As I dont disagree that local is more or less fun than online, local multiplayer had always had drawbacks as there are people, myself included, whos living conditions used to limit their access to other people with local multiplayer.

Online has granted access to many people to connect to others.

The main issue is, used to be you could choose between the two, now they make them near online exclusive. I remember playing split screen bo2 zombies with friends and having the time of my life, but now cod either doesn’t give you the option or you have to jump through 30 hoops to get there.

@Nicholas Kieler Have you tried Parsec? It works pretty darn good.

@Nicholas Kieler Have you tried Parsec? It works pretty darn good.

I wish there were more good big mobile games, like games where you buy it once and there are no ads, no micro transactions, just fun stuff like Bluetooth multiplayer and level editors, Mobile games like Labyrinth 2 and Badland had all of these things and those were like the 2 main games I played on my iPod as a kid, me and mou brother and my freinds would play on multiplayer on labyrinth 2, we didn’t have a computer or internet so it was hard to use the level editor on labyrinth 2 because you need a computer to use it and we only could play multiplayer games over Bluetooth

@O’Reilly Auto Parts Yeah it's pay to win

@O’Reilly Auto Parts Yeah it's pay to win

Absolutely. None of my acquaintances play video games so LAN just wouldn't be possible. Online play allows me to play with randoms.

I think he meant more of the novelty aspect of local multiplayer.

Besides how many games are there in the present that still support split-screen other than Halo Infinite coming?

what ruined online games is not them being online, but rather matchmaking. matchmaking is the cancer that killed game communities and made it impossible to organically make friends while playing games.

I have only gone over to play video games (or hang out at all) at a friends house less than 50 times, and I grew up in the perfect era to do so, or maybe the era just after that.

@The Louster Yeah, multiplayer toxic it bring stress and uncontrolable emotion when local coop fun and joking around coop friend.

Ethan Matz Inferior in what way? I always have infinitely more fun doing couch coop with my friends than online.

Do you mean quantity? Yes, of course it’s better. Quality? That’s more difficult. Online play experience is heavily determined by internet connection and the people you play. The first one you have to pay for, the second’s a toss up, most of the time landing on the toxic side.

Doesn’t mean the industry should completely do away with local multiplayer. To do so is absurd.

As long as there’s human interaction there will always be a demand for local co-op.

@JFJ Thank god for Parsec and Fightcade.

@JFJ Thank god for Parsec and Fightcade.

I think they were talking about online with strangers.

I think they were talking about online with strangers.

Which is why games should have found a way to have BOTH online multiplayer and local multiplayer in the 2010s.

Same. I had no siblings and non of my friends played videogames or liked them. I used to dream about online multiplayer then I grew up and realised that as a woman that wasn't nearly as fun as I thought it would be.

Local cowboy sock puppet knows what’s up

Local cowboy sock puppet knows what’s up

@Cornelius McMuffin Server based multiplayer is easily far more healthy and less toxic than matchmaking.

I have roblox servers to thank for meeting my oldest online friends. I'm still in contact with them today.

Ngl I was sad when I realized how much of my games actually lack "local multiplayer", like I was thinking "is it not even an option anymore?"

yeah and just like with reddit it proved why certain people dont have friends to play with IRL in the first place

emp’s argument failed to take into account that you can have friend groups that don’t live in your neighborhood

Online is good, but the fact that us players need to pay for practically 0 added benefits other than the privelage to play. The option to have both would've been the godsend.

And I live alone in a rural area. I have since I was a kid. Back in the 90s online play was such a big deal to me for those reasons.

Then the need for better internet connections hit and it became my biggest bane. Rural area = satellite internet or dialup.

And lan is a thing of the past. Fucking steam version of Dawn of War actually removed that.

So the point is why can't we fucking have both?

He wasn't saying online multiplayer is bad or even worse than local. He's just discussing problems that stem from games being online only like feeling more isolated.

Yeah i went to a crappy school back then where kids didnt play pokemon or just didnt have ds's

That and 4 player split screen on a 12 inch TV is pretty painful

That and 4 player split screen on a 12 inch TV is pretty painful

@Ethan Matz  "No couch coop is a far inferior experience than online play"

Agreed. Although ill go further and say all couch coop is superior to online.

@Zym No couch coop is a far inferior experience than online play. It's why it's an after thought today for all but a small minority. That analogy you made made zero sense. False reasoning if you will.

And the experience is worse. You're basically saying, not everyone has access to ice cream, therefore eating rice is a better experience. It's just false reasoning.

the main thing that annoys me is games that don't have split screen that used to. COD has maximum two player split screen. So many games could add in split screen for basically no effort and it would make it 1000X better, but they make you play online instead of being able to do both.

@BananaPhoPhilly Only because the tech wasnt there. Now it is...

@BananaPhoPhilly Only because the tech wasnt there. Now it is...

Which is why it should be an option, just like online...

Which is why it should be an option, just like online...

Also playing 4 player split screen was atrocious to look at

Also playing 4 player split screen was atrocious to look at

He's not saying totally remove online multiplayer stupid -_-<br>He's saying still have it as an option. Id like very much to play halo 5 with my sisters but cant without buying another xbox... and TV.... and copy of halo....

He's not saying totally remove online multiplayer stupid -_-
He's saying still have it as an option. Id like very much to play halo 5 with my sisters but cant without buying another xbox... and TV.... and copy of halo....

But online also has drawbacks

And its fun being in the same room and you get no lag

But online also has drawbacks

And its fun being in the same room and you get no lag

No one said having online makes a game worse, it's that LACK of LOCAL play is an issue for many modern games. Despite the benefits of online, it has more hoops to jump through and is less personal than local play. Without local, everyone needs to buy their own console/computer, copy of the game, and in the case of consoles, an online subscription to play multiplayer at all, even with friends. And you can't play in the same room as a friend without lugging your hardware to eachother's house.

Wanna play Overwatch with your sibling, spouse or kid you live with, but you play on PS4 and use a cheap laptop for work? Prepare to either a) buy two mid to high range laptops and a mouse for each, along with two digital copies of the game, or b) buy a second PS4, a second copy of the game, and a seperate ps plus subscription for them, while renewing your own sub if necessary, as well as hauling a second tv into the living room unless you wanna have to shout at eachother through the hallway.

just listened to your episode of forehead fables yesterday and here you are lol

small world

just listened to your episode of forehead fables yesterday and here you are lol

small world

That is a good point, but the majority of people in our society COULD  make time to play couch multiplayer and/or find friends within the town/city to play with. The fact that all of us abled people decide not to see each other is the problem.

I thank that's what emp was trying to say. I hope that didn't come across as ableist and rude.

Okay but i cant play shit with 2 people sitting in the same room as me unless they shill out $450+ for a console and what ever online multiplayer only game that were trying to play just to all get booted since my internet sucks yeah real big smooth brain play getting rid of couch coop

Yeah Finding a subrebbit for a game like, animal crossing for example, and playing with people all over the world is fun because I can’t play local with anyone

I also disagreed with this part of the video for slightly different reasons. My friends and I are all in our 30s and it's just easier to play games over the internet than it is to all get together and sit in the same physical space. I have lots of friends, but many of them have wives, kids, jobs, and live more than a block away from me. Lots of games come out nowadays with local coop only (Cook Serve Delicious, Wizard of Legend, Cuphead, etc.) This always annoys me because they are amazing games with 0 online support and don't even get me started on Steam Couchplay which is the laggiest thing in the world.

When you don’t have the social life DLC 😔

When you don’t have the social life DLC 😔

Online multiplayer streams are how I met one of my best friends

Online multiplayer streams are how I met one of my best friends

I would say server based, something like gmod, if you don't like the server there's hundreds of thousands of more to choose from and you want friends you can just invite them.

100%<br>I haven't played a local multiplayer game with people in years, simply due to not having anybody to play em with within like 50 miles. And being on pc kinda means i dont really have anywhere for people to comfortably sit lol.

100%
I haven't played a local multiplayer game with people in years, simply due to not having anybody to play em with within like 50 miles. And being on pc kinda means i dont really have anywhere for people to comfortably sit lol.


My main gripe against modern games is the fact that a lot of times they are just not designed to end. You play it until you can't force yourself anymore and then looking back at the game there is no real satisfaction or nostalgia. My favorite games of all time have been games that I can look back on and think "wow I loved that game so much". Chrono Trigger, earthbound, mother 3, escape from monkey Island, etc. Its better to be sad that a game has reached its end then to be happy that you finally left the game.

