly talking about games from bethesda, ea, activision, ubisoft, etc

@Soup , listen, y'not wrong tho

Lmao at this point, everyone thinks that EVERY. SINGLE. TRIPLE A GAME IS THE WORST OFFENSE TO GAMING HISTORY.

Not every indie game is good same goes for AAA stuff

@Swapnil Gohil no one is denying it, the point id that the overall quality of triple A's seems to be going down

I miss when I could look forward to things nowadays I can’t

Large majority, and I mean LARGE majority, of indie games suck tho

@TSnintendogamer just because indie games exist and people review them doesn't mean that those games are good games worthy of anyone's time

That's because we only hear about the good indie games

Maybe everyone would benefit from watching the entire video first before making comments.
Triple A games nowadays are not the only problem when it comes to gaming. Mobile games started micro transactions. League of Legends proved the free to play genre was profitable. Then, games started taking the free to play game model and combining with micro transactions and then you had games as a service.
I like Rainbow Six Siege but at the same time it fits that description of a game as a service. You can pay for the game but you still won’t have everything unless you pay for all the characters. Oh no wait, you need this skin and this skin and this charm. Players are being nickeled and dimed for what is essentially eye candy.
Then you also had indie studios pulling early access bs. Day Z, Rust, Ark survival evolved.

The 2010s proved you can have an unfinished game and people would still flock to it. Hell you could have an addicting game with no real depth or fun like Flappy Bird and still make tons of dough.
Now because of this trend in gaming a lot of games are never really completed. Instead we are given a simple foundation of the game and a “roadmap” so that gamers can forever dream what kind of building will be resting on the foundation when it’s complete.

My point is Triple A companies may have corrupted some parts of gaming and indie studios as well but mainly the targeted audience’s taste or lack thereof is to blame.

This is not wrong. The feels

"yea bro you cool man, we play tomorrow night" 11th of january, 2013. my niga dead lol

Unrelated to the video

What does that have to do with this ?

Change 2012 to 2017 and that's my steam friends list.

No one can a 2010s game like Minecraft!!!

I dread the day when my friend will do that to me, I guess nothing lasts forever

That one horrible feeling you get when you recognize someone's pfp

Friends of 40 years dying = people not logging on

@Crunchy Lettuce what is it?

the pfp

Actually I'd say the opiate crisis literally killing our friends and family is the zoomer equivalent.

The 3DS was way better with single-card multiplayer. I'd say that was the peak, if anything.

@ProjectFM I think everyone's peak of Local Multi-player was when they had the most fun playing with their friends. Though as someone with little experience in this, I could see the Dreamcast or N64 being the peak for most people.

Going to other peoples houses just wasn't an option for a lot of people, so the DS's setup was perfect for that. Everyone brings their console instead of going to someone else's.

Nowadays the Switch offers that experience, plus you can take it anywhere you want

@Brocolyrics Yeah, the Switch is awesome, and contains a counterexample to every single point of the video. This entire video plays like EmpLemon forgot anything and everything that is good exists. Like he's being fed information from a spiral of social media that popularizes and circulates existential dread, and then assumes that means that videogames are actually getting worse.

@hexzyle yes. This, and for a lot of other forms of media honestly. I like his content but it all kinda reeks of "things were better back in the day" and that's even reflected in his political views

@Brocolyrics Yeah. I'm super passionate about indie games (larger, more hits, more support for sharing with larger audiences like itch.io, more diverse politically, more positive environment, more skilled developers, more couch multiplayer, and more innovative design than ever before in the last 20 years) and I intentionally seek the games and communities i enjoy hanging out in, and thus gaming has never been better than it is today. Sure, BIG CORPORATIONS are making blander and blander money grubbing skinner boxes disguised as games, but this applies to the top 1% of every media market. They are riding on the coattails of the success of flukes of less well-known devs, they are not steering the ship of "gaming" - when the games "industry" crashed in 1983, that didn't stop good games from existing. The existence of some rich company making something that flops has no impact on someone in their basement making the next Undertale, Risk of Rain, or Crypt of the Necrodancer

@hexzyle The peak for me was Xbox and ps2. Countless of co-op hours in the halo campaigns and local multiplayer. And countless hours playing turn by turn on the ps2.
The mechassault multiplayer was also a lot of fun. And I'll never forget the fun I had with midtown madness multiplayer.

It was so satisfying just finding the other player on the map.

