Imagine remembering your wedding day every year as the day your dad killed a guy for playing loud music.

Imagine remembering your wedding day every year as the day your dad killed a guy for playing loud music.

@Autonomous Thought none of these terrible, pointless deaths and ludicrous confrontational  situations would happen if people didn't have rampant access to guns.
Why does this not get said more often?
 It seems really clear cut to me, and to millions of people in my country, where these kinds of murders very, very rarely occur.
In addition, given the possible grey areas, of this case happened here, the culprit would be jailed for some years, in recognition of his crime and massive lack of judgement, but not for the rest of his life.

@Autonomous Thought cos he's literally a racist ?? it was def motivated on race

@Autonomous Thought cos he's literally a racist ?? it was def motivated on race

@Autonomous Thought rewatch the video please

@Autonomous Thought rewatch the video please

@Pluto101 were those emojis your attempt at empathy? Jesus Christ.

@Pluto101 were those emojis your attempt at empathy? Jesus Christ.

@Autonomous Thought they cant be wrong when you have proven anything. And its the comments not an essay boomer. I dont have to type an apostrophe if I dont have to. Youll understand what I mean just fine. Just use that declining brain of yours

@Autonomous Thought they cant be wrong when you have proven anything. And its the comments not an essay boomer. I dont have to type an apostrophe if I dont have to. Youll understand what I mean just fine. Just use that declining brain of yours

Someone's dad who's a cop have killed a victim who reached for his phone. They'll remember that too but in contrary, the dad is not in jail.

Someone's dad who's a cop have killed a victim who reached for his phone. They'll remember that too but in contrary, the dad is not in jail.

@Autonomous Thought this comment right here officer

@Autonomous Thought this comment right here officer

@Autonomous Thought Well I see someone didn't get beaten enough as a child.

@Autonomous Thought Well I see someone didn't get beaten enough as a child.

@Autonomous Thought late but<br>The video itself stated he was just twisting the story to make himself look like the victim/to make it seem like he was just acting out of self defense

@Autonomous Thought late but
The video itself stated he was just twisting the story to make himself look like the victim/to make it seem like he was just acting out of self defense

@Taylor Fausett 🤦🏽🤦🏽🤦🏽🤦🏽🤦🏽🤦🏽🤦🏽🤦🏽

@Taylor Fausett 🤦🏽🤦🏽🤦🏽🤦🏽🤦🏽🤦🏽🤦🏽🤦🏽

his son is probably racist as well ebcause that's how he was raised and thinks of his father as the victim. Same for the girlfriend, idk why people feel sorry for her.

his son is probably racist as well ebcause that's how he was raised and thinks of his father as the victim. Same for the girlfriend, idk why people feel sorry for her.

@Cecil Yi
"LeArN rEsSPeCt"
It's public, who cares? There wasn't a sign that said "no loud music allowed" 😂

@Cecil Yi
"LeArN rEsSPeCt"
It's public, who cares? There wasn't a sign that said "no loud music allowed" 😂

@christine robinson - I would have to argue that no, she is obviously not easily manipulated.

@christine robinson - I would have to argue that no, she is obviously not easily manipulated.

@Autonomous Thought it was proven they didn't have a gun though because no gun was ever found in the vehicle or on the gas station premises. It was also proven that they never threatened to kill him from 3rd party witness testimony. Lay off the crack bud.

@Autonomous Thought it was proven they didn't have a gun though because no gun was ever found in the vehicle or on the gas station premises. It was also proven that they never threatened to kill him from 3rd party witness testimony. Lay off the crack bud.

You're not capitalizing words correctly in your responses.

You're not capitalizing words correctly in your responses.

i guess the male equivilant to a karen should be a mike now

i guess the male equivilant to a karen should be a mike now

@Autonomous Thought you keep saying evidence and logic but you’re literally ignoring the evidence and the logic  😶

@Autonomous Thought you keep saying evidence and logic but you’re literally ignoring the evidence and the logic  😶

@Autonomous Thought You say Its not proven even tho they said that there wasnt even a fucking water gun in the car. Everything in this case was confirmed.

@Autonomous Thought You say Its not proven even tho they said that there wasnt even a fucking water gun in the car. Everything in this case was confirmed.

@Autonomous Thought criiiiiiinge. Never met a person who extoles their own logical skills and intelligence who was anything but a bag of hot air, sniffing their own farts

@Autonomous Thought criiiiiiinge. Never met a person who extoles their own logical skills and intelligence who was anything but a bag of hot air, sniffing their own farts

Must certainly make for an awkward anniversary…..

Must certainly make for an awkward anniversary…..

@Autonomous Thought lololol I can't believe that you actually believe that the police would lie to PROTECT a black man

@Autonomous Thought lololol I can't believe that you actually believe that the police would lie to PROTECT a black man

Literally just commenting to fuck up the 420. Also lmao tru

Literally just commenting to fuck up the 420. Also lmao tru

His dad was a racist. He murdered a kid.

His dad was a racist. He murdered a kid.

@Autonomous Thought Saying rap is "largely thug music" in and of itself is a racist generalization, so there's that.

@Autonomous Thought Saying rap is "largely thug music" in and of itself is a racist generalization, so there's that.

@2pacalypse:  THANK YOU for your common sense statement and kudos to whoever raised you!

@2pacalypse:  THANK YOU for your common sense statement and kudos to whoever raised you!