Jak and Daxter 1 is one of the only games I completed 100%. I loved nearly every minute of it

Like how Crash Bandicoot 4 added in a metric fuckton of recycled levels and collectibles

I dont know why but i always want to play the new assassins creed games until a few hours in i realiz again that its just not really fun. I played assassins creed odyssey for over 100 hours and im not even nearly finished with the main story. And i dont even have the full map discovered. It just so big but filled with the same brainless nonsence over and over. I dont think that i will ever be able to play that game till the end

Check out Palia. If you like casual games that is... it's going to be a free to play multiplayer community game about finding why your human species has randomly disappeared from existance and then reappeared on Earth. There's ruins to explore, gardening, fishing, cooking, decoration, community driven fun such as making a town, gathering goods to sell, using gliders like in botw and I think there's hunting and taming. You get to have weapons such as bows I'm unsure if there will be monsters but there is a good chance...there might be some monsters against you when searching for the truth. Alchemy, magic, yada yada you get the idea. They are still in the alpha phase, however not sure if closed beta is next or alpha since they just had their pre-alpha very recently but they are up to speak with anyone regarding the game. I don't think they will just have humans as playable species, they might have a ton of those wierd gremlin people with pointy ears and purple, green, blue skin as either an unlockable or stage in their content. There could be phases to this "adventure" they are speaking of so it is best to be there at the start. However, again, do be aware they are not fully done with the game yet. Time will tell. Please be respectful and patient.

@Lord Jackass love this comment. I must say i am a HUGE sucker for fun movement systems. ODM from the attack on titan tribute game, bhopping from cs:go, janky tech from super mario world rom hacks, i love them a lot and yet they arent games designed to "end" necessarily

Yeah the fact a lot of modern multiplayer games have “seasons” where content can only be obtained once in the games life and never again forced me to grind for something I didn’t wanna grind for. I’m glad I stopped playing CTR Nitro Fueled

I wanna take some time and analyze this some, not this comment particularly, just the sentiment. it's gonna be long so don't read this if you don't wanna discuss this.:

I believe that immersion can be broken up into two categories, and games usually fall into one of those two catagories.: Narrative Immersion and Mechanical Immersion. Individual players will usually favor games and franchises that have a focus on one of these types of immersion with breaks to experience the other type of immersion.

Narrative immersion is fairly obvious, they're games that have a focus on being an interactive story, and they'll emphasize as much. Starting the game up and losing yourself in a world and universe of good characters, writing, events and intrigue that, are more reminiscent of the joys of a good book. Games that really cater to the audience with this interest are games like Monkey Island, Sam and Max, Grim Fandango, and Maniac Mansion. A lot of point and click adventures fall into this catagory, but aren't stereotypical for narrative immersion as a whole, after all we have games like Bioshock(1,2, and Infinite), Assassin's Creed(1-3), and World of Warcraft that worked really well within this framework. Another genre that falls into this catagory has the fairly unkind description(as Ahoy has mentioned) of Walking Simulators.

Mechanical Immersion is one that isn't as obvious in it's description but is obvious in it's experience. Games that have engaging mechanics and gameplay but with less emphasis on story. Games like these are good at replicating what's called the Flow State. That experience that every player has gone through of playing so well yet being challenged enough, that in your mind the controls just melt away, the moment the world around you fades and the game becomes an experience in of itself, and the experience just comes naturally to you. Excellent examples of this are Guitar Hero, DDR, Rock Band, DOOM, Battlefield, CoD, Twisted Metal, Forza, Mario Kart, and Crash Team Racing amongst a plethora of others. This is where I prefer to hang my hat.

Games that have an end are easier to have an appreciation for, and are more likely to be remembered as works of art, just as we've seen with books. I feel that for a game to not have an end, it must deliver on a good mechanical immersion in order to ensure it's survival and/or be remembered fondly(weirdly enough, Quake has done this.). Narrative immersion would be impossible to achieve if there is no end to the game, because ALL stories must come to an end. it's just that in regard to multiplayer games, a lot of the business models we've seen implemented over the last decade or so have watered down the experience as a whole, making mechanical immersion much harder to achieve.

I wanna take some time and analyze this some, not this comment particularly, just the sentiment. it's gonna be long so don't read this if you don't wanna discuss this.:

I believe that immersion can be broken up into two categories, and games usually fall into one of those two catagories.: Narrative Immersion and Mechanical Immersion. Individual players will usually favor games and franchises that have a focus on one of these types of immersion with breaks to experience the other type of immersion.

Narrative immersion is fairly obvious, they're games that have a focus on being an interactive story, and they'll emphasize as much. Starting the game up and losing yourself in a world and universe of good characters, writing, events and intrigue that, are more reminiscent of the joys of a good book. Games that really cater to the audience with this interest are games like Monkey Island, Sam and Max, Grim Fandango, and Maniac Mansion. A lot of point and click adventures fall into this catagory, but aren't stereotypical for narrative immersion as a whole, after all we have games like Bioshock(1,2, and Infinite), Assassin's Creed(1-3), and World of Warcraft that worked really well within this framework. Another genre that falls into this catagory has the fairly unkind description(as Ahoy has mentioned) of Walking Simulators.

Mechanical Immersion is one that isn't as obvious in it's description but _is_ obvious in it's experience. Games that have engaging mechanics and gameplay but with less emphasis on story. Games like these are good at replicating what's called the Flow State. That experience that every player has gone through of playing so well yet being challenged enough, that in your mind the controls just melt away, the moment the world around you fades and the game becomes an experience in of itself, and the experience just comes naturally to you. Excellent examples of this are Guitar Hero, DDR, Rock Band, DOOM, Battlefield, CoD, Twisted Metal, Forza, Mario Kart, and Crash Team Racing amongst a plethora of others. This is where I prefer to hang my hat.

Games that have an end are easier to have an appreciation for, and are more likely to be remembered as works of art, just as we've seen with books. I feel that for a game to not have an end, it must deliver on a good mechanical immersion in order to ensure it's survival and/or be remembered fondly(weirdly enough, Quake has done this.). Narrative immersion would be impossible to achieve if there is no end to the game, because *ALL* stories must come to an end. it's just that in regard to multiplayer games, a lot of the business models we've seen implemented over the last decade or so have watered down the experience as a whole, making mechanical immersion much harder to achieve.

that's why i really wish we had more games like shadows of mordor, the story is ok but everyone gets their own randomly generated enemies and the randomness combind with the nemesis system means you can make ur own story and extends the gameplay beyond just boring quests. orc tries to kill you because u killed his brother gets killed comes back to life goes mad and is now your new insane bodyguard.

nowadays seems like the closest thing we'd get is multiplayer padding or roguelites

to be honest i think thats a lot down to gamers, any AAA game that falls in under 60 hours of gameplay and infinite endgame just gets met with derision for not having 'enough content' - just cue the angry joe clips

Thank you for being an original person. Good comment.

Same.<br>Some of my favourite game like Crash 2 and Pikmin 1 aren't usually long except maybe for Enter The Gungeon. Everything needs to end at some point for something else to begin, that's what makes life interesting.

Same.
Some of my favourite game like Crash 2 and Pikmin 1 aren't usually long except maybe for Enter The Gungeon. Everything needs to end at some point for something else to begin, that's what makes life interesting.


This video pretty much answers why older games are increasing in price and why indie games/developers are getting more attention/respect these days.

Indie titles tend to offer more bang for buck, so I buy those in most cases.

@Diego V Plus there are only so many NIB copies of any game, especially ones stored with the right level of care to appeal to collectors, and that number only decreases over time. Scarcity is a pretty effective market force, especially when it's not artificial.

It's also funny how backwards compatability is now a major selling point of modern consoles, buy the new Xbox, to play the games you had on the old one with better graphics and performance. It's nice, but it's like putting an old engine in a brand new race car because the newer engines are too much of a headache to want to use. I should want to play the latest games on my new console, but I don't. That's a problem.

Nah even if this was gaming best era nostalgia would still make old games expensive at a certain point

Indie games is where the old "Middle Simple Games" migrated to after the major companies dropped them.


It boggles my mind how, for the same amount of memory it takes to download a patch for a broken, rushed videogame today, I could download countless of the best videogames of all time from the 90's and 00's.

@Frankie Crowley LMAO this is just bad reasoning

Retro-gaming is also a much more fun community.

Right. What bloats game size are image files. The higher quality image, and more varied the textures, means you have to dedicate more and more storage as graphics get better and better. A game that can clever reuse textures will be smaller than a game that has different biomes and environments each with their own textures.

That is why I stopped buying new games when they came on DVD. There is far too much space the designers just fill it with crap. Even a CD is a bit large, but a least 650MB concentrates the programmers mind a bit. Upscaled on a modern PC, PSX games are brilliant but Mega Drive is even better.


<b>The</b> most immersed I’ve been in a game, weirdly has been Call of duty 2 on PC, something about having to retreat while German infantry and tanks are mowing friendlies down, then jumping into a trench and mowing them all down with an infinite ammo MG42 sets a spark in me.