Bomberman 2 on Super Nintendo, nuckaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Yeah, but Nintendo has always been the only game in town for handheld. If you and your friends all had handheld consoles, 95% of them would be Gameboy, GBA, DS, or 3DS, depending on the time period.

@Nelson Brown pretty much. Even the PSP and PSVita, which were pretty powerful handheld systems with respectable catalogues, are anomalies.

i like nascar

I have not noticed this

@sk8ter zane nascar is neat

I started caring about nascar because of him

What is interesting about watching cars go in circles?

@Henry Crabs what’s fun about watching people kick a ball around a field? Or someone hit a ball with a stick than run around a triangle? I think most of the enjoyment comes from being part of a community. I don’t enjoy watching NASCAR or any other sport for that matter but I can respect why one would.

guess what he just uploaded?

@Henry Crabs Watch his NASCAR videos lmao or if you're referencing those videos good job

Or the Simpsons are green

Pro tip: You can also realize this when you see “Emplemon” under the video that’s playing

@jrbowler84 uh... okay?

@jrbowler84 thats enlightening

Had no idea he was a NASCAR fan.

@Fries you clearly haven’t watched many of his videos then 😐

@give me your fukin cookies Didn’t discover him until mid last year, have watched a few before then, but none referenced it prominently.

@Fries he made a Dale Earnhardt video, who is a NASCAR DRIVER, two years ago

@give me your fukin cookies Will check that one out.

Problems will always exist, they're just different every time.

A true utopia is impossible to achieve.

I read this comment as he was saying it

@Antonio Klaic I kinda agree. That's because, from my point of view, humans aren't flawless by any means. All things that we do tend to turn badly and/or have negative effects.

@Supreme Person thanks

You definitely deserve the 200 likes. Who do you trust when there's 8 billion voices?

@Al WOnly Emplemon lol

@Tobie lol, yeah he's smart.

Fight night 1 was amazing love it

@Conor Parker Lol the knockouts were hilarious

@C S insane c s lol mate it was the thing on a friday night for me and like 8 other people wud get high and fight it out on fight night dude this wud go on till like 3am it was crazy

The problem with that is that games like Ocarina of Time still have people go back and play it and think it lives up to the hype even if it is their first time playing it. While some games only seem good due to nostalgia there are still a huge number of games that are universally loved.

Not true, I know a couple of people who have never played games like Melee, TF2 or Mario Sunshine but would rather play those instead of Smash Ultimate, Overwatch or Odyssey. Sometimes the old stuff is better.

nostalgia is only like 10% why gaming sucks now i can still find 1 or 2 games i like from the past 5 years

I play new and old games everyday. Some is nostalgia, especially for 5th generation titles, but most of it is legitimate.
The original FEAR(2005) is some of the most responsive and impressive single player shooting action ever presented, and it easily trumps any singleplayer FPS campaign.

Burnout 3(2004) has the some of the greatest audio/visual design of any racing game, and the slickest most satisfying arcade racing that I haven't experienced since.

The sense of speed in NFS:S(2009) is unmatched to this day despite having a direct sequel.

The NPC interaction and the physics presented in GTAIV were downgraded for the online-designed GTAV, so GTAIV(2008) still epitomizes the gameplay to the genre.

Far Cry 2(2008), despite some obnoxious game-play features and a story that's as transparent as vaseline, still has a distinct advantage in environmental and enemy interaction in the series, and the weapons feel much more powerful.
There are plenty of examples to show how screwed we are in game evolution, but one shining case against this is RDR2, that game is a true testament for what any game can be when it comes to graphic and design detail.

It's not even nostalgia. I just hate that contemporary games are designed around trying to peddle something to me like a door to door salesman at every given moment.

Want to collect all the shine sprites in Mario Sunshine, sure just go get them. Want to collect all the moons in Mario Odessey, don't forget to stop by the cosmetics store.

Want to unlock a weapon skin in MW2, better get more headshots. Want to get a certain weapon skin in Modern Warfare Reboot, better buy battlepass or lootboxes.

Want to buy a better weapon in Assassin's Creed 2, progress in the story and get it from the blacksmith. Want one in Assassin's Creed Unity, well you're not a high enough level to buy it normally, but you could get it with some Ubi-dollars.

Shadow of Mordor, a single player $60 game, trying to sell time savers and XP boosters to make their game less boring than the way they created it is the absolute epitome of everything wrong with developers being run roughshod by marketing and accounting.