@Autonomous Thought found him guys!! I found the racist 👆👆

@Autonomous Thought found him guys!! I found the racist 👆👆

If they would of kept the music off for another 60 seconds all that could of been prevented but noooo someone had to be a tough guy and turn the music up again.

If they would of kept the music off for another 60 seconds all that could of been prevented but noooo someone had to be a tough guy and turn the music up again.

@Bill Wilson Your response tells me that you're being ignorant. My reply is clear. I read the whole thread and watched the video. You just don't have a proper answer for my question, which is why you're avoiding it.

@Bill Wilson Your response tells me that you're being ignorant. My reply is clear. I read the whole thread and watched the video. You just don't have a proper answer for my question, which is why you're avoiding it.

@Speccy SquareGoLike: Your question tells me you haven't read the entire thread.  The answer lies within, my friend.

@Speccy SquareGoLike: Your question tells me you haven't read the entire thread.  The answer lies within, my friend.

@Autonomous Thought "as someone really good at logic" "derive serotonin response without merit" lol I wish I was as smart as you think you are. Do me a favor and explain what you were trying to get across with that "derive serotonin response without merit" line because A) I think you're confusing 5-hydroxytryptamine (5ht/serotonin) with dopamine and B) "derive serotonin response" is not a thing. So ironic that Mr corrects-grammar would use a completely nonsensical string of words in attempt to seem smarter.

@Autonomous Thought "as someone really good at logic" "derive serotonin response without merit" lol I wish I was as smart as you think you are. Do me a favor and explain what you were trying to get across with that "derive serotonin response without merit" line because A) I think you're confusing 5-hydroxytryptamine (5ht/serotonin) with dopamine and B) "derive serotonin response" is not a thing. So ironic that Mr corrects-grammar would use a completely nonsensical string of words in attempt to seem smarter.

@Evy Courtney What was logical about anything they said? Just stop watching Ben Shapiro, it'll do you some good. I promise 🖤

@Evy Courtney What was logical about anything they said? Just stop watching Ben Shapiro, it'll do you some good. I promise 🖤

@Bill Wilson But why? They weren't gonna be there for long and the dude is an adult. He should've been able to deal with it for a few minutes

@Bill Wilson But why? They weren't gonna be there for long and the dude is an adult. He should've been able to deal with it for a few minutes

@mainlymusicman They were teenagers. Not thugs, ffs

@mainlymusicman They were teenagers. Not thugs, ffs

@Kyle Marshall I'm not Muslim, but that definitely does not happen in Islam. Get your sh*t straight, my guy

@Kyle Marshall I'm not Muslim, but that definitely does not happen in Islam. Get your sh*t straight, my guy

@Anil But she's his daughter. Obviously, she would hold a biased opinion of him

@Anil But she's his daughter. Obviously, she would hold a biased opinion of him

@Autonomous Thought But you understood what the other person was saying. You're being a hypocrite, because you were the person to bring up grammar in the first place.

@Autonomous Thought But you understood what the other person was saying. You're being a hypocrite, because you were the person to bring up grammar in the first place.

@Autonomous Thought You are what a living fedora would speak like

@Autonomous Thought You are what a living fedora would speak like

@Autonomous Thought My dude defending a racist murderer by ignoring shit presented in the video is not the good look you think it is

@Autonomous Thought My dude defending a racist murderer by ignoring shit presented in the video is not the good look you think it is

@2122 I just want you know that I admire you.

@2122 I just want you know that I admire you.

@Autonomous Thought your racism is showing

@Autonomous Thought your racism is showing

lmao he left his sons wedding early just to go home and walk his dog...he has a terrible relationship with him most likely especially considering he said his dog is his child during the trial and didn't mention once about his actual kid.

lmao he left his sons wedding early just to go home and walk his dog...he has a terrible relationship with him most likely especially considering he said his dog is his child during the trial and didn't mention once about his actual kid.

@Danielle Calderwood The detective said in the video that the guys admitted to saying that they were gonna kill him

@Danielle Calderwood The detective said in the video that the guys admitted to saying that they were gonna kill him

@Autonomous Thought >'You keep using the phrase "irrational and immoral". Why? What makes an argument "immoral"? What is morality to you? You should avoid using such subjective language if you're attempting to make an argument from objectivity. What you've argued so far isn't compelling. There was enough evidence from the interrogation, the witnesses, and the crime scene itself to make a case for the suspect's motive. Rejecting evidence is irrational.'
-questioning openly and providing evidence, making points against your claim

>' there definitely isn't substantial evidence, what are you talking about? and what a completely nonsensical thing to say. what i'm calling immoral is objectively immoral, as long as you subjectively agree that adhering to truth is better than not adhering to truth. you disagree on that subjective premise? you think questioning that subjective premise is actually a substantial argument? are you new to thinking about morality? cuz literally everything else you said to me implies that you agree that adhering to truth is superior to not adhering to truth, although maybe not, because you are pretty bad at it'

-attacks the person, not the points
-doesn't answer the questions or explain themselves, just claims that you're right because you are
-'i am truth'
-ignores evidence suggesting otherwise to their claims

@Autonomous Thought There's no evidence for any of the kids threatening the guy and evidence against both that and them being armed in the first place. There is, however, evidence for an adult man calling music 'thug music' on the basis of fucking nothing but the appearance of teenagers I guess, and evidence for an adult man killing a minor over music. I will agree, the teenager ran his mouth ['you cant tell me what to do'] but given the age and the adult man escalating the situation, this is a minor thing that doesn't warrant this response.