*The* most immersed I’ve been in a game, weirdly has been Call of duty 2 on PC, something about having to retreat while German infantry and tanks are mowing friendlies down, then jumping into a trench and mowing them all down with an infinite ammo MG42 sets a spark in me.

@_ gouda yeah CoD2 MP on PC has always had a decent little community. It's still really fun. I've played probably 2000+ hours on X360 and PC over the last 17 years.

Yeah, Call of Duty 2 is still amazing. The russian campaign in particular. There's nothing quite like those sections where you crawl through trenches with tanks driving overhead or destroying that German-occupied building.<br>I just played the multiplayer for the first time a few days ago and was surprised to see there were still some people playing.

Yeah, Call of Duty 2 is still amazing. The russian campaign in particular. There's nothing quite like those sections where you crawl through trenches with tanks driving overhead or destroying that German-occupied building.
I just played the multiplayer for the first time a few days ago and was surprised to see there were still some people playing.


"The death of local multi-player" felt that one, my little sister decided she wanted to play a game with me, I went searching my collection for something we could play together. I first went for the PS4, because it was the newest, there was nothing to play together, I had to pull out my ps3, a console as old as she is, so we could play a game.

I speak of experience when I say "I'd rather have online multiplayer than local exclusive." <b>sighs in Wild Guns Reloaded</b>

I speak of experience when I say "I'd rather have online multiplayer than local exclusive." *sighs in Wild Guns Reloaded*

@Tzer just went the mame launchbox route myself, good stuff.

@Tzer just went the mame launchbox route myself, good stuff.

@MJGaming57 I feel you I have 2 game friends but both live in different places.

@MJGaming57 I feel you I have 2 game friends but both live in different places.

games that have multiplayer function on consoles that are actually modern:

Minecraft, Many nintendo games(not mii) such as mario party, racing games from nintendo such as mariokart, mario tennis. Honestly you just have to look for something in this day and age... it isn't all pretty, but it gets the job done. Minecraft is given great views since it has tons to do, tons of content, still being updated to this day, and literally there are fucking mushroom cows and golems with big noses...why wouldn't you play this game.

@MJGaming57 I think a big part of that has to do with motion controls and the player experience in Splatoon requiring both high visibility vertically and horizontally, that most people achieving by flicking around with motion control constantly, and you just can't do a good job replicating that experience when you need to show two POVs on the same 16:9 screen. You'd likely need two Pro controllers as well, adding the kind of friction to the multiplayer experience Nintendo seems to be avoidant of. Just imagine getting fucking trolled by rollers landing on you and coming from right next to you because you have no situational awareness, or people ulting you from off-screen, you can't hear the sound cue from the ult properly, people hiding in ink that you don't notice cause your FOV is so small. It would be a nightmare. It's also incredibly dependent on sound cues that are even better when you wear a headset. I could see the single player levels being playable split-screen with diminished quality of the player experience but the head-to-head multiplayer would be busted for sure.   I do wish they had split-screen unlimited salmon run tho, even if you got no rewards for it.

@TheJRMproductions True. The switch actually does have a good amount of local co-op. Maybe Nintendo is the only company in this space that values those sort of experiences?

@Larry Sellers LMAO are you serious? Thats fucking crazy. Activi$ion has just continued to dig their own grave deeper and deeper,but.... is this your homework, Larry?

@Tzer You could customize it like a car. It could run most games, depending on your pc specs. I think you're right about this

@wackyclock you could play LAN gmod, minecraft, heck even doom. Use zandronum for doom

@iCheckered also most fighting games have local multiplayer in my experience

@iCheckered also most fighting games have local multiplayer in my experience

That's literal bullshit lmao. There's a ton of multiplayer games you can play on PS4, when my brother bought one we'd split screen BO3 when it was first out, 2K and Borderlands 2. Your sister probably didn't wanna play the games you had, or the ones you could find because I will admit they don't have as many local multiplayer games as the older consoles but stop the cap 🧢

Emulate N64, it's your only hope Obi Wan.....

Emulate N64, it's your only hope Obi Wan.....

Thankfully the re are local games on steam yay

Thankfully the re are local games on steam yay

i live in a small town in a poor country and i'am one of the only people with a switch, it feels sad that i can't play splatoon 2 with someone, even if i had friends

nintendo switch is pretty good for local multiplayer though

nintendo switch is pretty good for local multiplayer though

Lol the PS3 isn't even that old unfortunately. Shows how quickly we've gone astray.

No modern games that I have have local multiplayer.  The Dreamcast is the last console that I have games with local multiplayer for.  I ended up skipping the seventh generation console generation so I don't have a PS3 of Xbox 360.  I have a Xbox One (have not been able to find a PS5 or Series X) and no game on it has local multiplayer.

Nintendo is the only one left doing this

Nintendo is the only one left doing this

@Altan Déméi Goddamn, that sounds like it was a blast. The videogame industry of the 2010s shit the bed HARD by thinking online multiplayer could completely replace local multiplayer.

13:50 since I've ever found this song, I never wanted less quality -wave.

13:50 since I've ever found this song, I never wanted less quality -wave.

You are suffering from a condition called /v/ burn out.

You are suffering from a condition called /v/ burn out.

Wanted to play gears of war 4 with my dad, had 2 offbrand controllers that had worked with all other games since I bought them. <br>But here you NEED xbox controllers otherwise you cant play co-op.

Wanted to play gears of war 4 with my dad, had 2 offbrand controllers that had worked with all other games since I bought them.
But here you NEED xbox controllers otherwise you cant play co-op.

This was one of the reasons I ended up getting a switch.

This was one of the reasons I ended up getting a switch.

@wackyclock go play sm64 multiplayer and you will see<br>also emulators allow one to usetheir old multiplayer games once again

@wackyclock go play sm64 multiplayer and you will see
also emulators allow one to usetheir old multiplayer games once again

@Tzer that got nothin to do with local multiplayer

@Tzer that got nothin to do with local multiplayer

At least Nintendo still has some solid local multiplayer titles. Like Mario kart and smash

the only ones we get is Lego and some Nintendo games, othetwise you have to turn to indie games

That’s why you get an Xbox and play backwards compatible games with modern performance

@Kelper Moon I still have yet to finish that in local co-op, but only because my buddy and I put it down two years ago and I dropped him like a stone two weeks ago because, well, he's a fucking pussy who couldn't back himself up IRL, let alone his friends. Co-op's fun until the only friend you have to play with is the living embodiment of your place in life and the mindset that brought you there. We all have to grow up sometime.

Diablo3 and Worms are cool. But i hate that nothing new comes out for couch co op

Diablo3 and Worms are cool. But i hate that nothing new comes out for couch co op

I'm the as you.  Literally barely any games have split screen nowadays, I miss it :/. Dont get me wrong some games still have split screen, but it's just very limited

I remember back as far as when my brother and I got a 360, and we thought we could play a split screen game together, and literally none of the games we had supported split screen, aside from like Madden which was really weird coming from the PS2

All I have to say is thank God for the MMC I got my friends playing halo it was great until the Fortnite nation attacked

@metal wellington it’s not that bad but thank you

@metal wellington it’s not that bad but thank you

@MJGaming57 I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say that our hearts go out to you in what must surely be the most terrible experience of your life.

I’ve wanted to play splatoon 2 with other family and friends since I’ve bought it. But none of my friends either have a switch or have splatoon. Only one friend...

@Jordan L. I played over 100 hours playing halo 4 with my family and friends and I got so sad when halo 5 didn’t even have split screen

Switch still has plenty of that, I play mario kart, smash, mario party, all the time with my friends.

@CaptainSzasz the issue isn't not being able to play split screen games, the issue is that most modern games aren't split screen.

It's especially frustrating when game franchises used to have split screen, but removed it in the newest releases.

Maybe buy more games that support split screen. You shouldnt have too much trouble.

@Zedkiller1101 that looks like a mix of Dark souls and Skyrim, and it has split screen.

...I think I'm in love.

Outward is a good splitscreen game on current gen, watch Sseth's video on it.

Outward is a good splitscreen game on current gen, watch Sseth's video on it.

Halo 5 removing split screen entirely made me not want to play it, because for me a significant part of the fun of games is playing with people (I can enjoy games with friends but hate playing them alone)

And if I have to buy TWO copies of a game, and (in the case of Halo 5) a SECOND console to play with my siblings, then I won't enjoy it as much.

Replayability (for me) is also pretty dependant on wether or not I can play with friends, I can play the same game for years and have just as much fun throughout if there's other people, and the easiest way to play with people I enjoy playing with is couch CO-OP.

Going back to Halo as an example, I have played Halos 1 through 4 several times over, going through the campaigns or messing around in Forge/custom gamemodes with my siblings (mostly through split screen), but I played the campaign of 5 once, and then never picked it up again because none of my friends own an Xbox/Halo 5.