Odyssey's movement controls and mechanics blow Sunshine out of the water. Modern Warfare's control refinement (balance) and customization beat MW2. And Unity's parkour, architecture, and combat are fantastic. But it's like that episode of Spongebob: "I feel like someone... IS TRYING TO SELL ME SOMETHING!" (He's onto us.)

I'm very much attached to my PS1 and PS2 games, because that's what I grew up playing, but whenever I try some of the most talked about video games at the time, it rarely lives up to the hype, just like many people may not enjoy the games I play on those older platforms now because nostalgia is what helps make that game good to me, replaying it is satisfying because it may be a good game in its core, but because it also brings back memories. I'm not one to shame people's likes and dislikes, everyone should be able to like whatever they want, but with the rise of the internet and online communities, it has bred somewhat of a different, weirdly incomprehensible type of human being that I have yet to understand (but respect) - the follower.

There are people that legitimately like things because they're popular, I've had talks in the past as to why they liked certain, older hyped games on the internet and they couldn't come up with a proper reason, it felt like they just liked it because it was universally liked, even if said games had the same problems or similar problems to games now-a-days that are considered bad and cool to hate on. Same for people that hate video games based on prebaked ideas, they read what people say online and cannot look past what other people had to say on the matter, they can't enjoy the good because they keep glaring at what was subjectively OR objectively bad about a video game, and don't make room to appreciate what they did right. We're developing a culture where we throw the whole sandwich away because of a weird looking tomato you can't unsee, because of the cynical and hateful nature of Online communities and "reviewers" that want to get clicks and brew up controversy between the fans and haters of whatever is being talked about in the comments section.

With all of this said, I think we can blame today's behavior on how irresponsible people were with the Internet, it has enabled and encouraged cynical, negative and mob mentality to be classed as something cool to take part of, this was briefly mentioned in the video and I have to agree. Social media is exactly like an unsupervised drug, humans historically love addictions and validation.

Cooper this isn’t true for me. 16 year old playing Mario 64 which is talked about like a gift from god was pretty disappointing. Fun, but pretty bad in comparison to other Mario games. No game is ever universally loved. I am pretty sure nostalgia plays a much bigger role than most people think, or at least how nostalgia hyping up old games makes the general public opinion better. Most the time I will not enjoy older games as much as newer ones, and this isn’t necessarily because of graphical limitations because I have played the original sonic trilogy to death.

@USS Liberty what is your point with oddyssey? the cosmetic store is free. it uses in game currency. the only reason it exits is to play dress up with mario.
Or do you like odyssey?

Precisely. It was even touted as a core feature of the system.

Games have only been on a downward spiral if you choose to ignore the superpower that made gaming what it is.

@greg's bucket of crimes Soviet Union?

@Promise I mean tetris is pretty important I think

Regal Killager Because Nintendo doesn’t release subpar games that everyone decides are instant classics because of the distributor’s name.

To my knowledge, Monster Hunter ain't local king

Crystal chronicles is a sad exception. No local :(

nintendo's multiplayer games are also graphically simple and/or not splitscreen. splitscreen cod in 2013 would be impossible on console hardware without majorly dropping fidelity.

@greg's bucket of crimes Uh Nintendo while they have allot of good things they still do a bunch of bullshit

Guy named Rick most of which exists outside of the development or quality of the games themselves. prices, bad virtual console replacements, scummy anticonsumerism etc. but the games stay good

@Joseph He uses the example of local via two systems connecting by proximity, so I count it.

@Bacon Sir oh, can you do that in Monster hunter?

Correct

"I made Daikatana"
-John Romero (Co-Creator of Doom)

@sander sepp "we don't talk about daikatana"
-everyone

Nice pfp mate

Doom 1 was the peak of John Romero's career. That being said, it lines up with another memorable quote...

"Because if its not fun, why bother?"
-Reggie Fils-Aimé

@4nt doom 1 shows that a game doesn't need a great story or breathtaking graphics to be good

“The game is so good, the water levels are good”

- videogamedunkey

Ngl I think doom is kinda boring both with mods and without and the new ones too. I was never a fan of backtracking simulator shooters. It gets frustrating trying to find the right way

@TheSpacedIsland i only had that problem in doom 2, doom 1 is really linear so i don't know how you can get lost there

"Also check out my new taco truck mobile game"

- Also John Romero.


I still love John Romero. It's the hair. It's made of pheromones and oxytocin.

@The polish schizo DOOM 1 was groundbreaking though, not just from a graphical standpoint but also from a gameplay standpoint.

I think a better example would be DOOM II, which looked and played no differently from the first yet was still fun.