If you want to suggest otherwise please site your sources as your claims make the burden of proof fall on you, I'm simply reciting what's from the video.
Following claims made by you [original comment]:
'he killed him for threatening him [no evidence], not playing loud music, try to keep up with facts and logic and not just your emotions [no evidence, gas lightly]. it's not proven either way that the kid did or didn't have a gun [it's been proven by witnesses from both parties in the video], or that the kid did or didn't threaten to kill him [opposite proven by witnesses in the video], or that the kid did or didn't pretend he had a gun while threatening to kill him. this case is a lot more nuanced than you're portraying and it's immoral for you to attribute more malice than is evident to the accused, just like in your imaginary scenario of events the accused is wrong for falsely attributing malice to the kid, hypocrite'

@Autonomous Thought yikes man.  Think you “ignored” certain parts of the video you didn’t like lol.  Might need to review again, but not add your own filter.

@Autonomous Thought yikes man.  Think you “ignored” certain parts of the video you didn’t like lol.  Might need to review again, but not add your own filter.

@Autonomous Thought yikes. What drugs are you on?

@Autonomous Thought yikes. What drugs are you on?

@Evy Courtney you should rlly get out more

@Evy Courtney you should rlly get out more

@Autonomous Thought They dont get you, Autonomous....Your comments are like a breath of fresh air...

@Autonomous Thought They dont get you, Autonomous....Your comments are like a breath of fresh air...

@sleep on dirt What a very ignorant comment....

@sleep on dirt What a very ignorant comment....

@Danielle Calderwood He didnt defend anyone ...He just keeps an open, and logical mind....

@Danielle Calderwood He didnt defend anyone ...He just keeps an open, and logical mind....

@A CJ Why, ?  Because his ideas are not like those of the masses ?

@A CJ Why, ?  Because his ideas are not like those of the masses ?

@Autonomous Thought great comment and great name

@Autonomous Thought great comment and great name

@Autonomous Thought so wait is your argument still “we don’t know for 100% sure that the kid didn’t have a gun”? As if proving a negative is possible?

@Autonomous Thought so wait is your argument still “we don’t know for 100% sure that the kid didn’t have a gun”? As if proving a negative is possible?

@Autonomous Thought stop watching ben shapiro lol

@Autonomous Thought stop watching ben shapiro lol

@Autonomous Thought ... lol they found a gun? Did they not try to escape? I don’t understand how you can stand up for him when his own fiancé didn’t.

@Autonomous Thought ... lol they found a gun? Did they not try to escape? I don’t understand how you can stand up for him when his own fiancé didn’t.

@Just Another Happy Humanist exactly! now i dont have to comment the same thing lol

@Just Another Happy Humanist exactly! now i dont have to comment the same thing lol

@Autonomous Thought hmm, did u just unironically imply that ur an extremely logical and intelligent person? i was reading into ur comments to possibly agree but thats uh... quite the ego u have.

@Autonomous Thought hmm, did u just unironically imply that ur an extremely logical and intelligent person? i was reading into ur comments to possibly agree but thats uh... quite the ego u have.

@Autonomous Thought wait.. y the fuck would the kids pretend to have a gun?

@Autonomous Thought wait.. y the fuck would the kids pretend to have a gun?

@Autonomous Thought "someone good at logic" 😂😂 yeah sure buddy what are you 12 and watched one Ben Shapiro video?

@Autonomous Thought "someone good at logic" 😂😂 yeah sure buddy what are you 12 and watched one Ben Shapiro video?

@Autonomous Thought Uhm, id respect your talking points more if they weren’t just a regurgitation of other people’s and they showed a semblance of independent analytical thought. I go to the most competitive university in the world, my IQ is high enough 😊

@Autonomous Thought Uhm, id respect your talking points more if they weren’t just a regurgitation of other people’s and they showed a semblance of independent analytical thought. I go to the most competitive university in the world, my IQ is high enough 😊

@Autonomous Thought you’re definitely not thinking autonomously m when you’re parroting phrases like ‘facts and logic’

@Autonomous Thought you’re definitely not thinking autonomously m when you’re parroting phrases like ‘facts and logic’

@broquest warsneeder THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I WAS THINKINGGG except, lahey is more likely to get piss ass drunk and kill a guy over music rather than a flustered randy

@broquest warsneeder THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I WAS THINKINGGG except, lahey is more likely to get piss ass drunk and kill a guy over music rather than a flustered randy

@Filip Raos this is the best destruction comment of all time hands down. Fair play! 👏

@Filip Raos this is the best destruction comment of all time hands down. Fair play! 👏

@Autonomous Thought It is very funny to see how you are getting done in this comment section. Every answer you're getting is against your reasoning precisely because you're wrong and you're analyzing things from a frustated and kind of narcisistic point of view; I would even daré to say immoral. I barely read one of your comments and had to drop it when you were practically implying that you are extremely intelligent and that you are an expert on logic. Believe it or not, it doesn't show at all. And the worst part is that it doesn't matter how many people answer to you with the evidence on this case, you're incapable of accepting that you're wrong and you messed up. Very clever.