I remember, my 2 brothers and I all had a DS and mario kart. One evening our parents took us to eat at a restaurant and at one point while waiting for them to finish their dessert we went to the game room, we all had our DS with Mario Kart and we started playing, then another kid and his sister entered the room, they also had DSs but only one cartridge for the both of them but it didnt mattered, we could all play together. We spent like an hour on the balloon battle mode duking it out before our parents were done with their meal. Nowadays i dont think i could do that with my switch even on mario kart 8 or mario party, i miss that feeling of "anywhere, anytime with anybody"

My little brother and I thought we could play local split screen on Black Ops Cold War but apparently Activision didn’t finish it yet, even though there’s literally a split screen tab to click on in the menu. Lazy assholes.


Great take! One minor dispute - the move to multiplayer wasn’t driven primarily by Minecraft, it had been a trend since early 00s due to companies seeing popularity of multiplayer FPS’s. Certainly Minecraft contributed but I wouldn’t characterize Minecraft as having driven developers to build it in needlessly, they just helped accelerate the trend.

Tbh yeah cause in the og battlefront that i have theres a white online thing at the bottom

Yeah, gold standard games like COD 4, and Halo 3 (both made in 2007) I'd say were the main reasons for the online multi-player trend, atleast on console.


11:56 This is what it looks like to see a man's spirit break. It's so saddening to witness it, even secondhand. He's reduced himself down to a whimpering pile of perpetual emotional agony. Wings needs to stop. It's in his best intrest to find something else that he finds fulfilling rather than feeding into the viscious cycle of ridicule. This man has truly seen the downward spiral and it's mostly self inflicted, which is what makes it so hard to sympathize for his cause.

@The Pope Of Dope Big Apple, 3AM from TMNT 4: Turtles In Time on SNES ):

What's the song that plays during that part?


You can tell Jimmy Kimmel wasn’t a nerd as a kid, making money kicking a ball is insane to me, but to him that’s normal


You know it’s crazy how a YouTuber can go from one type of content to another type and still keep their viewership at a good constant view rate. Glad to see Emplemon is doing this very well :)

Dunkey, Jerma and of course Emp are the only ones I can think of


Me: "Oh boy EmpLemon is gonna tear a hole into AAA studios."<br>EmpLemon: "The Minecraft revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the middle market game industry."

Me: "Oh boy EmpLemon is gonna tear a hole into AAA studios."
EmpLemon: "The Minecraft revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the middle market game industry."

@Pax Humana this was back when source code was just released for games like that, but I certainly would like mod support for 2016 and Eternal at some point. Those games are never going to be as important or influential as the classics, but honestly they never were trying to be, just keeping certain old school shooter philosophies going and furthering them with new ideas.

@Fail Fort I don’t know why this person can’t see the issue with AAA games but there were some really good games listed there and they’re right, there have been great AAA games released in recent years. Fallen Order might not be as good as DS1 or important, but I don’t think it was trying to be. It was just a solid Star Wars game with Metroidvania and Souls in its DNA but it takes its derivative elements and became something I thought was kinda special. It’s not a masterpiece, but it was definitely a good and worthwhile experience.

@dylan w. same as league of legends yeah

@dylan w. same as league of legends yeah

@Fail Fort what? I can’t here you from up that perch that you’re using to look down on me

However you weren’t looking at me
You looked at my *reflection*!
Because the actual me is looking down on you!

@Joshua Bennett Shill harder, you're not making it obvious enough that you've been paid off

@Joshua Bennett Shill harder, you're not making it obvious enough that you've been paid off

@Beef Supreme cdproject mentioned that only 6% of people who played the game actually made it to the end.

@Beef Supreme cdproject mentioned that only 6% of people who played the game actually made it to the end.

@Fanny you know you do make a compelling point

@Fanny you know you do make a compelling point

@Person I never said they got better, but they haven’t gotten worse. It all depends on what you prefer. Personally if I were rank the console generations it would be

1. SNES/Genesis
2. PS2/GameCube
3.PS3/360/Wii
4.NES
5.N64/PS1

Not including PS4/Switch/Xbox1

@Joshua Bennett yes but they’ve gotten more common recently and games are somehow getting even more expensive despite that.  Your wrong if you genuinely think AAA games have gotten better because they haven’t.

@Person that can be applied to every generation

@Person that can be applied to every generation

@Joshua Bennett shitty business practices, unoriginal, unfinished, buggy and unfun games, pay to win crap, etc.

@Joshua Bennett shitty business practices, unoriginal, unfinished, buggy and unfun games, pay to win crap, etc.

@Pax Humana "Do you really think that Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal are going to have that kind of staying power thirty years from now?"<br>Well if they release the source code like john carmack did for 1993 doom yeah.

@Pax Humana "Do you really think that Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal are going to have that kind of staying power thirty years from now?"
Well if they release the source code like john carmack did for 1993 doom yeah.

@Joshua Bennett most of those games don’t have pervasive microtransactions, thankfully

@Joshua Bennett most of those games don’t have pervasive microtransactions, thankfully

Joshua Bennett <br>Idk man this shit started since watchdogs bro

Joshua Bennett
Idk man this shit started since watchdogs bro

@Jayden C honestly would say 2017 by itself is better than the second half of the 2000s in terms of S-tier masterpiece games

@Jayden C honestly would say 2017 by itself is better than the second half of the 2000s in terms of S-tier masterpiece games

Real Human bean HUH? That’s in the past 2/3 years. Although I’m giving 2020 a bit of a pass cause of fucking CORONAVIRUS and the new consoles coming up

Real Human bean HUH? That’s in the past 2/3 years. Although I’m giving 2020 a bit of a pass cause of fucking CORONAVIRUS and the new consoles coming up

@Real Human bean how is doom eternal not low risk investment? and spider man? last time I checked it's been a while since there was a spider man game.god of war? I heard that really shoke things up. smash bros? b*tch please that ain't low risk putting every character and almost every stage from the whole series in ONE game

Joshua Bennett
What best games of all time? All I can tell is like, DOOM eternal. The rest of it just seems like low risk investments.
Edit: oh so only 10 games in 5 years?
Yeah buddy look at the sea of other AAA garbage that spews out.

@Fail Fort also you right he DID say 5 years....games mentione weren't really bad though...the last one  game though? eh...that one is considered more mixed

@Fail Fort also you right he DID say 5 years....games mentione weren't really bad though...the last one  game though? eh...that one is considered more mixed

@Fail Fort I meant like...best in there respective series atleast lol.

2015-2020 really wasn't that bad...2017 is considered one of the  best years in gaming in fact

RDR 2? you could be the one spreading misinformation...honestly I haven't played most of the games being discussed before but im going off at least general consensus which is important and hey at least I played smash .

@Joshua Bennett eh...ok maybe...I can see that really. for the most part it isn't that much or often and certainly not as big as how certain triple A games go about bad monetization

@Joshua Bennett eh...ok maybe...I can see that really. for the most part it isn't that much or often and certainly not as big as how certain triple A games go about bad monetization

Jayden C not the popular ones. But there’s tons of Early Access trash and clickbait garbage. You just don’t hear about them

Jayden C not the popular ones. But there’s tons of Early Access trash and clickbait garbage. You just don’t hear about them

@Joshua Bennett eh...I don't see how indie games really have bad monetization reakky

@Joshua Bennett eh...I don't see how indie games really have bad monetization reakky

@Fail Fort how is smash or spider man not as good as prior games? no one has mentioned it yet but...both red dead redemption games this decade. gta 5. skyrim is more older now even if not as old as red dead redemption one but it is still good.

Kayvee id agree on sea of thieves as it’s really deep as a puddle wide as an ocean(pun intended) but hit man is pretty good albeit hard to appreciate if it isn’t your type of game.

Kayvee id agree on sea of thieves as it’s really deep as a puddle wide as an ocean(pun intended) but hit man is pretty good albeit hard to appreciate if it isn’t your type of game.

@Beef Supreme also as crazy as it sounds...still gotta keep in mind games like skyrim which already has aged were still considered really great when it first released

@Beef Supreme also as crazy as it sounds...still gotta keep in mind games like skyrim which already has aged were still considered really great when it first released

@Real Human Bean franchise milking fatique and pervasive microtransactions? that wasn't on minecraft though

@Real Human Bean franchise milking fatique and pervasive microtransactions? that wasn't on minecraft though

@Beef Supreme well...of the whole decade yeah... they certainly have released some of the best games ever

@Beef Supreme well...of the whole decade yeah... they certainly have released some of the best games ever

@Lord_Of_Aether  "Fortnite isn't truly free to play, because you have to pay for items, skins, and even game modes" - You don't have to use skins. Can you tell us about these game modes though?

@Lord_Of_Aether My brother played a ton of Fortnite, and I don't remember any content being locked behind microtransactions. Skins aren't content. And Roblox predates Minecraft for at least 3 years, sure they might have competed but Roblox wasn't released as a response to Minecraft. Fortnite was gunning for PUBG's seat, not Minecraft.

