@Foekoe, or just play older games with amazing modding community.

@Foekoe, or just play older games with amazing modding community.

Suicide guy is my favourite indie game atm

Suicide guy is my favourite indie game atm

Why are so many people talking about how most indie games are garbage? Like yeah, no shit, sherlock. When applied to art, Sturgeon's law always has and always will hold true. 90% of everything is crap, sometimes even more. The sad truth is, most people don't have the talent or passion to make something truly special. Obviously if you don't look at the mainstream examples you're going to find a ton of garbage. That applies to triple A games, that applies to indie games, that applies to movies, that applies to books, that applies to everything. It doesn't indicate a regression, it's the natural order of things. Seeing people going "oh no, too much garbage, I give up" genuinely makes me sad. Leave the garbage alone and keep looking. There are games for you. There are movies for you. There are books for you. Resort to piracy if it's too hard on your wallet, I don't care. Buy the games that you truly love, and I'm happy.<br>Oversaturation is a myth. Even within the dreaded "oversaturated" genres, like the dreaded first person shooters and metroidvanias, you can will find titles that will impress you. The fact is, books have been getting made for thousands of years, exist in numbers far greater than video games could ever hope to reach, yet people are still coming up with new ideas. Even if every book was somehow a rehash of an old one, you'd never know. There are so many out there, the amount you'd need to realize that fact is greater than you could read in a thousand lifetimes. Video games are even broader a medium than books are, with countless more dimensions to explore. To the text, you add visuals, sound and interactivity. Humans could never hope to exhaust the amount of ideas that have yet to be explored.

Why are so many people talking about how most indie games are garbage? Like yeah, no shit, sherlock. When applied to art, Sturgeon's law always has and always will hold true. 90% of everything is crap, sometimes even more. The sad truth is, most people don't have the talent or passion to make something truly special. Obviously if you don't look at the mainstream examples you're going to find a ton of garbage. That applies to triple A games, that applies to indie games, that applies to movies, that applies to books, that applies to everything. It doesn't indicate a regression, it's the natural order of things. Seeing people going "oh no, too much garbage, I give up" genuinely makes me sad. Leave the garbage alone and keep looking. There are games for you. There are movies for you. There are books for you. Resort to piracy if it's too hard on your wallet, I don't care. Buy the games that you truly love, and I'm happy.
Oversaturation is a myth. Even within the dreaded "oversaturated" genres, like the dreaded first person shooters and metroidvanias, you can will find titles that will impress you. The fact is, books have been getting made for thousands of years, exist in numbers far greater than video games could ever hope to reach, yet people are still coming up with new ideas. Even if every book was somehow a rehash of an old one, you'd never know. There are so many out there, the amount you'd need to realize that fact is greater than you could read in a thousand lifetimes. Video games are even broader a medium than books are, with countless more dimensions to explore. To the text, you add visuals, sound and interactivity. Humans could never hope to exhaust the amount of ideas that have yet to be explored.

@weebsarentpeople Most of them very much are commercial failures. The indie games you hear of aren't even a drop in the ocean. Everyone and their mother's making an indie game, it's the hip thing to do right now. I'm not saying indie games are bad,  love indie games. Just playing devil's advocate here because what you said was just so completely, utterly and obviously wrong. Overall a terrible way to defend indie games. 0/10.

i mean with indie games there's a large amount of survivor bias. if an indie title flops, unless it's some kickstarter game or something, it'll largely go unnoticed and no one will really care, but if a AAA title flops, you are going to know about it.

i mean with indie games there's a large amount of survivor bias. if an indie title flops, unless it's some kickstarter game or something, it'll largely go unnoticed and no one will really care, but if a AAA title flops, you are going to know about it.

@Meme The Master Monarch Indie games can be good or bad, simple as that. But there will always be many amazing games being made

@Meme The Master Monarch Indie games can be good or bad, simple as that. But there will always be many amazing games being made

@Crono It is because Indie Games are usually niche, they’ve more so become a vessel for unhindered artistic visions, experimentation and unique spins on gaming tropes and genres. Of course they aren’t as profitable as games that aim to gain as much profit as possible via; attempting to be appealing and/or accessible to as large of an audience as possible (eg. Among Us) or having an incredibly recognisable and known IP attached (Insomniac’s Spider-Man). Not to mention the much lower budgets, almost non-existent marketing, and the incredible amount of Indie creators and games that make it hard to find a specific game you might want to play. Indie Games are vital to the future of the industry, otherwise most games will just keep becoming more corporate.

I feel like indies and mid-budget games have never been more fun, while AAAs have never been more depressing.

There's almost too many good indies on Steam. I could never find the time to play every single one that interests me.

Tons of crap, too, but I can wait for the reviews to sift through the duds.

I feel like indies and mid-budget games have never been more fun, while AAAs have never been more depressing.

There's almost too many good indies on Steam. I could never find the time to play every single one that interests me.

Tons of crap, too, but I can wait for the reviews to sift through the duds.

@Keat0n_ afcourse just like not all aaa games are gud but MOST indie games are good

@Keat0n_ afcourse just like not all aaa games are gud but MOST indie games are good

@BitTripBoy omori, grimms hollow, undertale, deltarune, and wayyy more

@BitTripBoy omori, grimms hollow, undertale, deltarune, and wayyy more

@Aidan Feliciano From what you've said so far, it sounds like you just don't like video games in general.

@Aidan Feliciano From what you've said so far, it sounds like you just don't like video games in general.

An indie game I haven’t played but, after seeing this video, I’d recommend to everyone is Outer Wilds. This games is really like no other, and combines space exploration, archeology, and a fun, almost mountaineering/adventurist vibe. This game has changed people, in that some of the messages hidden or embedded within the game and some of its endings is seriously emotional and philosophical. The work of Alex Beachum cannot go unrecognized; this game will soon see an astronomical rise. And I hope that’s after some of you read this, you’ll go explore the Outer Wilds.

yep, indies are cool. loved a bunch of them this decade.

yep, indies are cool. loved a bunch of them this decade.

@Crono portal technically started as an indie game

@Crono portal technically started as an indie game

Yes, and we also desperately need to encourage entrepreneurship and/or access to grants in the arts for people who want to spend the years required to learn the hard/soft skills, networking design, development of emerging gaming trends, indie games will cease if we continue making the same one person studio pixel art games that copy 90% of their dna from the metroidvania and souls genre, we need to get back to that 10-20 person team and limit the scope creep and tedium.

We really should support the good ones, the ones that push the boundaries and do something new and fun... This also applies to AAA titles, they should get recognized for good games too.

We really should support the good ones, the ones that push the boundaries and do something new and fun... This also applies to AAA titles, they should get recognized for good games too.

@a toaster Oh, I didn't know. you absolute fool. lol jk

@a toaster Oh, I didn't know. you absolute fool. lol jk

Indi devs are up their own ass snuffing their farts of a "game" full of bugs, mechanical dead ends, just aggravating concepts, and completely unhinged and unwilling to consider they might have screwed up but still wants money. The problem is most games are just competitions and flexing, not about entertainment.

Indi devs are up their own ass snuffing their farts of a "game" full of bugs, mechanical dead ends, just aggravating concepts, and completely unhinged and unwilling to consider they might have screwed up but still wants money. The problem is most games are just competitions and flexing, not about entertainment.

@a toaster Maybe try playing other games

@a toaster Maybe try playing other games

@Crono What about Undertale and Deltarune?<br>Also, you should probably look for more examples.

@Crono What about Undertale and Deltarune?
Also, you should probably look for more examples.

@Crono two words: hollow knight. Shit ton of content for only 15 dollars

@Crono two words: hollow knight. Shit ton of content for only 15 dollars

@HagonIsTheMan But there more people getting bullied for liking a game than hating a game.

@HagonIsTheMan But there more people getting bullied for liking a game than hating a game.

Unfortunately. Even Indie games were not immune to this bad mentality of Toxic Community and stubborn contration who bullies and harass people for liking it. Just look at Minecraft, FNAF, Undertale, Fortnite, Among Us and now Friday Night Funkin'.

Unfortunately. Even Indie games were not immune to this bad mentality of Toxic Community and stubborn contration who bullies and harass people for liking it. Just look at Minecraft, FNAF, Undertale, Fortnite, Among Us and now Friday Night Funkin'.

@HagonIsTheMan <br>They’re still trying to put this as industry standard for the new gen. also sales tax.

@HagonIsTheMan
They’re still trying to put this as industry standard for the new gen. also sales tax.

@HagonIsTheMan
Thing is, I would expect triple a to have better quality products, but when 3 fucks in a garage can outmatch them so often nowadays there’s a real problem. Of course, the majority of indie games are going to be garbage because of their sheer accessibility, but that shouldn’t mean we should discredit a good chunk of them who actually manage to be good just because they’re void of a major publisher. Not everything is either a diamond in the rough or garbage, sometimes it can be in the middle of the two, but either way it doesn’t matter because you didn’t pay 70 bucks for it.

Most of the times you don’t even have to sift through any garbage because the treacherous and free market-like attitude of the indie market already made the cream of the crop rise to the top.

@Aidan Feliciano If you haven’t played Hollow Knight, Celeste, Dark Souls, or Cuphead, please don’t give up on games yet.

@Aidan Feliciano If you haven’t played Hollow Knight, Celeste, Dark Souls, or Cuphead, please don’t give up on games yet.

@Crono indie games just have a higher variance of quality. Most of them are either masterpieces or shovelware. And those masterpieces in the indie scene usually cost way less and provide more entertainment than AAA titles. Not to say there aren’t good AAAs though.

@Crono indie games just have a higher variance of quality. Most of them are either masterpieces or shovelware. And those masterpieces in the indie scene usually cost way less and provide more entertainment than AAA titles. Not to say there aren’t good AAAs though.

@SuperRobotFish stop the hype. You're getting yourself ready for disaster

@SuperRobotFish stop the hype. You're getting yourself ready for disaster

except for let it flow, that is an example of a BAD indie game

except for let it flow, that is an example of a BAD indie game

Indie game are on a dowbward spiral. They all look The fucking same

Indie game are on a dowbward spiral. They all look The fucking same

Gonna play bugs fable now. Since nintendo doesnt want to make a paper mario game witj rpg elements i gladly support that game

Gonna play bugs fable now. Since nintendo doesnt want to make a paper mario game witj rpg elements i gladly support that game

Indie developers care about their games, publishers vare about the money it could make them.