@The polish schizo tho don't lie, the graphics were revolutionary for 1993

@The polish schizo including John Romero

not really, pokémon was in a civil war abot whether it is good or bad last time i had been a part of it, which was around june 2020

@MelecieDiancie That has nothing to do with the fact that it literally makes 2 of every mainline game to sell the same game multiple times

@Slenderquil Ramcharge oh. to be fair, i do think that was initially made to encourage trading as since neither player would likely have both versions and/or every pokémon in one version, they'd have to trade to get all of them

@MelecieDiancie I do think that it had good intentions to start, but as the interbet emerged and we got more trade evolutions, the dual release system became less relevant. At this point most of the dual releases just feel like an excuse to have people buy more copies of the same game.

@Slenderquil Ramcharge it is tradition at this point, however that they turned the second release (crystal, emerald, platinum) into double releases as well (b2w2, usum) could possibly be this

@MelecieDiancie It doesnt change that they are getting you to buy the same game twice. I am proud that they're trying to change up the next year rereleases though by making it a sequel or dlc.

@Slenderquil Ramcharge indeed, they seem like they aim to target the diehard fans because they're the only people who would have a reason to buy pokémon twice to get all the pokémon without trading

swsh dlc has a few advantages in it since it's cheaper (only $30 instead of $60) to get it if you already have the base game, but those who don't yet have to pay $90 to get the definitive experience compared to just $60 in previous gens

@MelecieDiancie My biggest problem with the swsh dlc is that you need to buy it again if you wanna play it on both copies of your game

Sad to say but this is starting to be true with recent Pokemon games

They didn't have to figure that one out really. Pokemon fans just like blowing money on pretty drawings.

@Rhavet literally every pokemon game past the second gen would like to have a word with you.

Wait no no they used to make the sprites prettier so you're right better graphics means it's a better, and changed game.

@Flood that sounds like a gacha, and mainline pokémon isn't a gacha

Some are moving back to physical media for movie and TV due to censorship. Movies and TV shows are being censored by streaming platforms making it to where the only place to see the original cut is to own the original DVD/Blu-ray! Heck they want to edit out Trump in Home Alone 2 because Orange Man bad! If I have that much of a problem with the orange man I'll just skip rewatching HA2. The vast majority don't give a shit!

Pokemon at least adds new mons and regions and whatever, i think he was refering to sports games, COD, assassins creed etc

Laughs in Gen four remake

@Adam Ski no they dont they are the worst at this, at least cod doesnt release cod black and cod white at the same time and the only difference is 6 guns and 5 skins they made exclusives to each game

@Conrad Lorgar cod creates the same game every year with very minimal changes. Pokemon at least will release a new roster and movesets, and change up the regions. For cod its either WW2, BO, or MW

@Adam Ski that's still not as bad as selling the same game at the same times but pretending its different but just locking off content for no reason

Pokemon makes the game about collecting pokemon then doesnt even give you all the pokemon in that region on your game, if call of duty did that with guns you wouldnt be defending it at all

@Conrad Lorgar pokemon is not about just catching them all, its about trading and cooperating with others who own the game, the reason each game have various different pokemon from one another is because the games were meant to be played in a way where you have to trade pokemon with other people to complete the dex. COD is shooting each other with the same guns every year with literally the same everything since 2008

@Adam Ski I think this argument never even began to make sense no matter what era of COD you are looking at. It perhaps makes even LESS sense nowadays considering that COD spent the better part of the 2010s struggling to find its audience back because, if anything, ever since Ghosts, you DIDN'T know what game you were going to get at the end of the year. The series kept bouncing back and forth between completely unrelated futuristic settings, WW2 and at one point one of the games (BLOPS 4) didn't even have a freaking campaign. COD has only sort of found stability again in Modern Warfare 2019 and Black Ops: Cold War, both of which use the same engine but they're really different games at the end of the day.

Even if you're talking about the unanimously agreed upon "golden era (2007~2012, COD4, WAW, MW2, BLOPS, MW3, BLOPS2), all of these are really different games overall. MW2 is a sequel to COD 4 not unlike any great sequel you'd see for any other series and does everything you'd expect and hope a sequel to do. The three Treyarch games (WAW, BLOPS, BLOPS 2) could not possibly be any more different from each other and from the three IW games (COD4, MW2, MW3). The only time the series had a "copy paste with minimal changes" problem was from MW2 to MW3, and COD fans absolutely railed that game for it at the time. It is probably the weakest game of the golden era, and even then, I'd still say it's mostly a fun game and it had several improvements over the previous game.