Bruh must have been a really quiet wedding that

Bruh must have been a really quiet wedding that

@Kevin Zhu Cute dog, Calvin! Is that a husky? I got a Labrador.

@Kevin Zhu Cute dog, Calvin! Is that a husky? I got a Labrador.

And he had only seen his father three times in the past 15 years!

And he had only seen his father three times in the past 15 years!

@christine robinson Is that why Michael was sentenced to life in prison without parole? The judge and jury found him guilty. He’ll spend the rest of his life in prison.

@christine robinson Is that why Michael was sentenced to life in prison without parole? The judge and jury found him guilty. He’ll spend the rest of his life in prison.

@Autonomous Thought Is that why Michael was sentenced to life in prison without parole? The judge and jury found him guilty. He’ll have to spend the rest of his life in prison.

@Autonomous Thought Is that why Michael was sentenced to life in prison without parole? The judge and jury found him guilty. He’ll have to spend the rest of his life in prison.

@Autonomous Thought Also, to say it isn’t about race clearly means you haven’t looked into the case. Google his letters sent from prison. They all say things like “all whites should arm themselves against the black menace” “I hope the next county picks up  this case because it is predominantly republican and white and they’re pro guns”

@Autonomous Thought Also, to say it isn’t about race clearly means you haven’t looked into the case. Google his letters sent from prison. They all say things like “all whites should arm themselves against the black menace” “I hope the next county picks up  this case because it is predominantly republican and white and they’re pro guns”

@Autonomous Thought heres something that logically refutes what you said, according to the pig on the stand they werent" conversating it was more of a yelling he could hear with his windows up" way to watch the video.

@Autonomous Thought heres something that logically refutes what you said, according to the pig on the stand they werent" conversating it was more of a yelling he could hear with his windows up" way to watch the video.

@Dyno Hrnic The most idiotic excuse was suppression fire to keep their heads down. I cannot believe anyone would use such a unreasonable and idiot statement like that.

@Dyno Hrnic The most idiotic excuse was suppression fire to keep their heads down. I cannot believe anyone would use such a unreasonable and idiot statement like that.

@Autonomous Thought well this is why we have a justice system. They did the work. Brought out the facts. That's kind of how this sort of thing works, you know? Lol. Your whole statement hold no water whatsoever.

@Autonomous Thought well this is why we have a justice system. They did the work. Brought out the facts. That's kind of how this sort of thing works, you know? Lol. Your whole statement hold no water whatsoever.

@Left.Inland I know that cut n paste takes more effort so my apologies. Whenever I see a comment  with no name included and it is highlighted I take it as a post to the group.

You make a big deal out of additional thoughts to comments which is kind of ignorant on your part when you have spelling errors and fragments as sentences.  I will leave it alone now. But if I am an ahole then you are one in the same. Now leave the immaturity alone and post to whoever you want.

@Left.Inland I know that cut n paste takes more effort so my apologies. Whenever I see a comment  with no name included and it is highlighted I take it as a post to the group.

You make a big deal out of additional thoughts to comments which is kind of ignorant on your part when you have spelling errors and fragments as sentences.  I will leave it alone now. But if I am an ahole then you are one in the same. Now leave the immaturity alone and post to whoever you want.

@Alfred Indy I responded to one person about the sons wedding..any reply to the Brian Davis will be at the bottom playa..we were in his thread therefore making any comment a response to the core comment..pretty simple..never directed anything at ppl in the side discussion. Maybe you should pay attention

@Alfred Indy I responded to one person about the sons wedding..any reply to the Brian Davis will be at the bottom playa..we were in his thread therefore making any comment a response to the core comment..pretty simple..never directed anything at ppl in the side discussion. Maybe you should pay attention

@Left.Inland "Damn..all the years I've known about this case  for years and that never even crossed my mind..that would be messed up" <=== You don't even post to the person you are responding to and make it look like you are commenting to the mess at the bottom of the thread. Maybe you should be less vague if you cannot stand people getting off topic.

@Left.Inland "Damn..all the years I've known about this case  for years and that never even crossed my mind..that would be messed up" <=== You don't even post to the person you are responding to and make it look like you are commenting to the mess at the bottom of the thread. Maybe you should be less vague if you cannot stand people getting off topic.

@Left.Inland " I appreciate that..

a real case to look at is the

Christopher Childress shooting by Cortez Waller. Cortez was sleeping with Chris's wife at their job. She quit the job and tried to work it out. When the men ran into each other on the street Chris ran up to Cortez and Cortez shot him..before a glove was placed on him. Cortez Waller was found not guilty. I'll let you look up the case to see why ppl didn't riot."  <=== Not me! The whole reason I responded is because you were too lazy to cut and paste to the original comment you were referring to. I cannot help it you don't take the time to point out who you are responding to.