“Emp Kaczynski was right and we should’ve listend” -Random Gamer in 2045

“Emp Kaczynski was right and we should’ve listend” -Random Gamer in 2045

Pax Humana keyword “30 year old games” of course they’re gonna have more mods. People have had thirty years to toy around with those games. People know the code in and out. And a games quality isn’t dictated by modding potential. It’s dictated by quality.

@Joshua Bennett , Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal have nowhere near the mods that Doom I, Doom II, and Final Doom contain.  Seriously, a video game that is almost thirty years old has far more mods, and even complete user made games, than either of the newest entries in the Doom franchise.  Do you really think that Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal are going to have that kind of staying power thirty years from now?  I seriously doubt that your argument holds water.

DrunkMasochist I will admit the market is a lot more inconsistent. But I still think there’s the same amount of good stuff being made. But even then you had stuff Sonic 06, Bubsy 3D, Nuts and Bolts, Big Rigs, etc. even the worst AAA games today have potential and a lot of strengths.

Anthem did a lot right and plenty more wrong

@Joshua Bennett I think AAA has gone to shit, but that's a good list so you made me re-evaluate my opinion. I think the big difference now versus before was that AAA companies were consistently good, and that the very act of being a AAA product was an indication that it was good. I literally did not anticipate a single one of those games being good before they came out.

I think much of the resentment, or perhaps just mine, comes from a feeling of betrayal. There is no such thing as a safe pick in the market anymore, and AAA used to be that safety. Also I mostly play pretty obscure genres, so admittedly a lot of my bias comes from simple bandwagoning too.

well, success of Starcraft 2 and World Of Warcraft has killed both strategy and mmorpg genres.

well, success of Starcraft 2 and World Of Warcraft has killed both strategy and mmorpg genres.

@vaporwavedreamman Well Fortnite's main player base is made up of children who don't know any better, and to be fair, I've seen multiple adults fall for those very tactics. I'm not necessarily going against the idea of microtransactions and paid DLC as a whole, I'm just against how the tactics used to sell them are deceitful, manipulative, and often even addictive. I'm saying this because video games are a huge part of my life, and I would wish for them to not be controlled by large companies like Google and EA, who only use care about it for their own gain.

Lord_Of_Aether Then people are dumb. Micro transactions are ALWAYS a choice to buy, unless you’re a child and you don’t know better. In a game like Rainbow Six: Siege, i can play the game without ever spending micro transactions and have a good time. But me spending money on r6 credits so I can buy a battle pass is my decision, and I was not compelled or forced with a gun to my head to buy it. Micro transactions are scummy, but at the end of the day, it’s ultimately your decision to spend money on them.

Lord_Of_Aether sure whatever you say pal. A free to Play game has to make money somehow. And honestly I would take MTXs over DLCs (WoW) or subscriptions (Runescape) any day of the week

@Joshua Bennett I see that you are, to nicely put it, a "Microtransaction Apologist". Fortnite isn't truly free to play, because you have to pay for items, skins, and even game modes, if you want to use them. There is also little way for most people to avoid said microtransactions because of some deceitful tactics, i.e. "Everyone wants the new *insert item name here*" and "You don't want to look like a noob, do you?".

Lord_Of_Aether think of a better argument. If that argument can be immediately turned around and still be right, it’s not a good argument.

And most of those MC clones aren’t AAA. And Fortnite is by all definitions free to play. You don’t have to spend any money

@Joshua Bennett Think of your own arguments, and Fortnite isn't really free, as most of its content is locked behind microtransactions. Also, many games competed with Minecraft, I don't know if you're old enough to remember it though, as the heyday of the "war" was around 2012-2015. This is when many games were trying to take the crown from Minecraft, The 2 most prolific being Roblox, which still has a decent following today, and Fortnite, which only came around in 2017, but managed to take the #1 spot from Minecraft for some time, before it's decline in 2019.

@Spiderham55 That isn't exactly what they were saying, they said that games with microtransactions employ brainwashing tactics. I myself have done some research on the subject, and I've even found many of the games Joshua Bennett put on their list to use those very same tactics, like paying youtubers and critics to play those games and review them well, and constantly running ads on games.

Lord_Of_Aether imagine thinking those were bad games. Couldn’t be me

Nice argument man 👍

Lord_Of_Aether imagine thinking those were bad games. Couldn’t be me

Nice argument man 👍

4nt what games competed with Minecraft? And only a few companies have their own BRs. However they still have other games coming out. It’s just an extra FREE game to play if you want to. I see no problem with that.

@Joshua Bennett Imagine thinking those were good games, couldn't be me.

@Joshua Bennett Imagine thinking those were good games, couldn't be me.

@Joshua Bennett Some AAA companies are only just now starting to get over their obsession of competing with Minecraft, yet most are chasing Fortnite now.

@Joshua Bennett Some AAA companies are only just now starting to get over their obsession of competing with Minecraft, yet most are chasing Fortnite now.

@Fail Fort liking a game = brainwashed  I guess

@Fail Fort liking a game = brainwashed  I guess

@Joshua Bennett example of AAA company making gacha shit: fire emblem heroes

AAA do it too

@Joshua Bennett example of AAA company making gacha shit: fire emblem heroes

AAA do it too

Manny Pardo The Edgy I can’t have an opinion based around evidence

Manny Pardo The Edgy I can’t have an opinion based around evidence

Wait, is this a play on The Unabom Manifesto

Wait, is this a play on The Unabom Manifesto

Imagine an industry that subjects people to video games that make them terribly unhappy, then gives them the microtransactions to take away their unhappiness. Science fiction? It is already happening to some extent in our own industry... Instead of removing the conditions that make video games suck, the modern video game industry gives them microtransactions. In effect, microtransactions are a means of modifying an individual's already purchased video game experience in such a way as to enable him to tolerate such video games that he would otherwise find intolerable.

-emp Lemzynski

@Fail Fort theres just as bad monetization in Indie games as well. The best indies have good monetization, and the best AAA have good monetization. Also Sekiro is way better then DS1, Fallen Order doesn’t have to be the vest game ever, games are mostly about fun.

Sea of Thieves launched bad but they did fix it post launch, which I would not prefer over a complete launch. But it’s a privilege that we live in an age where a game can be fixed and improved for free after launch instead of just dropping and forgetting.

Also BL3s only flaw is the story. Everything else is better then BL2, miles better? No, but BL2 is a high bar and on the gameplay side they def passed it.

@Joshua Bennett Good job listing games that are not as good as the best of the 2000s. Or indies in general.
Putting BL3 in there is particularly hilarious since it's so fucking shit compared to BL2.

Sea of Thieves lmao

I didn't say there were only bad games released in modern times, Monster Hunter World in particular has, like, my favorite gameplay out of any game, but the majority of games listed here are definitely not "best of all time" material. Fallen Order loses hard to Dark Souls 1 and so does Sekiro. Honestly Hitman 2 and Sea of Thieves don't even belong in a "best of the month" list.

Also you have to be REALLY fucking stupid to not see the bad monetization practices in a lot of modern AAA. Just look at Activision Blizzard and EA.

@Beef Supreme you’re limiting the scope to appear more right. Emp did the same thing by using the NASCAR genre as his example of things are worse. Even then you have stuff like Divinity 2 and POE 2 for story RPGs. And plenty of games when it comes to Diablo likes.

@Just a guy indie games with potentially hundreds of hours of gameplay might have displaced the middle market because they are still relatively expensive to develop but now have to share the spotlight.

@Fail Fort oh boo hoo. So sad I get to play my

Spider-Man PS4
Doom Eternal
Sekiro
Mario Maker 2
Astral Chain
Borderlands 3
DMC5
Fallen Order
Outer Worlds
Monster Hunter
God of War
Smash Bro’s
Hitman 2
and Sea of Thieves! Sorry I enjoy good games

@chrispo nah..... the real bad gacha stuff is small groups of people trying to make a quick buck

@chrispo nah..... the real bad gacha stuff is small groups of people trying to make a quick buck

@Joshua Bennett Lmao no. There have been a mere handful of good games here and there, like Witcher 3 which was a good RPG but certainly not one of the best of all time (unless your idea of a roleplaying game is a game where you play the role of a character that's been written out for you and you're only allowed to choose their mood at any given time and maybe their beard length).

@Joshua Bennett some of the worst game practices also came from AAA titles

@Joshua Bennett some of the worst game practices also came from AAA titles

@Joshua Bennett I'm sad you've been brainwashed into believing that lmao

@Joshua Bennett I'm sad you've been brainwashed into believing that lmao

I don't understand why he says that about the revolution... I mean, what were its consequences that led to a disaster for the middle market game industry? It just doesn't make sense from my point of view.