It's a shame because Pokemon has so much potential. But any semblence of creativity dried up in the franchise years ago. It really is basically the same game over and over again. And it brings the money rolling in so what's going to stop them?
Not to mention that Sword and Shield, which should have been the greatest one yet, was easily one of the worst.

@ MelecieDancie

Actually, paid have hated this practice since at least 2007. Probably earlier.

nobody buys both counterpart pokemon games lmao

I agree with that 💯

Split into parts

if there's more bad stuff than before even though we have way better technology then we have a consumer problem, "looking harder" is not an excuse to let companies do bad entertainment and not be vocal about it

Just like Mortal Kombat games, there are the really popular one like mkx and then there’s mk11 (but on the plus side if the game didn’t exist we wouldn’t have gotten the masterpiece of rapping that is kk in wheelchair)

Not at all, on gaming you got whole dead genres, not even exaggerating.

true, especially horror theres so much trash now

A lot of his criticisms can also be applied to movies, in fact.
"Now that CGI has reached its peak, it just doesn't impress people anymore if the movie has good visuals and nothing else."
"People are willing to pay money for the newest Transformers movie, even though it's just the same garbage repackaged over and over again."
"Now that movies have been around so long, it feels like everything's been done. Now all you see are remakes and reboots, which everyone agrees are worse than the originals."
"The audience used to be discerning - now some snot-nosed children go out and see the Jimmy Neutron movie and ruin the fanbase for everyone."
These are all results of the game industry growing and maturing. Sure, it kinda sucks, but that's maturity for you.

Movies will always be good for now. A24 do be the shit 😍

Movies like Annihilation, that were smart, interesting and thought provocating were absolutely shafted because they were different and general audiences want the same nostalgia bait shit.

It's the same with movies, anime, with everything, because this video is not about video games, it's about society in general, and the influence of social media over our enjoyment of everything

I 100% agree with you, like emp said people make up their minds before they even consume the media they are judging. It all results in mob mindsets where people aren't forming their own opinions on something.

The same goes for music.

We shouldn't need QUANTUM BINOCULARS, though!
XD

Movies are even worse. Disney’s is litterly remaking shitty versions do their own movies. Like all of the popular ones. Could y u have imagined that before 2010?

I remember the exact moment I didn't wanna watch hero movies anymore, I was in the theater watching avengers, and it felt like I already had watched that before, the characters telling jokes out of nowhere, comic relief scenes after any scene that is anything remotely close to being serious, and in the end, it was a success, and then I knew the formula was already saturated and everything else would be the same since it was a success, a few weeks ago I watched end game just to be sure and yeah, it's still exactly how I imagined it would be.

Nah, Hollywood is at the lowest point it's ever been.

i honestly think the 2010s were a better decade for film than the 2000s, but i might be biased or uninformed. or both

@BlackLegg definelly both

I always say about anime that too really enjoy anime you gotta be able to overlook the cringe (Shit like characters coming back to life, power of friendship, that sort of thing) and the same honestly applies to movies and video games, literally all media has problems but if you don’t let the small issues bother you too much you tend to be much less miserable and enjoy much more content out there

Just enjoy good stories, graphics, music, gameplay, etc. don’t let some political commentary drive you into a reactionary frenzy or the game being a little shorter than you hoped, or the game not having as nice of graphics as it could and most importantly remember that social media is quite literally designed to keep you as angry as possible for as long as possible

@Skrenja ever heard of the great depression

@chocolate thunder9172001 Obviously I am referring the the quality of films, not output.

I feel like Disney just consumed everything movie wise, Marvel movies being the most obvious example

That's how I feel about the new Star Wars movies. Most people complain about how "bad" they are but I'm just grateful Star Wars was revived by Disney to allow me to watch more movies in the same cinematic universe.

"You just got to look harder" you keep saying that as an excuse for games to get worse.

@Lúzia A Morta grammar check ;)

@Lúzia A Morta games are already getting worse. and everyone lets it happen.

@Lúzia A Morta i used to love certain franchises but they became shittier at least in my opinion and now i cant find any game i can sink into.

@Lúzia A Morta arena fps (halo, quake, doom, preferably multiplayer) but since that genres dead im getting into rpg's with stat customization (ultima 3, elderscrolls daggerfall)

@Lúzia A Morta thanks what i meant to say was "games with dnd-like character sheets"