@Alfred Indy like I daid..I was making reference to the fact that the uproar would be different ...key word..different..if the roles were switched. And there you are in left field reading something that isnt there...<br>Just give up bro..seriously

@Alfred Indy like I daid..I was making reference to the fact that the uproar would be different ...key word..different..if the roles were switched. And there you are in left field reading something that isnt there...
Just give up bro..seriously

@Left.Inland There was no comparison between the case you cited and this case. The fact that the shooter turned himself into the police right away is night and day compared to the Jordan Davis murder case. Also, compare the states which they occurred. Florida was among the most lenient stand your ground states. Unfortunately for Florida - they had stupid people testing the limits of the new law. <br>commenters

@Left.Inland There was no comparison between the case you cited and this case. The fact that the shooter turned himself into the police right away is night and day compared to the Jordan Davis murder case. Also, compare the states which they occurred. Florida was among the most lenient stand your ground states. Unfortunately for Florida - they had stupid people testing the limits of the new law.
commenters

@Left.Inland I read your case and I think that the jury came to the wrong decision, but I have to accept the outcome because you cannot try a person twice for the same crime. However, Michelle Dunn got the correct sentence and lost three appeals. People who conclude that this case was self-defense do not know the meaning of self-defense.

To use this case to justify that there may have been a gun in Jordan Davis's van is idiotic at best. Notice the man in this case who was acquitted turned himself into LE right away.  So the two cases cannot be compared. Only guilty people run!

So your troll set up is a waste of bandwidth! Michelle Dunn is where he should be.

@Left.Inland To state that three appeals courts sided with the district court because they were afraid of riots is just plain stupid. Look at the other court cases which the Supreme Court has sided on whether the people liked the decision or not. The justices are well protected and they do not have to worry about their own safety.

When I hear someone say Michael Dunn was convicted because the system was worried about riots - I realize that the person posting it has not valid debating point to use and is making an excuse up.

@Alfred Indy I appreciate that..
a real case to look at is the
Christopher Childress shooting by Cortez Waller. Cortez was sleeping with Chris's wife at their job. She quit the job and tried to work it out. When the men ran into each other on the street Chris ran up to Cortez and Cortez shot him..before a glove was placed on him. Cortez Waller was found not guilty. I'll let you look up the case to see why ppl didn't riot.

@Alfred Indy I appreciate that..
a real case to look at is the
Christopher Childress shooting by Cortez Waller. Cortez was sleeping with Chris's wife at their job. She quit the job and tried to work it out. When the men ran into each other on the street Chris ran up to Cortez and Cortez shot him..before a glove was placed on him. Cortez Waller was found not guilty. I'll let you look up the case to see why ppl didn't riot.

@Left.Inland Good! This thread is huge and the latest posts have been from nimrod trolls, so I thought that you were commenting on those idiotic remarks. I apologize! I can see you are one of the intelligent posters.

@Left.Inland Good! This thread is huge and the latest posts have been from nimrod trolls, so I thought that you were commenting on those idiotic remarks. I apologize! I can see you are one of the intelligent posters.

@Alfred Indy Your reply has nothing to do with my comment. ..Zero.
My reply was to the fact that Dunn's son will relive this incident every time he celebrates his own wedding anniversary.
Do I believe the teens brandished a weapon..no..
do I think the shooting was justified..no
I'll even take it a step further and say he wouldn't even of asked them to turn the music down had there not been a pistol in his glove box. There..now your comment can have some relevance

@Alfred Indy Your reply has nothing to do with my comment. ..Zero.
My reply was to the fact that Dunn's son will relive this incident every time he celebrates his own wedding anniversary.
Do I believe the teens brandished a weapon..no..
do I think the shooting was justified..no
I'll even take it a step further and say he wouldn't even of asked them to turn the music down had there not been a pistol in his glove box. There..now your comment can have some relevance

@Left.Inland All you should know is that Michael Dunn was rightfully convicted and the appeals courts all agree with his conviction.

@Left.Inland All you should know is that Michael Dunn was rightfully convicted and the appeals courts all agree with his conviction.

Damn..all the years I've known about this case  for years and that never even crossed my mind..that would be messed up

Damn..all the years I've known about this case  for years and that never even crossed my mind..that would be messed up

@Stewie G The fact that Dunn has appealed all the way up to the State Supreme Court and the FACT that no court takes his "threatened with a gun" seriously, is proof enough for any logical person that Dunn was lying.

This they were afraid of riots means that I cannot argue with the true told by the courts.

@Stewie G The fact that Dunn has appealed all the way up to the State Supreme Court and the FACT that no court takes his "threatened with a gun" seriously, is proof enough for any logical person that Dunn was lying.

This they were afraid of riots means that I cannot argue with the true told by the courts.

@Autonomous Thought lmao its insane that you keep talking about "facts and evidence" when none of the evidence or witnesses line up with Dunn's ridiculous story lol.

@Autonomous Thought lmao its insane that you keep talking about "facts and evidence" when none of the evidence or witnesses line up with Dunn's ridiculous story lol.

@Bill Wilson I did! Yes, the teens did act disrespectful. No, the situation did not need to be escalated  - princess!

Before you make remarks about people's manhood - have you listened to Michelle Dunn's voice lately? Can you spell Girlyman?

@Bill Wilson I did! Yes, the teens did act disrespectful. No, the situation did not need to be escalated  - princess!

Before you make remarks about people's manhood - have you listened to Michelle Dunn's voice lately? Can you spell Girlyman?

@Alfred Indy: It's rather difficult to "ignore" loud music.  Read the entire thread, princess.

@Alfred Indy: It's rather difficult to "ignore" loud music.  Read the entire thread, princess.

@Bill Wilson "Just be respectful and turn the music down.  It's really that simple." <=== And if the people with the loud music ignore you (then show some class and), ignore them!

@Bill Wilson "Just be respectful and turn the music down.  It's really that simple." <=== And if the people with the loud music ignore you (then show some class and), ignore them!