I actually audibly laughed at this comment.

I actually audibly laughed at this comment.

Why does AAA need a hole teared into it? Some of the best games of all time have been AAA of the past 5 years

Why does AAA need a hole teared into it? Some of the best games of all time have been AAA of the past 5 years


I remember the first time I spotted Sonic and the black Knight in a store, and man  I really miss spotting games with no expectations and having opinions with my friends because we tought it was the coolest thing ever made.

Since that day, and entering a part of the industry and internet, mann is difficult enjoy something


"Should we punish new media for a lack of progression" No, but we should punish it for regression.


This is partially one of the reasons for why I usually stick with old games


This is why i think that indie games are doing so well, they are just people experimenting and making new experiences


Many of these games were made by companies founded and ran by people who had real passion for video games. Now the companies making games are ran by people who's only passion is maximizing quarterly earnings. Focus matters.

Just find the people who are still working for passion. They're out there.

Abso-fucking-lutely. Summarized as fuck. Nice job dude.

They are cheaper for the most part, too.

It feels like most of the newer games were made by soulless robots who tried and failed to recapture the glory days or whatever

Maybe there shouldn't be gaming <b>companies</b> at all.

Maybe there shouldn't be gaming *companies* at all.

@V Honestly tho. Cyberpunk even running on PS4/Xb1 is surprising itself. They're turning 10 next year. PS4 Pro is already 5 years old. I thought they'd go straight for next-gen.

Also, haven't encountered any serious problems since the release. It played EXACTLY like any other game in last 10 years. As if BF, CoD, GTA, Assassin's Creed and every other game don't come with their share of bugs on release. Don't see people complaining and demanding a refund when they buy those games.

Евгений Куликов

@ash The reason these companies do this is because they have people like you shilling for them. No, it wasn't just a mistake and I doubt the people at the top are passionate at all. They pushed out Cyberpunk when it was nowhere close to ready because they wanted to cash in on the hype.

@ash by that logic we would have given them more passes than an average football season. You try and make the argument that cd project red care about games and rockstar doesn't. That is clearly false by the comparative quality of their games at launch. Rockstar gives a playable product. I'm not saying rockstar is not without fault and that we should praise them. Im saying in the new age of games that come out they have figured out that making complete products is more profitable

The good and also bad part is, that this passion has shifted to indie game studios, because with todays video game market, even single people can create and sell games. The bad part is that these indie studios cant always reach their ambission and that their games dont reach the size of AAA games; the creative and passionate games we knew from the early 2000s are too big already and we end up being stuck with mostly small, but creative and innovative games and big and stale games.<br>Luckily sometimes the management lets their devs loose and you get some passionate/innovative games, like Alien Isolation or Death Stranding.

The good and also bad part is, that this passion has shifted to indie game studios, because with todays video game market, even single people can create and sell games. The bad part is that these indie studios cant always reach their ambission and that their games dont reach the size of AAA games; the creative and passionate games we knew from the early 2000s are too big already and we end up being stuck with mostly small, but creative and innovative games and big and stale games.
Luckily sometimes the management lets their devs loose and you get some passionate/innovative games, like Alien Isolation or Death Stranding.

This is not true. Nintendo got into video games because they saw it as the future. They made playing cards, both traditional Japanese and Western style. When the owner who inherited the business had bigger dreams, he visited the Bicycle factory in America. He was not impressed by what he saw as the pinnacle of his industry, so he decided to change the focus of his family business. First he settled on toys, and it was Miyamoto of all people who had not even created a toy, but a little extendo arm tool to make his job easier. The owner saw that as potential for a toy, and it was.
With the arcade industry beginning to boom, he retooled his business to profit off of that trend, with none other than Miyamoto as the man he left in charge. He was the first 'game developer' with no computer background, and created a game with an emphasis on a playful story, as well as an artistic design, which had never been done before. I won't go on, but the rest is history. The only othr factor was that the company also had the foresight to notice a market void, a weird circumstance where there was an ENTIRELY intact and lucrative market with no company to cater to them, the console market . The console market was dominated by America, and very healthy in the 70's with LOTS of competition, but one company was better than the rest, and the industry became a monopoly. Rather than market conditions, Atari died to one of the most moronic decisions ever made in the entire history of the gaming industry, and since it was the only player left, took the entire industry with it, leaving a perfectly healthy market filled with customers willing to shell out money, but no one to make what they wanted. I guess American companies were spooked, first by Atari's massacre of it's competitors, then watching Atari itself self-implode, but Japan saw nothing but optimism, as they should have. Nintendo wasn't the only Japanese company to notice this, but they were the first to the punch.
This is Nintendo's story. It's probably the most well known because of how interesting and long their history is, but Sega wasn't much different (SEGA has a MUCH shadier past though). I can think of a few companies founded by genuinely passionate gamers that started some truly great studios (that suck now), but the main driver has always been profit. The reality now is that it is the CONSUMER'S fault. You dumbasses keep preordering games and getting shitty products, and the developers won't stop until you do. Back in the day, gamers were young, and were either minors short on cash, or young adults who needed to be shrewd when they shelled out 50 bucks (90 dollars today). Some state-of-the-art games (like one of the Genesis Phantasy Star games) cost EVEN MORE because of the hardware in the carts, sometimes up to 200 (almost 400 today)! If games went back to costing 100+ dollars, (they won't, yet some will still spend 1000's on DLC), you bet your ass the expectations of the average gamer would skyrocket.

Now it's all about pushing a social agenda

Back then it has been companies, now it's corporations.

And these big companies kill small ones by purchasing them and there rights to there games and make them over work to then just release a bad game that could have been good but then decides to shut them down because sales weren't good?... It's sick.

That's why I basically only support indie games. I refuse to pay microtransactions and 80 dollars for a buggy glitchy unfinished mess with no soul.

@ash fair enough, I guess we can just revisit this conversation when the next witcher comes out lol see you in a few years 😄

@V The games industry is just how it is you can't really expect everyone else to have their shoes made in China and not do the same in your company. It's shitty to it's staff just like every other big game company, maybe not to the same extent, maybe to a greater extent but shitty nonetheless. That doesn't take away from the product being their 1st miss-step so far. Not all cash-grabs are inherently soul-less.

@ash they blatantly lied about the game running surprisingly well on last gen consoles, they knew the game was an unfinished buggy mess that the testers or whatever group they got to play the game before release said the game probably wouldn't be ready until 2022(and that was for pc) and I guarantee you there was some analysts who said ok the game isn't finished but there's so much hype and loyal customers who believe in this company from our witcher series and did the math ending up deciding that there would be more ppl who wouldn't refund than not or maybe they just said fuck it release it anyways.

I mean how are we gonna give them a pass for that? It's like if you are working on a presentation for your job right and that presentation is for a huge client that your business desperately needs and you keep telling your boss yeah its going so good I'm gonna have it finished next week, we're gonna land those clients and you just hype the fuck out of it and your boss says great I will have them fly in next week for your presentation. And when it's presentation time you walk in there drunk with a shit presentation, a bad half assed pitch and your slides don't work so you just wing it and it goes overwhelmingly bad and the clients leave and never want to do business with your company again. Do you think your boss would give you another chance for the next big client? Shit he probably would just fire you.

The way that mess was handled should give you a good indication that they don't care about their fans and customers and this whole debacle was just a test to see how bad it really would be if they did the same shit those other companies do.

I believe it was something like more than half of the original devs from the witcher series already left the company  and they just pump out contractors these days so how can we expect  for them to not release another buggy mess next time. When long time devs leave the company the same way we've seen at other companies like blizzard, the games end up what they are these days. Soulless cashgrab garbage. I'm glad a lot of ppl are holding these companies accountable and just aren't playing those games anymore because they know it's just a waste of time and money.

I hope you're right and I'm wrong about cdpr but only time will tell. I won't be holding my breath though.

@V You have to give them the pass. EA, Activision, Blizzard all got the pass the first time bro it's like if Tarantino made a bad movie after Pulp Fiction u wouldn't be like "oh he's shit" you would wait for the next movie. The great filmmakers are all old now and the younger generation of writers/directors make great tv shows. The well never runs dry for great content, there's no need to play/watch new stuff all the time if you want to play/watch great stuff all the time.

@ash why are you shifting blame as if people don't blame EA and Activision for their horseshit too? Surely by now you must know that your entire argument is the reason these companies don't give a shit and will release buggy unfinished games because people such as yourself will still defend them because they made a game you loved in the past. Idk how many times I've seen this exact conversation happen and here you are proving that there's no end in sight to fans giving companies passes.

Open your eyes man, Activision and EA and especially blizzard used to make fantastic games until they didn't. We gave them excuses because we didn't want to accept that shits changed and sure enough they abused our trust and loyalty until we ended up at this point where ppl like me have to explain to ppl like you who still try to hold on to hope that the next time will be different.  Cdpr is supposed to be different somehow because the witcher was good yet they managed to make the same mistakes as their competitors continue to do to this day and you're giving them a pass bc it was their first time?