Indie developers care about their games, publishers vare about the money it could make them.

@BitTripBoy tbh plants vs zombies isn't really a indie game anymore (because ea) but i do agree

@BitTripBoy tbh plants vs zombies isn't really a indie game anymore (because ea) but i do agree

@Crono cough cough battleblock theater, castle crashers, the binding of isaac, hollow knight, don't starve, ori, super meat boy, celeste, pit people, spelunky, terraria, minecraft, undertale, five nights at freddy's, deltarune, untitled goose game, getting over it, the stanley parable, fall guys, among us i guess, superhot, cuphead, etc cough cough

@Crono *cough cough* battleblock theater, castle crashers, the binding of isaac, hollow knight, don't starve, ori, super meat boy, celeste, pit people, spelunky, terraria, minecraft, undertale, five nights at freddy's, deltarune, untitled goose game, getting over it, the stanley parable, fall guys, among us i guess, superhot, cuphead, etc *cough cough*

@Anna Arkless Maybe, it's just that all the "indie" games I've seen on steam for example all share one of like 6 styles/gimmicks. If you've got any to recommend, I'd love to check them out

@Anna Arkless Maybe, it's just that all the "indie" games I've seen on steam for example all share one of like 6 styles/gimmicks. If you've got any to recommend, I'd love to check them out

@Dave Fred you're not looking hard enough, there are so many amazing and unique indie games around

@Dave Fred you're not looking hard enough, there are so many amazing and unique indie games around

Nah, indie games have all become very similar these days

Nah, indie games have all become very similar these days

Even though most of them see Indie games as the savoir of the gaming industry itself the irony is, that the indie branch nowadays is just like their AAA Brother running after trends and block busters.
I rememver, when Super Meat Boy came out, all of a sudden every indie dev made a Super Meat Boy lookalike.
The same a few years later with Dear Esther. And then you got Walking Simulators everywhere.
And now we have the 2D Metroidvania Rogue Like/Lights like Hollow Knight. Make it pixel looking, maybe permadeath or pretty hard, a cryptic story and voila you have your new indie blockbuster.

The whole Indie ordeal is just AA but smaller in scale. So much for the big savior of the gaming community...

yeah, indie games of the 2010s have been absolutely excellent. In fact, I haven't played a triple A game in over a year, because indie games provide so much more lovely and unique experiences

yeah, indie games of the 2010s have been absolutely excellent. In fact, I haven't played a triple A game in over a year, because indie games provide so much more lovely and unique experiences

@Crono have you heard of hollow knight or outer wilds

@Crono have you heard of hollow knight or outer wilds

as long as they're not charging me 20 dollars for a god damn walking simulator.

as long as they're not charging me 20 dollars for a god damn walking simulator.

Even indie's are in massive downfall with cash grab early access garbage

Even indie's are in massive downfall with cash grab early access garbage

@Crono I suggest Project Moon's Lobotomy Corporation and Library of Ruina. Of course they have gore so 18+ only. But hey, I won't tell if you won't.

@Crono I suggest Project Moon's Lobotomy Corporation and Library of Ruina. Of course they have gore so 18+ only. But hey, I won't tell if you won't.

They are all the same and I am not interested in the genre they use so no. I just stick with games from the 2000's like Halo CE - Halo 3 or the Half life series.

They are all the same and I am not interested in the genre they use so no. I just stick with games from the 2000's like Halo CE - Halo 3 or the Half life series.

Ignore my comment its too deep into the abyss for me ti edit

Ignore my comment its too deep into the abyss for me ti edit

Have y'all never heard of Dwarf Fortress?

Have y'all never heard of Dwarf Fortress?

There the only games i play now a days... once a blue moon ill pick up a AAA game... but thats starting to feel like once a few years now a days!

There the only games i play now a days... once a blue moon ill pick up a AAA game... but thats starting to feel like once a few years now a days!

@Woyio I simply support good games and what has the potential of so, indie or not. And there's the old saying that 90% of anything is crap

@Woyio I simply support good games and what has the potential of so, indie or not. And there's the old saying that 90% of anything is crap

Indie games are good but this type of mentality is why we get games like YiiK. Indie games are the great messiah of the game industry, they have just as many problems.

Indie games are good but this type of mentality is why we get games like YiiK. Indie games are the great messiah of the game industry, they have just as many problems.

@JKTwice Pixel art looks more beautiful than low 3-D polygon art. It's one of the reasons why SNES-Genesis era holds up so much better than PS1/N64

@JKTwice Pixel art looks more beautiful than low 3-D polygon art. It's one of the reasons why SNES-Genesis era holds up so much better than PS1/N64

i heard this comment in the foekoe voice

i heard this comment in the foekoe voice

@Matheus Bezerra de Lima i agree fully with that

@Matheus Bezerra de Lima i agree fully with that

@Jamie No. Even if all of them were pixel art, pixel art is NOT all the same. Pixel art is endless of possible art styles

@Jamie No. Even if all of them were pixel art, pixel art is NOT all the same. Pixel art is endless of possible art styles

@philRaco Indie The indie scene is still the best for unique and/or simpler games with amazing gameplay and passion projects of a few developers. Of course, like any scene, there are always gonna be people trying to copy other's successes, that's inevitable.

@philRaco Indie The indie scene is still the best for unique and/or simpler games with amazing gameplay and passion projects of a few developers. Of course, like any scene, there are always gonna be people trying to copy other's successes, that's inevitable.

not all indies are great games but a lot are

not all indies are great games but a lot are

This is way subnautica and terraria are some of my favourite games of all time

This is way subnautica and terraria are some of my favourite games of all time

@Crono That's a very short-sighted statement

@Crono That's a very short-sighted statement

Yeah they said that about indie music but look where that turned out

Yeah they said that about indie music but look where that turned out

holy crap lois, it's the funny hollow knight man

holy crap lois, it's the funny hollow knight man

I don’t know, I think Indie Games add to an oversaturated market but I like them, aside from that.

I don’t know, I think Indie Games add to an oversaturated market but I like them, aside from that.

@dandre3K  I have grinded only twice in the game and i have 112% . But the performance is a problem ngl.

@dandre3K  I have grinded only twice in the game and i have 112% . But the performance is a problem ngl.

@Cindy Aurum among us lacks character development and story. Metal Gear did it better

@Cindy Aurum among us lacks character development and story. Metal Gear did it better

@Spongiroth EnaPants - EnaTenkiyoGaming (april 2021) oof

@Spongiroth EnaPants - EnaTenkiyoGaming (april 2021) oof

No deadlines and no expectations unless it's kickstarter

No deadlines and no expectations unless it's kickstarter

@Spongiroth EnaPants - EnaTenkiyoGaming thanks for the fast reply man! I'll check them out.

@Spongiroth EnaPants - EnaTenkiyoGaming thanks for the fast reply man! I'll check them out.

@i don't check my notifications I doubt you'll get this, but did you ever put together a list of the games, you thought were worth trying. Either AAA, AA, or Indie?

@i don't check my notifications I doubt you'll get this, but did you ever put together a list of the games, you thought were worth trying. Either AAA, AA, or Indie?

@ItCanWait Killzone Mercenary, Mortal Kombat, Uncharted Golden Abyss, Sonic All Stars Racing Transformed, Tearaway, Rayman Legends, etc.

@ItCanWait Killzone Mercenary, Mortal Kombat, Uncharted Golden Abyss, Sonic All Stars Racing Transformed, Tearaway, Rayman Legends, etc.

@anab0lic I've asked another commenter, but I see your reply and wanted to know if you had any recommendations? Especially for the PSVita &/or Switch?

@anab0lic I've asked another commenter, but I see your reply and wanted to know if you had any recommendations? Especially for the PSVita &/or Switch?

@Spongiroth EnaPants - EnaTenkiyoGaming do you have any recommendations? I know this is months later, but I hold onto my vita, cause it's a really cool Handheld Console, but I've never found any good games....

@Spongiroth EnaPants - EnaTenkiyoGaming do you have any recommendations? I know this is months later, but I hold onto my vita, cause it's a really cool Handheld Console, but I've never found any good games....

@Crono bruh. Look at hollow knight and Celeste. Indie games cost less, have  been polished more/feel more completed upon launch, have a good amount of content, and break the mold.

@Crono bruh. Look at hollow knight and Celeste. Indie games cost less, have  been polished more/feel more completed upon launch, have a good amount of content, and break the mold.

I mean, I just started playing receiver 2 and I find it really fun.

I mean, I just started playing receiver 2 and I find it really fun.

@Sebastian Brinkmann "If everybody supported indie games, they wouldn' t be indie anymore." nt really, since the point o an indie studio/developer is that it's independent

@Sebastian Brinkmann "If everybody supported indie games, they wouldn' t be indie anymore." nt really, since the point o an indie studio/developer is that it's independent

@Spongiroth EnaPants - EnaTenkiyoGaming Ah, truly a connoisseur.

@Spongiroth EnaPants - EnaTenkiyoGaming Ah, truly a connoisseur.

@dandre3K Ratchet and clank is makeing a comeback though and thats awsome,also crash lets not forget that

@dandre3K Ratchet and clank is makeing a comeback though and thats awsome,also crash lets not forget that

@No Peaceful Solotions  Anymore And Kingdom Hearts, Pokemon, Viewtiful Joe, Ratchet & Clank etc. Gameplay is paramount, without it there's no game yet people will still try to debate that fact.

@No Peaceful Solotions  Anymore And Kingdom Hearts, Pokemon, Viewtiful Joe, Ratchet & Clank etc. Gameplay is paramount, without it there's no game yet people will still try to debate that fact.

@dandre3K that was most defently the result of people wanting "graphics" over anything i always found that to be silly  my fav games barely have any graphics that are real. Norita,gungeon,total war warhammer,hades,borderlands 3. All of these are not considered "realistic graphics." they are stylized to fit the game and thats how it is.

@dandre3K that was most defently the result of people wanting "graphics" over anything i always found that to be silly  my fav games barely have any graphics that are real. Norita,gungeon,total war warhammer,hades,borderlands 3. All of these are not considered "realistic graphics." they are stylized to fit the game and thats how it is.

@No Peaceful Solotions  Anymore If anything I'm the antithesis of a boomer. You're definitely right about weirdos using indies for their weak propaganda, but they're a minority. Its the journalists fault for giving their walking simulators far too much attention.