@Captain Freedom "If reasonable people like you or me have doubts about his guilt, then Dunn should have been found not guilty."  <=== and we are suppose to put our faith in you and Autonomous thought when Michelle Dunn lost all three appeals. I have a bridge to sell you then.

@Captain Freedom "If reasonable people like you or me have doubts about his guilt, then Dunn should have been found not guilty."  <=== and we are suppose to put our faith in you and Autonomous thought when Michelle Dunn lost all three appeals. I have a bridge to sell you then.

Reading below for Autonomous to be torn down by facts and still be as dense as a brick. Cognitive distancing at its finest.

Reading below for Autonomous to be torn down by facts and still be as dense as a brick. Cognitive distancing at its finest.

@johnb66y "My beliefs are based upon logic and the information so far that has be brought forward If you have any Facts that would logically invalidate my beliefs please put them forward."  <=== Permit cpl owners have to report all shootings to the police a.s.a.p. Of course there is a clause that the shooter is allowed to flee to a safe position BUT, they still have to report the shooting. I will be very generous and give Dunn to retreat to the safety of his Hotel room, but upon his arrival to his room, he had no legal excuse to not report and meet with the police. After that - Michael Dunn was a fleeing felon - period. So there is the proof that Dunn had no self-defense case - the fact that he negated his training and did not report the shooting.

PS: your logic is as good as your spelling, which is nonexistent!

@johnb66y "Third 90 years was absurd there was no premeditation and there was  probable provocation."  <=== There is no length limit on premeditation, so first degree murder was a valid charge since Dunn argued with the teens prior to the shooting.

PS: since you say that Dunn has no record of hatred towards blacks; note, none of the three surviving teens (now young adults) have been arrested for any crimes since they were assaulted by Dunn. That should be noted as well verses your brownnosing of Michelle Dunn.

@johnb66y "Third 90 years was absurd there was no premeditation and there was  probable provocation."  <=== There is no length limit on premeditation, so first degree murder was a valid charge since Dunn argued with the teens prior to the shooting.

PS: since you say that Dunn has no record of hatred towards blacks; note, none of the three surviving teens (now young adults) have been arrested for any crimes since they were assaulted by Dunn. That should be noted as well verses your brownnosing of Michelle Dunn.

@johnb66y "Now that is just my opinion but it is based upon my experience in life and that I know that people are creatures of habit.  Again  this case is important enough that all the facts of both Dunn and these Kids should be thoroughly dug up."  <=== They were four times and a jury and three appeals courts sided with the original judge. Unless Dunn can wait ten years and dig up large sums of money to take it to the United States Supreme Court, Dunn is done!

@johnb66y "Now that is just my opinion but it is based upon my experience in life and that I know that people are creatures of habit.  Again  this case is important enough that all the facts of both Dunn and these Kids should be thoroughly dug up."  <=== They were four times and a jury and three appeals courts sided with the original judge. Unless Dunn can wait ten years and dig up large sums of money to take it to the United States Supreme Court, Dunn is done!

@David Crandall Sounds like the lyrics were too mature for Michael Dunn to handle after alcohol consumption.

@David Crandall Sounds like the lyrics were too mature for Michael Dunn to handle after alcohol consumption.

@Alfred Indy Music has a profound influence on behavior just like movies do.  17 year old kids  should be not be listening to those R-rated lyrics. That why gangster rap is labeled 'parental guidance' for violent lyrics. That parents should not have let their kids listen or buy this music. It's illegal to do so.

@Alfred Indy Music has a profound influence on behavior just like movies do.  17 year old kids  should be not be listening to those R-rated lyrics. That why gangster rap is labeled 'parental guidance' for violent lyrics. That parents should not have let their kids listen or buy this music. It's illegal to do so.

@J H  a smear without the slightest shred of evidence.  your comment is  typical of those who speculate then invent supporting arguments without attempting to ascertain facts

@J H  a smear without the slightest shred of evidence.  your comment is  typical of those who speculate then invent supporting arguments without attempting to ascertain facts

@2122 not that it matters but old auto head was right about the use of its. it's means the same as it is.   "Its" in this case is using" it" to refer to the noun" issue" and the possessive modifier "entirety" as a property of this specific issue.   So this exchange  shows interesting psychology between two people who are antagonistic towards each other.  Autonomous who somehow seems to be trying to make a case that the irrational act by the defendant was justified by by a real shotgun which somehow magically disappeared. But then he uses a cheap trick to  Disparage 2122 for a common grammar mistake.( I make it often) Then 2122 comes back to attack the person of' autonomous', taunting him for being impotent to get the defendant out of jail.Then 2122 shows interesting irrationality by saying he will leave his grammar mistake uncorrected, as a sort of psychological homage to the  rightness of Dunns conviction and sentence.  Then there are all the other various attributions as to motive all as far as I can see without any evidence.  I would like to see a real psychiatric professional go through Dunns mind and try to figure out what made  him snap.  Right now all we have is an irrational act without any reason. or even evidence of any reason

@Alfred Indy first the state really wanted a guilty verdict to avoid more racial trouble.  That is incontrovertible.  Second appeals courts are not allowed to  change jury verdicts by reassessing  facts.  The jury found willful homicide  and rejected self defense.  The appeals court could only overturn that if Rhonda gave evidence to appeals  that she had been coerced into testimony by the police threat which she did not .  Third 90 years was absurd there was no premeditation and there was  probable provocation.  The sentence was a sop to the black community upset about black racism.  The Power structure does that a lot.  fourth IF  as you said   his entire record was a youthful DUI and  a bust of restricted airspace which is not even a criminal offense unless he willfully entered into R airspace when he knew he had done it and knew  it was active at the time. (THERE AINT NO LINES UP THERE FYI  AND LOW TIME VFR  PILOTS OFTEN GET A LITTLE OFF COURSE.)   so by your evidence ( AND i have no idea how complete this evidence was,) he was just a regular guy.  Come on people Evidence is names dates witnesses willing to attest to what they actually experienced, not conjecture and hearsay.