Hold them accountable for their bullshit and maybe, just maybe, they won't keep fucking it up over and over in the future. I have zero expectations that it'll ever be great again in gaming anytime soon but giving free passes for bullshit needs to end because it gives them more reason not to do any better.

 We're all tired of it man, I basically play single player games or indie stuff these days but I spend 95% less time gaming and it's not because I've grown older but because gaming has gone corporate and it's just the same old recycled shit or just plain bugged out garbage that asks you for money every time you play. It's all remasters too since they're too afraid to take risks on anything new, just like movies. Entertainment in general is just a shitshow and now I realize I'm rambling in frustration so I'm just gonna end this rant here.

@Skeets McGrew CD Projekt are one of the few companies with people at the top who are actually passionate about distributing and creating great games... It's like complaining about Rockstar Games. They made a mistake and they acknowledged it and refunded anyone who wanted one. Complain about companies who make the same bullshit game year after year adding little to the product, companies like EA and Activision are the real culprits.

Id consider this problem #1. Video games always needed to be profitable, but now they need to be EVEN MORE profitable, year after year. Got a guy with passions? Fuck him, get him off the team, we need a yes-man. Look at Cyberpunk, the creators KNEW the game was broken as fuck and nowhere near ready for release. Arguably they were mismanaged if it took 8 damn years to make a finished game but still, back in the day they would just push back release because they wanted to make a good game. But Cyberpunk was profitable before it even hit the market because of the hype. The company literally couldnt care less if it failed. Worse case scenario, they sell the company to fuckin EA for a quarter billion dollars, go home with a cool $5mil bonus, and walk away as the developers get paid dogshit for being part of the "team that bungled Cyberpunk."


Watching this video twice made me relise how the oversaturation part hits home , recently changeing my sleep schedule showed me how watching hours of gaming content on youtube can sour a first time expiriance while watching almost 0 content of the game in question improved the overall expirience , playing Yakuza 0 and Ghost of Tsushima with no prior opinions really greatend my expiriance


I think as you get older you realize it was more for hanging out and gaming with others than it was ever about the games themselves


I love how people talk just about new games instead of tackling the issues EmpLemon explains about how it's also the fault of gamers themselves if the industry is more cynical and less interesting.


What’s interesting about the DS anecdote, one that I have fond memories of as well, is that it still exists. It’s on PlayStation (I don’t know much about the switch local multiplayer). Share play has been an extremely fun addition where I can play overcooked with a buddy who can’t be in my house at that point in time. They don’t need to own the game. I can still watch my friend play resident evil cause I’m a little scaredy cat, but now I can watch him in a shareplay lobby from my house. I can’t always be with my friends anymore. Shareplay has allowed the same level of playing a game locally with my friend with only one copy but in the busy adult life we all live.


Back then I remember it was hard chosing which game buy because almost everything was such a good game. Now I have problems chosing too but this time is about deciding which game isn't crappy or even if it actually works as intended


Monster Hunter is one of the game franchises that I personally feel like just have continually improved. I love MHG, MH4U, MH4, MH3, MHG, MHUF, but MHW and Iceborne have exalted Monster Hunter to a new level, the teams are so dedicated to the game and stay true to what Monster Hunter is, yes they have added new stuff, but they look after and care for their games with an unparalleled amount of grace, love, and dedication.

@Sir Pancake To ask whether or not the Phillips CD-i games counts would be akin to asking if Guilty Gear Isuka, Deus Ex Human Revolution, Kingdom Hearts BBS, or Pokemon Sword count. In some cases here, different teams. In some cases, completely different company. In all cases, every one of these games are things that at some point existed in each of their respective series' real life history. So, yeah, I think they should count.

After all, we can't just start picking and choosing, or that'd eliminate the point. Once we start making special exceptions for remakes or games officially handed off to another company to work on, can we REALLY say that we've considered EVERY game?

If the CD-i Zelda games were, in a stranger universe, some of the best Zelda games that were ever made, it wouldn't matter to everyone that they weren't developed by Nintendo's leading team like its source material. It'd be treated like the Oracle games and Minish Cap, which were all handled by Capcom instead.

So, for the sake of objectivity, if a game in a series existed, it's to be mentioned. This includes Majora's Mask 3D and the Phillips CD-i games.

@CrackedMateria I agree with Zelda II, but I personally really liked tri force heroes, and do the Phillips games even count, and remakes don’t really matter of the original was good. I do agree with all critiques tho.

@Sir Pancake Well, certainly. Though I love Zelda II, it's collectively agreed upon by a majority of the fans, and even the developers, as the worst game in the series. I would call that an outright miss. Tri-Force Heroes is straight up forgettable, has next to no actual content, and doesn't even properly work unless you have friends locally. The CD-i games all outright sucked. And probably the hottest take here: Majora's Mask 3D straight up didn't function properly, because they changed how movement works without changing the actual environments built around the original movement, the most egregious examples being Great Bay and how swimming works now, and Woodfall and that weird added acceleration time on Deku, making certain areas ridiculous to traverse, like that one area where there is literally not enough space to get a running start to make it to the first lilypad, and to go backward to attempt to make that space would be to hit the loading zone and leave the area. The music is haphazardly smeared in reverb and the atmosphere of the original game may as well be nonexistent.

@CrackedMateria I’m not sure about outright misses. That seems a bit harsh. Also can you give some examples

@Sir Pancake Zelda's definitely had a few outright misses.

Another one is probably the Zelda franchise.

@CrackedMateria not really? I mean I've obviously not seen anyone say it was the best, but I've seen many say it was decent. good isn't much of a stretch from there.

@Honesty Your username doesn't even remotely apply. Nobody thinks that. Not a soul on this planet thinks that.

@CrackedMateria The DmC reboot was good though...

@Misha600 respectfully, no, that would tank the game and plus we already have games like that it wouldn’t improve MH at all would detract from the base game itself

broke: monster hunter<br>woke: monster girl quest

broke: monster hunter
woke: monster girl quest

@CrackedMateria honestly I think that’s it tbhp

Right, Monster Hunter's been on one hell of a roll, hasn't it? Can't think of many other games that have just been getting better and better.
Even fantastic series like Devil May Cry had 2 and the reboot to pretend don't exist, even if every game aside from them have been getting greater with each installment.
You could argue that Etrian Odyssey III was the best in the series due to some conventions being exclusive to it such as the Shin Megami Tensei-style endings. Speaking of Shin Megami Tensei, I think the mainline SMTs have been overall pretty damn good. I don't think they've had a bad hit in the main series yet. Then again, IV Apocalypse is a bit divisive...
You said Monster Hunter was "one of" the game franchises you feel have just continually improved, right?
I'm curious to hear if there are a few others!


I can probably name two games from big corporate studios that ive poured hours into and thoroughly enjoyed from start to end in the past 10 years, whereas ive played countless indie or games from smaller studios and had a blast.


Love how your shot of “shovel-ware games” at 10:39 is all just wii games 😂 the system that you see in the dictionary right next to it 😆


“Competition breeds innovation”<br>When you buy out the competition, there’s no need to change and as such the industry stagnates until it eventually dies.

“Competition breeds innovation”
When you buy out the competition, there’s no need to change and as such the industry stagnates until it eventually dies.

Nothing’s stopping them from doing something new but without material competition, nothing is encouraging them to do anything different.

"I'd rather be AN option, rather than THE option"

@Robert Bektas This is such a strong argument to me. I don't get how EMP can do a twitter poll, still get a 10% discrepancy against his claim, and still push that a lot of people prefer old games. And then he goes on to list a bunch of things they're giving up that they probably didn't even consider, making a solid argument for why you SHOULDN'T go for nostalgia over what is obviously a better deal. Wow, you get to play Wii Sports and Club Penguin, how soulful those games are. If only there was a genre of game that filled such a hole that blew up in the 2010s. Oh and to be honest, on his NASCAR point I think he is drastically underplaying the impact triple A tier graphics have on a consumer. Even if you showed someone from 2003 a game like Asphalt 9 I'm sure they'd flip their shit.

Competition is just the transitionary stage to monopolization.

@joseaca only when you and the competition didn't share an exclusive government license. In the modern world, EU-centric copyright regulations mean that a handful of media megaconglomerates like Disney can own the rights to basically every piece of material that goes mainstream. Nothing gets created in a vacuum, so the vast majority of new ideas get squelched due to bearing too much resemblance to the ever expanding list of eternally off limits products which increasingly represent the average creator's entire pool of experience.

@Crushingon Hence why Indie Games are on the rise, because it's simply a bunch of passionate people with their own vision. Not some stuffy, out of touch corporate suits.