@No Peaceful Solotions  Anymore If anything I'm the antithesis of a boomer. You're definitely right about weirdos using indies for their weak propaganda, but they're a minority. Its the journalists fault for giving their walking simulators far too much attention.

@No Peaceful Solotions  Anymore even if it was DLC we pay for . i will buy it . i think the dev deserve the money . the game is underrated gem .

@No Peaceful Solotions  Anymore even if it was DLC we pay for . i will buy it . i think the dev deserve the money . the game is underrated gem .

@Cool Ss true hes also just releaseing what seems to be on its way to being an entire game for free so thats cool

@Cool Ss true hes also just releaseing what seems to be on its way to being an entire game for free so thats cool

@Super Penguin animations How about I play what ever the FUCKK I want and you mind your business?

@Super Penguin animations How about I play what ever the FUCKK I want and you mind your business?

@No Peaceful Solotions  Anymore yup . i can't wait for the DLC . the game was in development hell for few years as i remember , where it got delayed for few years . so it will take time for sure .

@No Peaceful Solotions  Anymore yup . i can't wait for the DLC . the game was in development hell for few years as i remember , where it got delayed for few years . so it will take time for sure .

@Shin Shaman blah blah blah blah blah looking foward to a game does not make one a consoomer you are mis useing a buzzword that only poped up very recently. You are no better than sjws calling everyone who disagrees with you on anything a nazzzi

@Shin Shaman blah blah blah blah blah looking foward to a game does not make one a consoomer you are mis useing a buzzword that only poped up very recently. You are no better than sjws calling everyone who disagrees with you on anything a nazzzi

@Cool Ss Im hyped for the continuation to katana zero  the dev has been working on for months. Katana zero has the game play of an insanely difficult 90s action game. The amazing high quality pixel art of the modern indie scene and the engaging story and charictors of undertale.

@Cool Ss Im hyped for the continuation to katana zero  the dev has been working on for months. Katana zero has the game play of an insanely difficult 90s action game. The amazing high quality pixel art of the modern indie scene and the engaging story and charictors of undertale.

When people say this i feel they forget that indie games are the realm of the sjw and the political activist 90% of the time....indie games are not going to save anything.

When people say this i feel they forget that indie games are the realm of the sjw and the political activist 90% of the time....indie games are not going to save anything.

Tfw $60 triple A titles feel like low budget indie games, and $15 low budget indie games feel like triple A titles.

Tfw $60 triple A titles feel like low budget indie games, and $15 low budget indie games feel like triple A titles.

@dandre3K It seemed like so, like you need to be spoon fed progression in order to have fun.

@dandre3K It seemed like so, like you need to be spoon fed progression in order to have fun.

@Crono cuphead, the binding of isaac, super meat boy, 60 seconds, undertale, spelunky and spelunky 2 and more, bruh

@Crono cuphead, the binding of isaac, super meat boy, 60 seconds, undertale, spelunky and spelunky 2 and more, bruh

Some of the best games I’ve gotten were either indie or smaller studios like Snow Runner and Darkest Dungeon. Hell I consider snow runner my favorite game from 2020. Also their expansions rock

Some of the best games I’ve gotten were either indie or smaller studios like Snow Runner and Darkest Dungeon. Hell I consider snow runner my favorite game from 2020. Also their expansions rock

Hylics 2, Juice World, Dwarf Fortress, and many others are going to change the world of games. The weirder the better. Let the indie titles flow!

Hylics 2, Juice World, Dwarf Fortress, and many others are going to change the world of games. The weirder the better. Let the indie titles flow!

i think the problem is that for every undertale there will be thousands of absolutely terrible indie games

i think the problem is that for every undertale there will be thousands of absolutely terrible indie games

Lol indie games are done. Only so many small games to make.

Lol indie games are done. Only so many small games to make.

I just love how universal the "git gud" defense is for shitty game design.

I just love how universal the "git gud" defense is for shitty game design.

@Prostagma? Ok mindreader

Absolutely nothing I said can be construed as me wanting my hand-held.

@Prostagma? Ok mindreader

Absolutely nothing I said can be construed as me wanting my hand-held.

Unfortunately indie games suffer from the same fate, they can only be so different from each other when they are limited by budget, time and resources. So in the end you find yourself playing the same 2d game over and over just with a different title and minor changes. Also it's certainly easy to make games nowadays with tools like unity, so this creates another layer of saturation of crapware that you have to go through in order to find the hidden gem.

@dandre3K I too don't particularly find hollow knight a masterpiece as others flaunt it to be, but your reasoning for saying it's bad is just plain stupid. You just expect games to hand-hold through exploration so you can have fun, which is ok, but saying a whole genre is bad just because you don't feel like exploring on your own and getting lost it's mind boggling.

People are used to naming the same indie games as success stories every single time when the indie scene is as corrupted as the mainstream.

There's a sea of awful indie games, and no "you gotta search for it" doesn't remove the rest of trash tagged ass indie.

What you want is a developer with principles and a vision, not a blanket tag as "indie", there can be mainstream games made with passion as much as indies can be greedy slot machines.

@Aidan Feliciano Don't let the adulting door hit you on the way out.

@Aidan Feliciano Don't let the adulting door hit you on the way out.

@Crono You are literally using the TWO BEST AAA GAMES OF THE DECADE to argue against Indie games being a great alternative.

Your head must be so empty I could see the end of the universe inside it.

Jesus christ, man.

@Crono You are literally using the TWO BEST AAA GAMES OF THE DECADE to argue against Indie games being a great alternative.

Your head must be so empty I could see the end of the universe inside it.

Jesus christ, man.

Yes support the never ending titles of indie games that are just as shitty as triple A titles that will only contribute to the second video game crash

Yes support the never ending titles of indie games that are just as shitty as triple A titles that will only contribute to the second video game crash

Until the indie games become the corporate overlords themselves, and the cycle starts over.

Until the indie games become the corporate overlords themselves, and the cycle starts over.

Monster Train is a pretty good indie game, you should check it out if you haven't already

Monster Train is a pretty good indie game, you should check it out if you haven't already

My favourite indie game is verdun a ww1 fps

My favourite indie game is verdun a ww1 fps

@Crono yeah but there's indie games like Hollow Knight, Celeste, Hades, Dead Cells, Shovel Knight, Stardew Valley ect that are absolutely amazing

@Crono yeah but there's indie games like Hollow Knight, Celeste, Hades, Dead Cells, Shovel Knight, Stardew Valley ect that are absolutely amazing

@Crono nah there's a lot of amazing indie games

@Crono nah there's a lot of amazing indie games

I love the war in the comments. People are either blindly praising all indie games/AAA games or criticizing them for perceived faults.

I like both AAA titles and indie games, the caveat is that you have to dig a little bit in either market to find something good.

A lot of indie games fall flat because they either don't have a big enough budget, or are trying to emulate the success of other games (usually rogue-likes).

AAA games likewise have bloated budgets that can lead to an overdesigned mess of a game like Duke Nukem Forever.
AAA games are also guilty of chasing the latest trends, like with Apex Legends and shooters in general.

The truth is, without the AAA market we wouldn't have DOOM 2016 or DOOM Eternal. Without the indie market we wouldn't have Minecraft or The Binding of Issac. We need both.

AAA developers and indie developers have financial support and creative freedom respectively, which can lead to drastically different design philosophies when it comes to video games. It all boils down to the type of experience you're looking for.

I haven't seen an Indie game give me the sense of satisfaction that the Gunplay is Destiny 2 has given me.

I haven't seen an Indie game give me the sense of satisfaction that the Gunplay is Destiny 2 has given me.

I did. I bought the new my friend pedro game on ps4 and they thank me for buying their game in the credits

I did. I bought the new my friend pedro game on ps4 and they thank me for buying their game in the credits

So i should support indian devs? Am i doing this right?

So i should support indian devs? Am i doing this right?

@Crono spiderman ps4: console exclusive, nothing new, boring.
Bloodborne: repetitive

Shovel knight: original mechanics, story, characters.
Undertale: replayable, mysterious, charming,unique
Changed: heavily experimental and very unique.
Indies are waaaay better than 90% of AAA

@Crono spiderman ps4: console exclusive, nothing new, boring.
Bloodborne: repetitive

Shovel knight: original mechanics, story, characters.
Undertale: replayable, mysterious, charming,unique
Changed: heavily experimental and very unique.
Indies are waaaay better than 90% of AAA

@poog  exactly, they are not scared of sometging unique or new

@poog  exactly, they are not scared of sometging unique or new

@PrincessScotchtape I mean considering how literally any game released by any person who isn’t a AAA studio counts as an indie game, of course most of them are going to suck,  but you can’t judge them all based on that as most are fairly low effort and were easy to make.  If you want a good representation of why people like indie games you have to look at the best ones, the ones with passion put into them.  Im sure even back then there was a ton of garbage with a few shining examples.  Honestly in recent years I’ve played more decent indies than ever before

@MagmaVision games and films are two very different industries.  Making a good game nowadays is as simple (but certainly not easy) as having the skill, time, and software to make one, so indie games can often be very high quality despite a low budget.  Movies on the other hand are expensive, no matter what.  You can’t make a movie with a computer and some talent like you can with an indie game.  THAT’S why indie movies are often terrible.  I don’t think you’ve played many indie games, all of my favorite games are indie, and yet your saying that indie games are garbage.  Most of them are because any game released by some guy counts as an indie, but obviously people aren’t referring to that when they talk about indies, they are talking about the quality ones made by passionate and talented developers who really wanted to make something unique unlike a AAA studio whose primary goal is to make money, which can get in the way of making a truly great game.

@Shin Shaman your own statements are contradicting themselves, as you are calling indie games garbage and yet saying that your a “hardcore gamer” and that the games industry is over saturated and that everybody else is a “casual normie” when in fact if the only thing you play are big AAA titles you are the casual normie, and indie games tend to be a lot more unique than the average AAA title

@Faidou a lot less than the AAA scene my man that stuff sucks AND it’s 3 times the price

@Faidou a lot less than the AAA scene my man that stuff sucks AND it’s 3 times the price

@Katz I think they’re referring to the good ones.  Any old game made by some dude in 5 hours counts as an indie game, but obviously that’s not what Foekoe is referring to here.