@Alfred Indy I would go with the second conviction  but not the first  I believe the teens well may have woof faked Dunn into believing they had a gun and were going to fire I believe his state of partial inebriation would have contributed to his panicked fire I believe he thought the gun was real.  I believe he did not report this  because he thought that it would go badly for him.  I believe if he had been the murdering racist that he has been  portrayed as being that he would have acted out long before his mid forties.  My beliefs are based upon logic and the information so far that has be brought forward If you have any Facts that would logically invalidate my beliefs please put them forward.

@Alfred Indy If i walked down the street and said " I am going to go get my nine and blow you away" I could be ARRESTED AND CONVICTED FOR MAKING A TERRORIST THREAT  but if I come into a  gas station in a car full of black youths and look mean at people turn the volume up and sing along with the same lyrics and maybe make a few gestures, you are saying that I am now protected because I am just singing and dancing along with the radio?? really ?? Maybe you would like to think about that a little bit!!

@Alfred Indy If i walked down the street and said " I am going to go get my nine and blow you away" I could be ARRESTED AND CONVICTED FOR MAKING A TERRORIST THREAT  but if I come into a  gas station in a car full of black youths and look mean at people turn the volume up and sing along with the same lyrics and maybe make a few gestures, you are saying that I am now protected because I am just singing and dancing along with the radio?? really ?? Maybe you would like to think about that a little bit!!

@Alfred Indy Unfortunatley as the innocence project has found the Jury system is too easily swayed by slick tricks by the proprietorial team and by judges eager to go along to get along. I can sympathize with you that you think this guy was venal, rather than just confused and panicked  but he has no record of venality towards blacks.  Now this is pure speculation and not evidence but just maybe the guy was so far gone and  that the kid was woofing but Dunn read it as a real threat   wouldn't be the first time by a long shot.  I am just speculating so you can see the possibilities.    The fact is I do not think Dunn would have done that if he did not think he was being threatened with a weapon.  Now that is just my opinion but it is based upon my experience in life and that I know that people are creatures of habit.  Again  this case is important enough that all the facts of both Dunn and these Kids should be thoroughly dug up.

@Autonomous Thought your arguments defeat themselves when you attest motives to others in ad hominem attacks.  You have no idea what motivates Alfred Indy and you owe him a apology for the smear.

@Autonomous Thought your arguments defeat themselves when you attest motives to others in ad hominem attacks.  You have no idea what motivates Alfred Indy and you owe him a apology for the smear.

@johnb66y " I support the innocence project  unfortunately winning at trial very much depends how far the establishment is willing to push tings to get the result ot wants"  <=== well then you lose like Michael Dunn did. He has exhausted all his chances at appealing his conviction.

@johnb66y " I support the innocence project  unfortunately winning at trial very much depends how far the establishment is willing to push tings to get the result ot wants"  <=== well then you lose like Michael Dunn did. He has exhausted all his chances at appealing his conviction.

@johnb66y I don't get your point. Appeals courts iron out the flaws of the original trial. I know research attorneys and they go into each appeal with an open mind and research the whole case and whether the suspect was robbed of any rights. They would have found a flaw if there was any possibility that there was a gun involved.

The fact still remains that Michael Dunn never reported the incident to the police, like every permit carrying gun owner knows that you have to do. That alone proves guilt.

@johnb66y I don't get your point. Appeals courts iron out the flaws of the original trial. I know research attorneys and they go into each appeal with an open mind and research the whole case and whether the suspect was robbed of any rights. They would have found a flaw if there was any possibility that there was a gun involved.

The fact still remains that Michael Dunn never reported the incident to the police, like every permit carrying gun owner knows that you have to do. That alone proves guilt.

@Alfred Indy I support the innocence project  unfortunately winning at trial very much depends how far the establishment is willing to push tings to get the result ot wants

@Alfred Indy I support the innocence project  unfortunately winning at trial very much depends how far the establishment is willing to push tings to get the result ot wants

@johnb66y Please don't mistake three appeals attempts: district, state court of appeals, and state supreme court. Your ignorance is calling three courts judges lying about your imaginary evidence.

He lost all three appeals because he never had a case to begin with. Three courts threw out his appeal. You going to call me a liar when three judges think as I do?

Guilty people run and do not report shootings. Honorable permit carrying gun owners like myself know to move to a safe place and call 911 immediately.

@johnb66y Please don't mistake three appeals attempts: district, state court of appeals, and state supreme court. Your ignorance is calling three courts judges lying about your imaginary evidence.

He lost all three appeals because he never had a case to begin with. Three courts threw out his appeal. You going to call me a liar when three judges think as I do?