Marcus Borderlands <br>I don’t think anyone is saying AAA games are all shit, it’s just that the amount of AAA released proportional to the good one is awfully low.

Marcus Borderlands
I don’t think anyone is saying AAA games are all shit, it’s just that the amount of AAA released proportional to the good one is awfully low.

At least a new game can be made if the old one dies

the gaming industry is the way it is because of copyright and other such anti-competitive regulations. buying out the competition is impossible in an economy where the cost of entering the market are low, and impossible to profit off of without taking advantage of the government. also, the mainstream gaming industry has been corrupt for over a decade, if there were more incentives for competition, the collusion between journalists and publishers would be unstable, forcing them to recognize who their real consumers are.

I don’t necessarily agree with emp. So many amazing games are coming out in recent years. If I only had access to the 8 to 32 generations I probably wouldn’t like games as much as I do. Most people don’t want to admit this but around 90% of 8 bit games don’t hold up and about 70% of 16 bit aren’t worth playing either

Not into Dark Souls or other games like it but I loved Metro and I do play lots of "older" AAA games as I said. Like Borderlands 2 or BF3.

@Tim Teller try some nice AAA games that arent cod and shit. Dark souls 3, Metro Exodus, and Deus Ex are fantastic, but people seem to act like there arent any good AAA games that have released in the past 10 years lol.

Off topic normie meme thing ir what ever(if you think i am feel free)

Gran turismo fans(gt):o boy i cant wait fot gt sport

Gt sport goses on sale

Gt fans:almost all cars have interiors and online but what about more cars and tracks

Devs of gt:will be added in updates and no dlc

Gt fans:updates what is that no 1000 cars and 100 tracks whaaaaa

Gt7:is new gt4

Gt fans: o boy i cant wait

Gt 7 come out:10/10

Gt8 ends up like gt sport

Thats how is it end up

Well competition does breed innovation. But competition is spare and most of my fav games are either older or from indi studios that don't belomg to the publisher-developer-media cartel.


Was not expecting a Klay World reference holy fuck that's a throwback

THANK YOU, the name was on the tip of my tongue and it was bugging the hell out of me. I wonder what its creator went on to do.

Wait you're still alive?

wHeRe ArE tHe GuN pArOdIeS?


13:50 You articulated what I've been thinking about for months: The merciless perfectionism which is becoming the new surrogate for moral virtue.

13:50 You articulated what I've been thinking about for months: The *merciless perfectionism* which is becoming the new surrogate for moral virtue.

I hate when people assume the game will be good or bad based on trailers, especially after cyperpunk bombed and Halo infinite was not bad after months of opposite preemptive expectations


I think you hit the nail on the head when you mentioned how mediocrity often goes unnoticed. When Naughty Dog puts out a super polished video game with great graphics, gameplay, and a story that I personally liked, but there are flaws that are valid, everyone loses their shit. But when Ubisoft or Activision releases another trash game, nobody cares. It's like the standards are so ridiculously high and low at the same time.


I feel like this is the era of the indie game because while triple A games have been on a downwards spiral I think indie games are finally gaining some momentum.

But once a indie developer acted toward triple A games, the cycle continued.


"Simple" games still exist, the Indie market is better than ever

@poggers calm down and eat a bread 🍞

Better now? OK.

@Arthur Atanazio ...what is so bad about anime? sure there are some odd balls but do you actually genuinely think the west has anything good?

Can i just list the shows/movies/comics/bo- or just franchises in general that were ruined by America, the fastest woke in the west?

Terminator

Star trek

Charlie's angels

Last of us

Men in black

Wonder woman

Batwoman

Star wars

Captain Marvel

Ghost busters

X-men

Marvel comics

Dc comics

Bond franchise

Dr. Who
and many many more i cant remember from the top of my head.

Im not excusing japan relying on their niche too much and gave birth to an uncountable amount of harem isekai titles, but you got to fucking admit theres no other choice when the west is balls deep into this circle of jerk of "White men bad!". I'd rather pick something that isnt afraid of expressing itself i mean the west LITERALLY attacked "Joker", one of the greatest films of this decade, just because its was a white man lead.

I was waiting for EmpLemon to mention it, perhaps to highlight how far the industry has fallen. But he never did

You a lie. Most indie games I see in console shops are absolutely garbage, but on PC ... Indies slap.

@Sho I think some of them have some pretty good budgets, some of the most popular games of this decade have been from indie devs with a reasonable budget

@El Nacho i have no one to play football with, and that makes me sad

@NoahBoi04 So, saying ur tastes are bads has no sense in a discussions about tastes??

@Arthur Atanazio and I don't expect you to, that's just a low blow that I've already seen done a million times by now. I can't stand when people pull the "anime pfp" card   because it's such a weakass argument and makes no sense outside the context of saying it ironically/as a joke

@h_grunt Not really, it's up to the devs. Some devs or small studios aren't interested in growing, just in making better games.

@NoahBoi04 Why all Otakus always Waiting us to be the New Shakespeare or some shit?<br>I don't need to have superior study or art knowledge to say this kind of cultura and industry sucks,mostly because the own genre and ur own cliche comment says a Lot of this

@NoahBoi04 Why all Otakus always Waiting us to be the New Shakespeare or some shit?
I don't need to have superior study or art knowledge to say this kind of cultura and industry sucks,mostly because the own genre and ur own cliche comment says a Lot of this

@Arthur Atanazio wew nice one, so original, 10/10

@NoahBoi04 "Stop judging other people Hobbis"---An anime fan

@h_grunt they do grow into companies, but a lot of them still stick to putting effort into games and listen to fans, not a lot changes except they get a bigger budget

Oh yeah risk of rain 2 phasmophobia shoppe keep 2 subnautica rivals of aether shovel knight. Back to back masterpieces, and let’s not forget Minecraft the most loved indie game so far

@El Nacho how about you grow up and quit judging other people's hobbies

Most indies are still lacking professionalism and budget of the 2000's mid-tier games but their heart is in the right place.

yeah i've spent countless hours just playing small indie games. you should see my itch.io library.

@El Nacho Stop playing vidja games and start playing egg ball games. Fantasy football = DnD for jocks.

I agree. For instance a game I have played for so many hours is kerbal space program. Its a simple physics sandbox where you make spaceships and explore the solar system or you can do whatever you want. Its this open ended concept that keeps the game exciting with a simple loop of design, test, rework, and complete the mission.


Honestly my favorite games in the last decade have all been single player RPG's and local multiplayer games I can play with friends. They straight up are the greatest. I stream too, but I'm always in it for the fun. If I'm not having fun, I'm out.


The thing is
We did get some incredible games in the 2010s like:
Shovel knight, hollow knight, BOTW, Mario 3D land/world, cuphead etc


I’m glad Halo Infinite is brought up here, more than once, as an example of a pretty fun game that’s been undeservedly fed to the wolves.

I’ve had fun playing its beta and will hopefully have fun when it launches too, but I struggle to see it being universally praised. It’ll be snubbed at best and dragged into the dirt until it chokes at worst, because no matter how good it is, there’s a very real and very toxic crowd that want it to be bad and will burn their own console if it means they feel justified.

I’m glad Halo Infinite is brought up here, more than once, as an example of a pretty fun game that’s been undeservedly fed to the wolves.

I’ve had fun playing its beta and will hopefully have fun when it launches too, but I struggle to see it being universally praised. It’ll be snubbed at best and dragged into the dirt until it chokes at worst, because no matter how good it is, there’s a very real and very toxic crowd that *want* it to be bad and will burn their own console if it means they feel justified.


One thing that really saddens me is that everyone expects kids and younger teens to just play games like minecraft and roblox. And honestly, I don't blame them. Seeing other kids play those games while I stick to my source games and my ps2/ps3 games is quite conflicting. While they play a game like fortnite, I may play doom. It's just really sad because gaming is one of the things that really makes me connect with people yet because of my age it's really hard. Finding another kid that plays games that I like is incredibly rare, and i've tried connecting with slightly older people that played those games and it didn't work. I can't connect to younger people because they don't play the same games. I can't blame the older people to not understand me, I can't understand the younger people. <br>It's just a sad story I felt like getting off my shoulders. Cya.

One thing that really saddens me is that everyone expects kids and younger teens to just play games like minecraft and roblox. And honestly, I don't blame them. Seeing other kids play those games while I stick to my source games and my ps2/ps3 games is quite conflicting. While they play a game like fortnite, I may play doom. It's just really sad because gaming is one of the things that really makes me connect with people yet because of my age it's really hard. Finding another kid that plays games that I like is incredibly rare, and i've tried connecting with slightly older people that played those games and it didn't work. I can't connect to younger people because they don't play the same games. I can't blame the older people to not understand me, I can't understand the younger people.
It's just a sad story I felt like getting off my shoulders. Cya.