@Katz I think they’re referring to the good ones.  Any old game made by some dude in 5 hours counts as an indie game, but obviously that’s not what Foekoe is referring to here.

xljmgna No problem. Rogue likes are one of those genres that definitely are not for everyone. Kind of like Soulsborne games or Monster Hunter games. So like I said, it’s definitely understandable that you don’t like them

xljmgna No problem. Rogue likes are one of those genres that definitely are not for everyone. Kind of like Soulsborne games or Monster Hunter games. So like I said, it’s definitely understandable that you don’t like them

xljmgna Cool. Don’t care though. It’s fine that you don’t like rogue likes. But I do. It’s understandable that you don’t, but quite frankly, I don’t care. I’m not trying to make you like them.

xljmgna Cool. Don’t care though. It’s fine that you don’t like rogue likes. But I do. It’s understandable that you don’t, but quite frankly, I don’t care. I’m not trying to make you like them.

@Crono I think indies , PlayStation , Nintendo , and many more have been consistently good for the past few years

@Crono I think indies , PlayStation , Nintendo , and many more have been consistently good for the past few years

@multilad816 based. Can you elaborate on that statement please?

@multilad816 based. Can you elaborate on that statement please?

@poog I’ve gotta say, it’s nice to see dev teams like team cherry have integrity, but idk man, there are some people out there who WILL sell out when the money is good enough.

@poog I’ve gotta say, it’s nice to see dev teams like team cherry have integrity, but idk man, there are some people out there who WILL sell out when the money is good enough.

I'm not sure indie titles are the solution, indie games have a very limited scope due to lack of resrouces, and I feel they've stagnated into an endless stream of pixel art retro sidescrollers but whatever.

I feel reviving the middle market would be a good solution, AA games, but I'm not sure how one would do that.

The fact of the matter is the industry just doesn't seem to want to make games I want to play and it saddens me.

@Count Of Monte Cristo oh, and some indie devs like Team Cherry have deliberately turned down brand deals and shit like that because they dont wanna corporatize their IP. Indie devs have integrity.

@Count Of Monte Cristo oh, and some indie devs like Team Cherry have deliberately turned down brand deals and shit like that because they dont wanna corporatize their IP. Indie devs have integrity.

@Count Of Monte Cristo that would have to take a collapse on the establishment of the current triple A companies, which isnt happening anytime soon. And even then, there will always be more aspiring indie developers who care more about art than money. It's not like this is the only wave of indie devs

@Count Of Monte Cristo that would have to take a collapse on the establishment of the current triple A companies, which isnt happening anytime soon. And even then, there will always be more aspiring indie developers who care more about art than money. It's not like this is the only wave of indie devs

@poog but then watch the cycle repeat, then indie devs will no longer be “independent,” once they have enough funding behind them, they will inevitably become just as big as Triple A games, forcing the cycle to repeat.

@poog but then watch the cycle repeat, then indie devs will no longer be “independent,” once they have enough funding behind them, they will inevitably become just as big as Triple A games, forcing the cycle to repeat.

yeaaah, though for every Minecraft there's a boring pixel platformer only called good because it surpasses the non-existent expectations.

yeaaah, though for every Minecraft there's a boring pixel platformer only called good because it surpasses the non-existent expectations.

@Blues and often are made with the same sacrifices AAA games have to make for "marketability" a lot of these indie studios operate exactly like AAA ones just on a smaller scale.

@Blues and often are made with the same sacrifices AAA games have to make for "marketability" a lot of these indie studios operate exactly like AAA ones just on a smaller scale.

There are exceptions but indie games don't do it for me most of the time. Since they largely consist of 16-32 bit platforming or puzzle games.

There are exceptions but indie games don't do it for me most of the time. Since they largely consist of 16-32 bit platforming or puzzle games.

@Obunga Pyramid at least my expectations are lower so that if its trash i dont feel as bad but triple aaa games are supposed to be good. Theyre made by big companies

@Obunga Pyramid at least my expectations are lower so that if its trash i dont feel as bad but triple aaa games are supposed to be good. Theyre made by big companies

@weebsarentpeople a lot of them are tho. That’s why only very few receive praise and popularity

@weebsarentpeople a lot of them are tho. That’s why only very few receive praise and popularity

This is why you evaluate and support anything on a case by case basis*

This is why you evaluate and support anything on a case by case basis*

@Crono <br>Ah yes, the most well known Indie games Spiderman Ps4 and Bloodborne.

@Crono
Ah yes, the most well known Indie games Spiderman Ps4 and Bloodborne.

@FiremanPC don't judge a book by its cover

@FiremanPC don't judge a book by its cover

@Aidan Feliciano <b>laughs in Spelunky</b>

@TeamPendragon how about Spelunky? That thing I think is a masterpiece

@TeamPendragon how about Spelunky? That thing I think is a masterpiece

Most indie games just either rip off existing games (Cave Story, Undertale, etc) or use a fancy art style to distract from generic game design (Cuphead, Hollow Knight, etc). Indies' success has come from the fact they're the "in" thing, rather than their quality. Sure, there are some gems to be found, but their "good" rate isn't much better than AAA titles.

@Crono Hollow Knight, Enter the Gungeon, Darkest Dungeon, The Binding of Isaac, Celeste, One Step From Eden, Slay the Spire, Monster Train, all my favorites and they're all indie. Look for them, and you'll find gold.

@Crono Hollow Knight, Enter the Gungeon, Darkest Dungeon, The Binding of Isaac, Celeste, One Step From Eden, Slay the Spire, Monster Train, all my favorites and they're all indie. Look for them, and you'll find gold.

@Th3 Grave of Wrath we speak not of ... him

@Th3 Grave of Wrath we speak not of ... him

The irony is that these replies are extremely toxic on a video telling that we are too serious and defensive essentially. I like and respect indie games more, but I cant say that my most cherished experiences were with big titles. Just chill useless of a rare case of an objectively wrong opinion. We are proving Emp's point here.

The irony is that these replies are extremely toxic on a video telling that we are too serious and defensive essentially. I like and respect indie games more, but I cant say that my most cherished experiences were with big titles. Just chill useless of a rare case of an objectively wrong opinion. We are proving Emp's point here.

@dandre3K I never pulled out a map until I replayed it on Steel Soul mode.

@dandre3K I never pulled out a map until I replayed it on Steel Soul mode.

@Jonah Clements >ThEy mAdE gAmEs BeTtEr iN My dAy

I'm a 90s baby. Ocarina of Time is overrated and SOTN is the worst game I've ever played. Fortnite is the goat. I'm fair and balanced like Fox news.

@Jonah Clements >ThEy mAdE gAmEs BeTtEr iN My dAy

I'm a 90s baby. Ocarina of Time is overrated and SOTN is the worst game I've ever played. Fortnite is the goat. I'm fair and balanced like Fox news.

@Jonah Clements You're never stuck in the age of Google. Being lost and grinding enemies for maps is a waste of time when the map can be pulled from the internet. The ways areas are layed out plus the map system and the lack of movement options early in the game makes the pacing trash.

@Jonah Clements You're never stuck in the age of Google. Being lost and grinding enemies for maps is a waste of time when the map can be pulled from the internet. The ways areas are layed out plus the map system and the lack of movement options early in the game makes the pacing trash.

@Jonah Clements >When has it lagged for you

Yes

@Jonah Clements >When has it lagged for you

Yes

Indies are either:
Good games
Very terrible games
funni internet humor games
Bad gameplay with stupid history games
Unique games
Very generic games.
With traits of: Overrated,Underrated,Known and not Known
This of course,being my opinion.

Indies are either:
Good games
Very terrible games
funni internet humor games
Bad gameplay with stupid history games
Unique games
Very generic games.
With traits of: Overrated,Underrated,Known and not Known
This of course,being my opinion.

@Crono Using good game design doesn't mean you copied another good game.

@Crono Using good game design doesn't mean you copied another good game.

@Jonah Clements  Most of those copy Metroid

@Jonah Clements  Most of those copy Metroid

@Jonah Clements The only indie metroidvania that interests me is Bushiden, look at some of those "upcoming metroidvania games" lists and you'll see that they all have the same artstyle and honestly don't look as good as SOTN or Super Metroid anyway.

@Jonah Clements The only indie metroidvania that interests me is Bushiden, look at some of those "upcoming metroidvania games" lists and you'll see that they all have the same artstyle and honestly don't look as good as SOTN or Super Metroid anyway.

@dandre3K Getting lost is not the same as getting stuck. Getting stuck is when there is nowhere you can perceive that you can go. Getting lost is the exact opposite of this, where there are so many places you can go that you can't figure out how to get back. But in Hollow Knight, you usually don't need to go back.

@dandre3K Getting lost is not the same as getting stuck. Getting stuck is when there is nowhere you can perceive that you can go. Getting lost is the exact opposite of this, where there are so many places you can go that you can't figure out how to get back. But in Hollow Knight, you usually don't need to go back.

@dandre3K When has it lagged for you? And there is an abundance of geo everywhere. Literally the only time I have ever had to grind geo was when I was trying to get the unbreakable charms, which are the late-game geo sink. And how is it not cohesive? Each and every area connects to at least two other areas(except for the Hive) and there are often secret ways into areas as well.

@dandre3K ThEy mAdE gAmEs BeTtEr iN My dAy!!!!

@dandre3K ThEy mAdE gAmEs BeTtEr iN My dAy!!!!

@Katz But unlike AAA games, that is something that is excusable. Indie games are where game devs who are just starting out come from. So of course a lot of them will be shit. And also most indie games are one person working with little funding. But for AAA games, they have no excuse since they have usually hundreds of people working on them, with all the funding they could want.

@MrConnman123 Have you played any indie metroidvanias? Have you played Hollow Knight, the Messenger, and others?

@MrConnman123 Have you played any indie metroidvanias? Have you played Hollow Knight, the Messenger, and others?

@Crono Let me list you a couple of "boring" indie games: Minecraft, Hollow Knight, Terraria, Stardew Valley, Celeste, Ori, and that's just the well-known ones.

@Crono Let me list you a couple of "boring" indie games: Minecraft, Hollow Knight, Terraria, Stardew Valley, Celeste, Ori, and that's just the well-known ones.

@philRaco Indieit depends on the game
I liked stanley parable
And i liked rdr2

@philRaco Indieit depends on the game
I liked stanley parable
And i liked rdr2

@Whaterman yh, but there are a ton aaa's that are the safest games ever for the companys making them
On the other hand indies have to risk or else they get no profit
You dont see many AAAs anymore pulling risky moves

@Whaterman yh, but there are a ton aaa's that are the safest games ever for the companys making them
On the other hand indies have to risk or else they get no profit
You dont see many AAAs anymore pulling risky moves

My god the replies to this comment suck. People act like every single indie game is just derivative and that statement is as ridiculous as claiming every single AAA is derivative of things like CoD/GTA/Uncharted. The people mentioning indies aren't really bringing up many fresh/obscure ones either, though don't get me wrong they're quality games and not defined by being derivative. I may edit this later to list a couple of less widely-known ones thrown in and a variety of different styles of indie games to hopefully garner some interest for people to look into them more. Plus a lot of genres are dead in the AAA sphere and only kept alive by indies, so take that. Honestly part of the fun of looking into indies is to find more weird ones and just appreciate that culture, I think AAA gaming is actually more stale (not saying it sucks, I love a bunch of AAAs anyway) and the culture/hype around AAAs sucks more.

@Tzer probably obscure japanese ones but idk which

@Tzer probably obscure japanese ones but idk which

and look for obscure japanese ones or dos ones

and look for obscure japanese ones or dos ones

and then deviantart/rule 34/furaffinity/whatever the fuck comes along wipes their ass with it disgusts me and i never play indie games

that or its something like haven which makes me depressed so i dont play it

and then deviantart/rule 34/furaffinity/whatever the fuck comes along wipes their ass with it disgusts me and i never play indie games

that or its something like haven which makes me depressed so i dont play it

Yes all the retro style Doom/Quake/Blood/Duke Nukem inspired indie shooters are amazing about 75% of the time, it's mind-blowing!

Yes all the retro style Doom/Quake/Blood/Duke Nukem inspired indie shooters are amazing about 75% of the time, it's mind-blowing!

@Savage fox just because you only like certain games doesn't invalidate the importance, impact and quality of others. Sure, maybe in your experience you only focused on a few games over the years, but that does not mean there are only a few good indies every few years. In my experience, I've played every game I've mentioned, and liked every one of them better than almost every triple A Ive ever played.

@poog for me only stardew Valley and before that was factorio and rimworld and before that Minecraft for the average person to have a game they like every year is actually pretty low

@poog for me only stardew Valley and before that was factorio and rimworld and before that Minecraft for the average person to have a game they like every year is actually pretty low

@Savage fox Idk man, Shovel Knight released in 2014, Downwell/Crypt of the Necrodancer/Undertale in 2015, Firewatch/Hyper Light Drifter/Darkest Dungeon/Stardew Valley/Enter the Gungeon in 2016, Hollow Knight/Dead Cells/Little Nightmares/Night in the Woods/Cuphead in 2017 etc etc

I could keep going. There are amazing titles every year man.

@Savage fox Idk man, Shovel Knight released in 2014, Downwell/Crypt of the Necrodancer/Undertale in 2015, Firewatch/Hyper Light Drifter/Darkest Dungeon/Stardew Valley/Enter the Gungeon in 2016, Hollow Knight/Dead Cells/Little Nightmares/Night in the Woods/Cuphead in 2017 etc etc

I could keep going. There are amazing titles every year man.

@poog that's extremely rare though one every three years maybe

@poog that's extremely rare though one every three years maybe

@Savage fox oh yes there's a bunch of absolute shit in the indie scene. But when theres a good one, it blows most triple As out of the water

@Savage fox oh yes there's a bunch of absolute shit in the indie scene. But when theres a good one, it blows most triple As out of the water

the Indie scene is not all glamour it also has a fair share of shovelware

the Indie scene is not all glamour it also has a fair share of shovelware

@Daniel Jones I said quality gaming, not gaming

@Daniel Jones I said quality gaming, not gaming

@poog We want indie titles to be the future of gaming. The scary thing is thinking about what the future of gaming will actually be and it's a terrifying future.

@poog We want indie titles to be the future of gaming. The scary thing is thinking about what the future of gaming will actually be and it's a terrifying future.

@Zman 1471 uh yeah, that's why I said it sucks for me because I don't think this will end.

@Zman 1471 uh yeah, that's why I said it sucks for me because I don't think this will end.

Honestly I can't find any game interesting anymore mabye a huge part of it are the artstyles being used now.

Honestly I can't find any game interesting anymore mabye a huge part of it are the artstyles being used now.

Absolutely, but I will say that current trend in indie games are not my thing. I'm ready for low poly, cel-shaded 3D to come into swing. If it doesn't, then someone has gotta step in and make it so.

Absolutely, but I will say that current trend in indie games are not my thing. I'm ready for low poly, cel-shaded 3D to come into swing. If it doesn't, then someone has gotta step in and make it so.

Ah, yes I'm gonna support the next undertale, sorry I meant the brand new 2D RPG with elements of adventure and eye catching pixelart sprites that conveys a great story about the good things in the world.

Don't get me wrong there are some good indie titles but goddamn is filled with some repetitive stuff, either a platformer or a rpg with pixelart

Ah, yes I'm gonna support the next undertale, sorry I meant the brand new 2D RPG with elements of adventure and eye catching pixelart sprites that conveys a great story about the good things in the world.

Don't get me wrong there are some good indie titles but goddamn is filled with some repetitive stuff, either a platformer or a rpg with pixelart

@Mr. Zebra Papers,Please!
Stanley Parable
Terraria
Slime Rancher
Age of Civilizations 2(good indie strategy)
Celeste
There is No Game!(pretty good puzzle game)
Dude,Stop(Polish indie game with puzzles,execpt pretty good)
This War of Mine(One of my fave anti-war war games)
Undertale
Enter the Gungeon
Binding of Isaac
literally every TinyBuild game
Among Us
Henry Stickmin Collection(and past henry games)
Superhot
Surgeon Simulator
Goat Simulator
Serious Sam games

These are pretty popular indie titles,specially Dude,Stop for the speedrun community.

Nintendo also makes allot of good games<br>Just overpriced

Nintendo also makes allot of good games
Just overpriced

Yes and no. If indie games become mainstream or remotely popular they’ll receive unnecessary hate if pushed in the media just enough for people to get annoyed at its presence.

Yes and no. If indie games become mainstream or remotely popular they’ll receive unnecessary hate if pushed in the media just enough for people to get annoyed at its presence.

Nah, atleast the fad chasing in AAA games lasted more than 5 months and had budgets larger than 2 weeks of allowance and some dryer lint.

Nah, atleast the fad chasing in AAA games lasted more than 5 months and had budgets larger than 2 weeks of allowance and some dryer lint.

@PrincessScotchtape I couldn't agree more. Indie games are slowly becoming mainstream themselves

@PrincessScotchtape I couldn't agree more. Indie games are slowly becoming mainstream themselves

I cannot lie at first Indie games were fucking fire, but now it's 50/50. 50% being decent, well made games with ideas that have been tried before, but is a nice refresher. The other 50% utter trash, unoriginal and/or (indies) from AAA developers that are usually just poorly made games.

Indie games were good, but 2010-2013 is over and it's unrecognizable from AAA games. You occasionally find that needle in the haystack.

@PuttPuttTheTruck I remember adding it to my Steam wishlist back at 2016 and every year it get delayed. I was worried it was in development hell . Man , the music ,story and gameplay is really good .
if you are a Hotline Miami fan . you will love it .

Glad more people knows about it c:

@PuttPuttTheTruck I remember adding it to my Steam wishlist back at 2016 and every year it get delayed. I was worried it was in development hell . Man , the music ,story and gameplay is really good .
if you are a Hotline Miami fan . you will love it .

Glad more people knows about it c:

@CronoSpiderman ps4 and bloodborne are good but his is ironic right?

@CronoSpiderman ps4 and bloodborne are good but his is ironic right?

@Crono eh I like both for different moods

@Crono eh I like both for different moods

And even then you get stinkers like Hunt down the Freeman or ET Armies I like indie games are pretty decent

And even then you get stinkers like Hunt down the Freeman or ET Armies I like indie games are pretty decent

Yea but games like doom and titanfall 2 are amazing

Yea but games like doom and titanfall 2 are amazing

Video Game are going down because of shitty greed practices and no unions

Video Game are going down because of shitty greed practices and no unions

Right? Feels like indie developers are the only ones who care about making a fun and enjoyable videogame instead of a money printing machine

Right? Feels like indie developers are the only ones who care about making a fun and enjoyable videogame instead of a money printing machine

Check out Fancade for indie game creation game for Android

Check out Fancade for indie game creation game for Android

I really do think that Indie games carry the torch of a developers trying to achieve an artistic desire with the hopes that there will be success and that any flaws in the game will not only be forgiven but modded by a player base that appreciates that the game exists period.

I really do think that Indie games carry the torch of a developers trying to achieve an artistic desire with the hopes that there will be success and that any flaws in the game will not only be forgiven but modded by a player base that appreciates that the game exists period.

@Sam Squids reject modernity<br>Return to newgrounds flash games

@Sam Squids reject modernity
Return to newgrounds flash games

Honestly, I'd agree with you, but a lot of indie games I find seem to copy each other (as in pixel graphics, qWeRkY hUmOr, etc)

Honestly, I'd agree with you, but a lot of indie games I find seem to copy each other (as in pixel graphics, qWeRkY hUmOr, etc)

@Crono Binding of Isaac, The BitTrip series, Brawlhalla, Among Us, Caveblazers, Clustertruck, Cuphead, Dead Cells,  Don't Starve, Downwell, Duck Game, Enter The Gungeon, Hollow Knight, Jump King, Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes, The Messenger, Noita, Overcooked, Peggle, Plague Inc., Plants vs Zombies, Super Meat Boy, Terraria, MINECRAFT like BRUH. I play all of these titles and I could list more but indie games are treasures in gaming.

I'm so glad that this is the top comment, I was just about to type an extremely long comment about how indie games have nearly none of these problems

I'm so glad that this is the top comment, I was just about to type an extremely long comment about how indie games have nearly none of these problems

lmao the people hating on indie games here dont understand the gaming market at all. sad honestly, but real funny.

lmao the people hating on indie games here dont understand the gaming market at all. sad honestly, but real funny.

Is Minecraft Too Big To An Indie Anymore?

Is Minecraft Too Big To An Indie Anymore?

That and companies that don't follow the way's of EA.

That and companies that don't follow the way's of EA.

If everybody supported indie games, they wouldn' t be indie anymore.

If everybody supported indie games, they wouldn' t be indie anymore.

@poog indie games <b>are</b> the quality of gaming

@poog indie games *are* the quality of gaming

@Crono di- did you just reply to yourself

@Crono di- did you just reply to yourself

@Crono nigga indie isn't a genre defining word. It's just a game that's made by a small studio.

@Crono nigga indie isn't a genre defining word. It's just a game that's made by a small studio.

@Sontles its made by quite a small group so im not sure if that qualifies enough

@Sontles its made by quite a small group so im not sure if that qualifies enough

@ThatOnePersonWhoEatsCheese Good games you mentioned there, though I'm not sure that NMS is an indie game, though I might be mistaken.

@ThatOnePersonWhoEatsCheese Good games you mentioned there, though I'm not sure that NMS is an indie game, though I might be mistaken.

@KLICK KAN KAP The only game I know in that reply is Terraria. So please tell me why exactly terraria is a "trash game" to you? Unless of course you weren't referring to that.

@KLICK KAN KAP The only game I know in that reply is Terraria. So please tell me why exactly terraria is a "trash game" to you? Unless of course you weren't referring to that.

Hotline Miami is one of my favourite games

Hotline Miami is one of my favourite games

Its the same with music. The bigger the indie; the more garbage the AAA.

Its the same with music. The bigger the indie; the more garbage the AAA.

Like rain world (damn rain world is the best)

Like rain world (damn rain world is the best)

@dandre3K I understand.However I don't know what you mean about lag.Hollow Knight seems to run smoothly for me but then again I play it on the Switch.

@dandre3K I understand.However I don't know what you mean about lag.Hollow Knight seems to run smoothly for me but then again I play it on the Switch.

@Interdimensional Deity I like some things about Hollow Knight to me it's a 7/10 if it didn't lag. Like I said It's the pacing, it's annoying to get to what I like about it which is mostly the combat. I think it would be better if wasn't a Metroidvania. It's just my example for indies. If this game is a masterpiece among indies that means most are shovelware.

I'm not hating I respect indies. I want to be a game designer I just have other things to take care of 1st.

@dandre3K So you don’t really like Hollow Knight that much, I respect that.But if that’s the case then what do you think of Hollow Knight:Silksong? I know it isn’t even out yet but just from the trailer and demo alone, assuming that you’ve watched them(if not you should before replying to this), what are your hopes for it? What do you hope it would improve from the original Hollow Knight?

recently i have bought the ps4 version of "risk of rain 2" made by hopoo games. Its a really neat experience, somewhere in novemember they are releasing updates to the game

recently i have bought the ps4 version of "risk of rain 2" made by hopoo games. Its a really neat experience, somewhere in novemember they are releasing updates to the game

foekoe watches emplemon you learn something new everyday

foekoe watches emplemon you learn something new everyday

@Interdimensional Deity Metroid was intended to be a game that teaches without any words. The player may get lost, but not for long. Symphony of the Night was intended to be like Zelda 2 but with more action I guess. Metroidvania is the result of pretending that these 2 games are more than superficially alike.

Getting lost is never a good thing, it's a waste of time. You're not winning, losing, or learning, you're just stuck.

@dandre3K Isn't one of the main traits of a metroidvania to get lost and explore? Also I thought the nonlinearity of Hollow Knight is what made it special.

@dandre3K Isn't one of the main traits of a metroidvania to get lost and explore? Also I thought the nonlinearity of Hollow Knight is what made it special.

@Interdimensional Deity The pacing is trash. I constantly get lost because of the excessive nonlinearity and the stingy map system. Like Salt and Sanctuary (terrible game) I have to google the map to make progress. They both are mostly influenced by Symphony of the Night which also had the same meandering, bloated level design, but at least it had a normal map.

Super Metroid has immaculate level design, the best of any platformer I've ever played. Yet it's a very linear game. Every room serves a purpose in a greater puzzle. Every area is linked together like a mobius strip. It never wastes your time, no fast travel required.

Face it, the indie game industry is just like the indie film industry. Filled with horrible games with creators that refuse to acknowledge that their game is bad. Of course, there are great indie games and they should be proud of what they have accomplished, but for the most part, its just shovelware similar to what was coming out in the early 80's.

Now, if you love indie games and buy them exclusively, cool, you do you. But remember that you're most likely funding the gaming version of Neil Breen.

@dandre3K What do you mean the way the areas are put together isn't cohesive? What about the placement of the areas feels wrong? And how is Metroid better?

@dandre3K What do you mean the way the areas are put together isn't cohesive? What about the placement of the areas feels wrong? And how is Metroid better?

True, atleast they are prioritizing making a good game over producing obscene amounts of profit.

True, atleast they are prioritizing making a good game over producing obscene amounts of profit.

@Interdimensional Deity Hollow Knight has grinding with a combination of hoarding geo and the possibility of losing geo permanently. That along with having to purchase maps makes exploration very tedious. The level design is fine at a micro level, it's the way the areas are put together that bothers me. It's nowhere near as cohesive as in the Metroid series, in fact no so called Metroidvania has an overall level design that matches any Metroid. They all bite Symphony of the Night, which is nothing like Metroid. I haven't tried Ori and the Blind Forest yet, maybe it does it right.

And the game has terrible performance. No 2d platformer should ever lag or stutter.

@dandre3K Not every single game has to innovate or have a twist to it, sometimes they can just take the genre they are based off of and refine it, Hollow Knight is almost pretty much that, and it still stands out better than most AAA games and even indies.<br>Also what unnecessary stuff does Hollow Knight add exactly?  And how is the level design worse?

@dandre3K Not every single game has to innovate or have a twist to it, sometimes they can just take the genre they are based off of and refine it, Hollow Knight is almost pretty much that, and it still stands out better than most AAA games and even indies.
Also what unnecessary stuff does Hollow Knight add exactly?  And how is the level design worse?

@Katz That's understandable actually.There is a lot of junk I ignore on the Steam store and even the Switch E-shop, I believe shovelware is the term to describe them.However, there are still great games out there, even if it seems like a few.

@Katz That's understandable actually.There is a lot of junk I ignore on the Steam store and even the Switch E-shop, I believe shovelware is the term to describe them.However, there are still great games out there, even if it seems like a few.

@Aidan Feliciano What about Hollow Knight, or the new game Hades, or even Subnautica.

@Aidan Feliciano What about Hollow Knight, or the new game Hades, or even Subnautica.

@MrConnman123 Please tell me Hollow Knight isn't one of them.What "cookie-cutter metroidvanias" are there exactly?

@MrConnman123 Please tell me Hollow Knight isn't one of them.What "cookie-cutter metroidvanias" are there exactly?

But shit like YIIK is the content you must avoid

But shit like YIIK is the content you must avoid

@Crono if you want to check it out, look up hollow knight, pretty good game in my opinion.

@Crono if you want to check it out, look up hollow knight, pretty good game in my opinion.

Bio-error 1d10t: User unable to create name.

@Vape Cat  the emp lemon discord, i got kicked from there for no given reason funny enough.

@Vape Cat  the emp lemon discord, i got kicked from there for no given reason funny enough.

@dandre3K <br>Well, not all, but far more unique than whatever the old business men at the top think is the safest low risk investment, that’s for sure

@dandre3K
Well, not all, but far more unique than whatever the old business men at the top think is the safest low risk investment, that’s for sure

@Cannoli Hollow Knight is a prime example of my issue with most indies. Despite cool mechanics it doesn't innovate on the Metroidvania concept, and it adds unnecessary shit to pad the game. It's Symphony of the Night (trash game) with better movement and combat, but worse level design overall. Exploration is made very tedious by having to purchase the maps, and it bites Dark Souls to no benefit like every other super unique indie made after 2009. Super Metroid and Metroid Fusion are still better.

@Real Human bean "they're all incredibly unique" big cap

@Real Human bean "they're all incredibly unique" big cap

the only issue is over time indie games have fallin in to the same issue that "AAA" game have but they get a pass for not being a big company

the only issue is over time indie games have fallin in to the same issue that "AAA" game have but they get a pass for not being a big company

Indie titles also have a lot of garbage.

Indie titles also have a lot of garbage.

Damn straight, check out Deep Rock Galactic. It's about to get a huge update with new mission types soon!

Damn straight, check out Deep Rock Galactic. It's about to get a huge update with new mission types soon!

No, look at Alex Holokwa. Even Indie games are on a downward spiral. The entire medium is in a downward spiral.

No, look at Alex Holokwa. Even Indie games are on a downward spiral. The entire medium is in a downward spiral.

I tapped on this video when this comment had 666 likes... Too bad people don’t let that stick.

I tapped on this video when this comment had 666 likes... Too bad people don’t let that stick.

As if there's no fatigue and over-saturation with indie games.

As if there's no fatigue and over-saturation with indie games.

Play lifeweb dwarf fortress 7 days to die cataclysm dark days ahead, noita

Play lifeweb dwarf fortress 7 days to die cataclysm dark days ahead, noita

@Bane Of course I'm exaggerating  but the indie game scene just leaves me cold.

@Bane Of course I'm exaggerating  but the indie game scene just leaves me cold.

Most indie games are garbage just like AAA games. The super high quality ones that you always see people talking about like Hollow Knight or Undertale are the gems in a sea of shit. It’s easy to find those when word of mouth spreads so fast but if you search the steam store there’s tons of garbage.

Most indie games are garbage just like AAA games. The super high quality ones that you always see people talking about like Hollow Knight or Undertale are the gems in a sea of shit. It’s easy to find those when word of mouth spreads so fast but if you search the steam store there’s tons of garbage.

@Jamie
No they don’t, what games do you even know bro?
If anything they’re all incredibly unique because they allow for experimentation and risk.

@Jamie
No they don’t, what games do you even know bro?
If anything they’re all incredibly unique because they allow for experimentation and risk.

Unless indie devs business relationships becomes incestuous and anti-competitive. And cue the accusations of being a neo-nazi and misogynist.

Unless indie devs business relationships becomes incestuous and anti-competitive. And cue the accusations of being a neo-nazi and misogynist.

No you supports games. If you just support indie games than they’ll all start to grow until they become the new triple A’s to which the new indies show up and people repeat. Stop mindlessly dumping on games but hypocritically supporting indie which are not as good as triple A’s

No you supports games. If you just support indie games than they’ll all start to grow until they become the new triple A’s to which the new indies show up and people repeat. Stop mindlessly dumping on games but hypocritically supporting indie which are not as good as triple A’s

@Bane I have never seen a good indie game. Like i said, video games just suck in general, just my opinion though.

@Bane I have never seen a good indie game. Like i said, video games just suck in general, just my opinion though.

I guess in the end, you should support indie games, but not to a level of "Indie rules, AAA drools".

I guess in the end, you should support indie games, but not to a level of "Indie rules, AAA drools".

@MrConnman123 Do you think that every AAA game is a sportsball game or a first person shooter? Those are equally silly statements.

@MrConnman123 Do you think that every AAA game is a sportsball game or a first person shooter? Those are equally silly statements.

Hollow knight is still one of my favorite games to this day

Hollow knight is still one of my favorite games to this day

Oh boy I sure do love cookie-cutter metroidvanias with the same exact artstyle, indie games truly are the future.

Oh boy I sure do love cookie-cutter metroidvanias with the same exact artstyle, indie games truly are the future.

You should play night in the woods. It’s my favorite indie game ever.

You should play night in the woods. It’s my favorite indie game ever.

@Aidan Feliciano Quick bucks? Making an indie game is an incredibly risky idea financially - it's months of your life spent on making something that also has no marketing or technical support other than you, and no brand or IP to bank on. Someone could make a Pokemon-esque game better than Pokemon SwSh, but it doesn't have the Pokemon label on it, so fewer sales. I'm pretty sure that if someone has the skills to make an indie game they could find another less-risky way to make money.

I have a love for indie games not micro transactions

I have a love for indie games not micro transactions

IMO, indie games also started sucking balls. Most are pretentious rogue lites these days. Few like terraria and stardew valley are worth the time.

IMO, indie games also started sucking balls. Most are pretentious rogue lites these days. Few like terraria and stardew valley are worth the time.

@Crono hollow knight? shovel knight? no mans sky? dead cells?

@Crono hollow knight? shovel knight? no mans sky? dead cells?

A majority of the indie games made suck ass and they're only their to make quick bucks. Video games just suck in general and im quitting gaming.

A majority of the indie games made suck ass and they're only their to make quick bucks. Video games just suck in general and im quitting gaming.

Xbox ditched their beautiful xbox 360 indie game service which ended up killing the desire for people to play indie games on that platform.

Xbox ditched their beautiful xbox 360 indie game service which ended up killing the desire for people to play indie games on that platform.

@Crono if it weren't for Indie games we wouldnt have games such as Fnaf,Octodad Meatboy and even Minecraft! Its not worth defend companies that have games filled with microtransactions and bugs.

@Crono if it weren't for Indie games we wouldnt have games such as Fnaf,Octodad Meatboy and even Minecraft! Its not worth defend companies that have games filled with microtransactions and bugs.

Except no cause more and more indie games are becoming AAA aka not special imo

Except no cause more and more indie games are becoming AAA aka not special imo

Unfortunately, even indie games can fall into this catagory. You either die a Scott Cawthon or Eric Barone, or you live long enough to see yourself become a YanDev or Yiik dev.

Unfortunately, even indie games can fall into this catagory. You either die a Scott Cawthon or Eric Barone, or you live long enough to see yourself become a YanDev or Yiik dev.

I probably would have quit video games if it wasnt for the indie stuff being produced, which as far as gameplay goes, shits all over 99.9% of the 'AAA' stuff.

I probably would have quit video games if it wasnt for the indie stuff being produced, which as far as gameplay goes, shits all over 99.9% of the 'AAA' stuff.

@Foekoe Until they become sex offenders looking to push an agenda.

@Foekoe Until they become sex offenders looking to push an agenda.

Jason Witch Fan Account yeah that’s true lol.

Jason Witch Fan Account yeah that’s true lol.

Crono There are still good indie games out there, such as Enter the Gungeon and Hollow Knight

Crono There are still good indie games out there, such as Enter the Gungeon and Hollow Knight

I know you like Hollow knight
. try Katana ZERO then . I am sure you will like it .

I know you like Hollow knight
. try Katana ZERO then . I am sure you will like it .

I can see why most indie games are financial failures. Most of them are boring except Cuphead 🤭

Dark Souls is superior

I can see why most indie games are financial failures. Most of them are boring except Cuphead 🤭

Dark Souls is superior

Eh....

Most indie games are boring and too short. Not as good as Spiderman PS4 or Bloodborne.

Eh....

Most indie games are boring and too short. Not as good as Spiderman PS4 or Bloodborne.

Indie titles are the future of quality gaming

Indie titles are the future of quality gaming


These are all good points, though I constantly thought about Josh Strife Hayes's comment on people criticizing new MMOs for not being as good: The games overall haven't gotten worse; it's your lifestyle that has changed.
Nostalgia is powerful, sometimes to our own detriment. Desiring to have it back leads to going back towards the original games, no matter how bad they themselves are or how much of a pain they are to play in a modern era. It's also why we criticize games for "not being good enough" when they do what they can in their category.
As good as the old moment is, there is a need to move on. There are plenty of indies or other studios out there, and some bigger companies want to explore on what they can accomplish or learn--take risks. If they're criticized for "not being big enough" just for not exceeding what was advertised, you will not get your "big enough" game.

A majority of this was still my own wording, including nostalgia.

these are all good points, but im going to parrot what another youtuber said because i cant think for myself


When winning is the only thing that matters, the experience starts to quickly unravel when you inevitably lose.<br>The more serious the focus, the less enjoyment exists.

When winning is the only thing that matters, the experience starts to quickly unravel when you inevitably lose.
The more serious the focus, the less enjoyment exists.


I remember when I first got my Wii u, my first foray into the world of multiplayer, looking to capture that same shimmer from local multiplayer due to friends and family not wanting to play. It was honestly great at first, playing minecraft, racing in mario kart 8, and battling in smash, but the further I got, the more I branched out, the less fun I had. Lobbies filled up with people just looking to get a good reaction for their satirical needs, and finding real quality friends was so hard, I'm stuck with the few friends I have now on xbox. People are so cold, they can't even stop to think to actually open themselves up to someone new.<br>Edit: I hate eSports with a burning passion. Turning a fun video game into something simply to be mastered and used for money is sickening, I know most of these people in the competitive scene are just looking to make a quick buck by sitting on their ass and playing overwatch

I remember when I first got my Wii u, my first foray into the world of multiplayer, looking to capture that same shimmer from local multiplayer due to friends and family not wanting to play. It was honestly great at first, playing minecraft, racing in mario kart 8, and battling in smash, but the further I got, the more I branched out, the less fun I had. Lobbies filled up with people just looking to get a good reaction for their satirical needs, and finding real quality friends was so hard, I'm stuck with the few friends I have now on xbox. People are so cold, they can't even stop to think to actually open themselves up to someone new.
Edit: I hate eSports with a burning passion. Turning a fun video game into something simply to be mastered and used for money is sickening, I know most of these people in the competitive scene are just looking to make a quick buck by sitting on their ass and playing overwatch


Games are are as good as they were back in the early 2000s IMO, but it just that there is a lot more choice around what game you play and how involved you get in a game.

There are literally hundreds of games that you could sink thousands of hours into from online fps to the many open world survival games on steam.

The gaming industry has changed and the quest for many developers is to make the next GTA Online. However, if go on steam there is also a thriving community of smaller developers making many interesting games.

@Matanui idk companies have botched games/hardware forever in all honesty. Sega has an infamous track record of horrible releases all the way to the 32x and the Saturn and sonic 06 is a meme for how much of a bugfest it is. Golden company Nintendo themselves made the abominable virtual boy and flopped with the wii u. I do think most gamers just arent looking hard enough/havent played the classics. AAA devs are producing more shovelware than ever but if Ubisoft can consistently move a lot of units of assassins creed i dont see why they wouldnt, you just got realize AAA games are garbage except nintendo/FromSoft. Furthermore gamers want to complain ab being nickel and dimed for DLC and battle passes but with inflation games are cheaper than they were in the 90s and most indie games are less than the industry standard $60. Scalpers taking the supply of ps5s, switches and graphics cards is a bigger problem than a lack of good games.

There are also more and more botched releases on games and remasters then ever before. Sonic Colors ultimate! The fuck is this?


Your "Everyone's a critic" section can easily be applied to movies.

It can also easily be applied to my sex life.

@4nt Agree with all this but I’m wondering if that you stand by that Mauler comment one year later lol

I feel like movies are tough. You can tell the same story a million times with a video game genre but plenty of those feel unique and special. You watch like 20 zombie movies tho and it’s like “fuck dude we get it you saw the other 19 zombie movies too, I get it this is you’re slightly different take on the zombie apocalypse”. So with that you can watch just a trailer or hear reviews of movies and form a pretty solid critical take of it without having experienced it in full. Whereas plenty of games will happily surprise you every now and then even if you’re going into it expecting it to be bad

It's worse for restaurants because they might will go out of business because of yelp

@Paris Knight his old ones are classic but generally on the internet people find him cringey nowadays

@Omnipotent 8383 am I the only one who still kinda likes his videos? His old ones anyways?

@4nt That's true. You finally deconstruct the word "masterpiece" by dissecting how and why we love anything so much. Most people tried to push themselves too hard to reach the level of "perfection" but whatever the reality ensues, they hindered. We maybe are not perfect, but we can be perfect by default. Even for a video game, it doesn't matter how poor or realistic the graphics are as long as the gameplay stayed relevant and successful.

Movie industry at least 3 times as old and better regulated to an extent

Really this whole video can kind of apply to any piece of media in the last decade

Make me think of the South Park episode with the yelp reviewers

It can probably apply to just about anything

And especially music, which in my opinion is the most subjective form of art

@z NightOwl z technically it can apply to everything

I feel there is more meat to chew on in critiques than praises.
When you point to a mechanic, the situations that arise from it, and lay out why it's bad... that's a valid argument.
Sure there's people who bash on it for flimsy or poorly thought out reasons, but it's a double edged sword, you can critique their critique.
When praising, you can make similar arguments, but I've often see people just saying "this is good" which isn't very engaging.

I rarely see REAL professional movie critics online (ie: critics that actually live up to their namesake in terms of their quality as critics), and the same goes for video game critics. MauLer is currently my gold standard as far as critics go. Another is probably Liam Triforce.

But yeah, there's no need to really get hung up whenever a game isn't an absolute masterpiece. Part of loving something is understanding and coming to terms with its flaws, and how those flaws define the strengths of that thing. Like Emp said, not every game can be a masterpiece, and its because of that why games that are often deemed as "masterpieces" stand out as much as they do because they're more than just exceptional. Obviously I want and expect better from the developers i buy games from (even if their previous games were a success), but normally my rule of thumb is "if i had fun playing the game, then my purchase was worthwhile and the game was a success."

"I'm the Nostalgia Critic I remember it so you don't have to!"


2022 has actually been really promising with Elden Ring, Tunic, Lego Star Wars and Kirby and The Forgotten Land. It's been pretty good.

I even thought Pokémon Legends Arceus was fun and a step in the right direction for the series despite it's shortcomings


I played Super Monkey Ball 2 almost every single day when I was around 6 or 7, and even though I got stuck for weeks on one level at a time I would keep going back because the simplicity and appeal of it gave younger me an incentive to play it more<br>now the series is awful and you have to pay $30 for a half-assed conglomeration of the first two games

I played Super Monkey Ball 2 almost every single day when I was around 6 or 7, and even though I got stuck for weeks on one level at a time I would keep going back because the simplicity and appeal of it gave younger me an incentive to play it more
now the series is awful and you have to pay $30 for a half-assed conglomeration of the first two games


5:53 The nostalgia from Burnout 3 hits as hard as a hotrod in time trial mode.


I have that trinitron in my basement right now! <br>Also, yeah this is a great video. It's something I've realized for a long time, and I think the rise of the internet is to blame. Before the internet was commonplace, games were great because the devs would take risks in an attempt to make something amazing, rather than fear all the backlash and ridicule from people these days and just copy paste the last game they made (like you said in the video). Some people just don't know how good a game can be, kinda like how some people don't know how good they can feel due to the food that they put in their own bodies.

I have that trinitron in my basement right now!
Also, yeah this is a great video. It's something I've realized for a long time, and I think the rise of the internet is to blame. Before the internet was commonplace, games were great because the devs would take risks in an attempt to make something amazing, rather than fear all the backlash and ridicule from people these days and just copy paste the last game they made (like you said in the video). Some people just don't know how good a game can be, kinda like how some people don't know how good they can feel due to the food that they put in their own bodies.


Hopefully with the increased advanced development of game engines more developers will be able to have the tools to make good games, more quickly and with less hiccups


Ah yes Midnight Club 3, I remember going to my dad's house and playing on a console older than me and having great memories going fast. Now games today look better, but it's hard to find better games that give you the entire game without stupid DLCs


I think that having greater limitations excluding time force a game developer to work harder to meet those limitations, and it shows of in the games. now that we don't have many limitations anymore, general creativeness has mostly gone down the drain. Its not that there aren't good games, or games that aren't creative, its just that for the most part, a lack of limitations has led to games that don't show as much effort put into them compared to a game from years ago.


I think this video perfectly explains why I’ve sort of moved more towards indie games. That and a lack of time, I just don’t play many games anymore, but when I find a good one, it’s a really enjoyable experience.


God I just can't say the word "Gamer" unironically

That's good.<br>We are players "gamers" is just EA way of triggering you to buy in 2009.

That's good.
We are players "gamers" is just EA way of triggering you to buy in 2009.

Me neither. I'm in my 30s and I play a lot of games. I can't say it without thinking that I sound ridiculous.

It's been turned into am extremely loaded word

It's a big wig marketing term, and it has been for 15 years to get nerds to buy all their products.

In 2021, the term "Gamer" means you play competitive multiplayer FPSs or ARPG. I think it implies competition now in a way it never had before.

Hello my fellow epic Fortnite Among Us gamer. Better not act sus!

The term shouldn't even exist to begin with. There are just people who play video games. But yknow, tribe mentality and all that

@deadfr0g Well said, fascinating read. I agree 100%. And thank you. :)

This is honestly actually a pretty troublesome issue for hobbyist, academic, and industry discourse alike.  “Gamer” has so many specific connotations/implications/expectations attached to it nowadays, but “video games player” doesn’t exactly roll off the tongue.

This is not simply a matter of cultural baggage; it’s a matter of communication.  So many people—the majority of people, even—expect that you mean a surprisingly specific persona when you invoke the term “gamer.”  It immediately conjures up a very specific type of person in their mind.

Now, far be it from me to say that everyone else is using the word wrong; this is how language evolves!  HOWEVER, this means that we no longer have a convenient, general-purpose term to describe “anyone who plays video games with some regularity.”

Like, for example: my dear grandma is a gamer, but she’s not a GAMER.  Do you see what I mean here?

This difference in intended meaning is so profound that—depending on which way the word is interpreted—it can have has a completely transformative effect on any statement in which it is used.  People who always interpret it one way are going to have a philosophy-level difference in paradigm about what “gaming” even is from people who always interpret it the other way.  Or... ANother way??  How many different ways DOES it get interpreted?!

I imagine that anyone who is involved or deeply interested in the design and/or business of video games probably runs into this source of confusion on a very regular basis... knowingly or unknowingly.  If they always notice it, it’s probably frustrating.  If they don’t realize that it’s happening, it’s probably really frustrating.  Hahaha.

Miscommunication is the most surefire way to make sure that project team members are not on the same page as each other, as well as instill false expectations in other people that are absolutely not going to be met.  Having and using terminology that means the same thing to everyone involved helps massively to reduce miscommunication.

No proofread YOLO

This is honestly actually a pretty troublesome issue for hobbyist, academic, and industry discourse alike.  “Gamer” has so many specific connotations/implications/expectations attached to it nowadays, but “video games player” doesn’t exactly roll off the tongue.

This is not simply a matter of cultural baggage; it’s a matter of _communication._  So many people—the majority of people, even—expect that you mean a surprisingly specific persona when you invoke the term “gamer.”  It immediately conjures up a very specific type of person in their mind.

Now, far be it from me to say that everyone else is using the word wrong; this is how language evolves!  HOWEVER, this means that we no longer have a convenient, general-purpose term to describe “anyone who plays video games with some regularity.”

Like, for example: my dear grandma is a gamer, but she’s not a GAMER.  Do you see what I mean here?

This difference in intended meaning is so profound that—depending on which way the word is interpreted—it can have has a completely transformative effect on any statement in which it is used.  People who always interpret it one way are going to have a philosophy-level difference in paradigm about what “gaming” even is from people who always interpret it the other way.  Or... ANother way??  How many different ways DOES it get interpreted?!

I imagine that anyone who is involved or deeply interested in the design and/or business of video games probably runs into this source of confusion on a very regular basis... knowingly or unknowingly.  If they always notice it, it’s probably frustrating.  If they don’t realize that it’s happening, it’s probably _really_ frustrating.  Hahaha.

Miscommunication is the most surefire way to make sure that project team members are not on the same page as each other, as well as instill false expectations in other people that are absolutely not going to be met.  Having and using terminology that means the same thing to everyone involved helps massively to reduce miscommunication.

No proofread YOLO

@Aevvah_Flxwer well non gamers started using it

Its our N word, we say it but others cant.

Agreed its unreal how fucking ironic it is.

Yea when i say it i say it like "GAmer" but in an anoyying voice

@Retrosta Same. The word makes me cringe now. If I heard that word a decade ago however I'd be proud to fit in with at least some kind of group, being a wallflower basically.

Pathetic and cringy but I just had to say it. (Edit: removed extra asterisk -_-)

@Retrosta Same. The word makes me cringe now. If I heard that word a decade ago however I'd be proud to fit in with at least some kind of group, being a wallflower basically.

*Pathetic and cringy but I just had to say it.* (Edit: removed extra asterisk -_-)

It's always been a simple definition to me that means someone who plays games. I still find the cultural aspects baffling.


A game known as Weird West has been a diamond in the rough, a very unexpected and fun experience. It is not often one clocks 6 hours into an unfamiliar IP these days


Great content like how everyone feels getting older. Life's mysteries and wonders are overshadowed by it's bs and sad realities. Maybe it's just the result of our modern way of life


"We live in an age of impossible expectations. Everyone wants the best solution in the least ammount of time, and anything less than that is considered a failure"

EmpLemon. 2020.


I feel like a good example of a unique game truly shining is The Stanley Parable. It was something completely on it's own, different from the rest, yet still amazing.


Something that I think is important to note here is that gamers themselves have gotten older. Escapism is to a kid like what water is to a fish. Now it's something to just keep us happy as we work through our lives. Of course we'd hold it to a higher standard we can project our discontent on to.

@ThotSlayer just like the video said, people can't talk about games without suddenly getting political and shit

I'm sure that in 10 years, there will be youtube videos about how FortNite was the pinnacle of gaming, and nothing has ever come close to it since its release. This video is just pure doomer nostalgia goggles in action.

@ChainsawChuck13 passion. Games used to be made by nerds, FOR nerds. Now they're made by corporate committees in offices who don't have the faintest idea what actual gamers want.

Except that if you go back and play a game from that time period  that you've never played before, it will probably be fun, more so than a modern equivalent.  It's not just nostalgia.  Something is genuinely missing from the newer games.

@Danolix I wonder why people would promote anarchism in any form, honestly.

Make America communist to starve and completely make people hate the idea of going out of the way to learn to get better jobs which require higher intelligence and effort since everyone will get the same.

I'm not saying capitalism is perfect, definitely has some major flaws, but sure is better than communism.

Also tell me if I'm wrong but, last time I checked, it has never been scientifically proven that video games affect the brain.

Make America communist to starve and completely make people hate the idea of going out of the way to learn to get better jobs which require higher intelligence and effort since everyone will get the same.

I'm not saying capitalism is perfect, definitely has some *major* flaws, but sure is better than communism.

Also tell me if I'm wrong but, last time I checked, it has never been scientifically proven that video games affect the brain.

and thats why this generatsion is rioting....capitialist realisem


"As much as Gamers complain and ridicule the games they play, we all know they're going to buy the next one anyway. Even though it seems that everyone hates games these days, people wouldn't get so frustrated that they love video games deep down."
        -Emplemon's Video Games Downward Spiral

_"As much as Gamers complain and ridicule the games they play, we all know they're going to buy the next one anyway. Even though it seems that everyone hates games these days, people wouldn't get so frustrated that they love video games deep down."_
        -Emplemon's Video Games Downward Spiral


This is exactly why I still own an Xbox 360 and play things like fallout new Vegas on it, like Reggie said "if it's not  fun, why bother?"