Guilty people run and do not report shootings. Honorable permit carrying gun owners like myself know to move to a safe place and call 911 immediately.

@Sa-Amir el-Hayeed testimony of this please testimony and video

@Sa-Amir el-Hayeed testimony of this please testimony and video

@David Crandall  again more evidence again  I ask for provenance trial testimony page and date would be nice.  and at what volume was this playing

@David Crandall  again more evidence again  I ask for provenance trial testimony page and date would be nice.  and at what volume was this playing

@Sa-Amir el-Hayeed that is extremely important evidence. Obviously if they did have a gun they would have ditched it.  But like the other evidence presented here. provenese reference to trial testimony please.

@Sa-Amir el-Hayeed that is extremely important evidence. Obviously if they did have a gun they would have ditched it.  But like the other evidence presented here. provenese reference to trial testimony please.

@Alfred Indy actually the people swore they DID NOT SEE a gun   None of them was close to the action.  Please do not misstate evidence

@Alfred Indy actually the people swore they DID NOT SEE a gun   None of them was close to the action.  Please do not misstate evidence

@rustyshack That is an important issue this is a middle age( late forties} man.  if there was a case of violent racism it surely would have manifested itself before this I have my opinions on his mental state but I will not fuel more wild speculation with conjecture  INVESTIGATION is the answer   FACTS not speculation  HERESAY is not evidence.  surely there are some people out there who knew all the people in this and can provide some ACTUAL eveidence.

@rustyshack That is an important issue this is a middle age( late forties} man.  if there was a case of violent racism it surely would have manifested itself before this I have my opinions on his mental state but I will not fuel more wild speculation with conjecture  INVESTIGATION is the answer   FACTS not speculation  HERESAY is not evidence.  surely there are some people out there who knew all the people in this and can provide some ACTUAL eveidence.

@Autonomous Thought the fallacy in your arguments is that they are  all speculation without evidence. just like many of your opponents.  The issues are  1 How drunk was Dunn 2 just how loud and threatening was the music, loud violent gangsta rap Loud enough that another man deliberately parks away from the SUV  can be deliberately disturbing the peace. 3 Was there a real threat a gesture or was Dunn a complete nutter who would commit murder on  a simple irritation.  4 what previous evidence is there as to Dunns ability or inability to deal rationally with minor irritations while drinking  5  Just how drunk was he at the wedding and was he offensive at the wedding or not?  All these question need to be addressed.  Dunn is not going anywhere.   But this case is raising way to much heat without anyone trying to get to the bottom of this. That is bad for society as a whole,  which is my concern right now not what happens to Dunn.  One extreme  seems to think he was a closet hater who exploded into a murderous rage after a few drinks with only a mild provocation. The other side seems to say  he was seriously threatened with a deadly weapon.  Doesn't anybody want to investigate to see what really happened before this causes further violence or is everybody just good and happy stirring up more violence and saying fuck you to both real and imagined opponents??   Just saying.  .  ..   . and by the way people  if you have evidence to put up, provide provenance  you can see the damage wild speculation does...

Just be respectful and turn the music down.  It's really that simple.

Just be respectful and turn the music down.  It's really that simple.

Autonomous Thought Either way, mind your business. Hearing someone else’s loud music for a few minutes won’t kill you. That’s the problem with this world. Everyone is so sensitive and entitled

Autonomous Thought Either way, mind your business. Hearing someone else’s loud music for a few minutes won’t kill you. That’s the problem with this world. Everyone is so sensitive and entitled

@Autonomous Thought lol you said “cuz” 😅

@Autonomous Thought lol you said “cuz” 😅

I think the guy was pumped up from the wedding and thought he was the shit.

I think the guy was pumped up from the wedding and thought he was the shit.

uh i think  it was because the thugs were coming after him

uh i think  it was because the thugs were coming after him

@Autonomous Thought - Are you saying you think the cops set the white boy up to take the fall for a self-defense shooting by saying that the black kids didn’t have a gun when they did?

@Autonomous Thought - Are you saying you think the cops set the white boy up to take the fall for a self-defense shooting by saying that the black kids didn’t have a gun when they did?

@2122 Only 9 of his peers thought so at his first trial

@2122 Only 9 of his peers thought so at his first trial

@Autonomous Thought ay bro, u still there? u still breathing right?

@Autonomous Thought ay bro, u still there? u still breathing right?

@rustyshack  I think the reason he waited so long to commit this “hate crime” is because up until then he had no real reason to. Being drunk could have escalated his inner hatred. Obviously this is just a guess though.

@rustyshack  I think the reason he waited so long to commit this “hate crime” is because up until then he had no real reason to. Being drunk could have escalated his inner hatred. Obviously this is just a guess though.

Except there’s no punch line this time lol

Except there’s no punch line this time lol

@Autonomous Thought what kind of brain damage does it take to get these garbage ideas? Real talk

@Autonomous Thought what kind of brain damage does it take to get these garbage ideas? Real talk

honestly, this is so fucking hilarious, and it's kind of like it's own justice, right? feels great, anyways.

honestly, this is so fucking hilarious, and it's kind of like it's own justice, right? feels great, anyways.

After a few miles the horse stopped in the middle of the road and the husband gave the horse a light pop with the whip. The horse kicked and bucked. The man quietly murmured "That's strike one.". A few minutes later the horse stopped again and after a light tap on his hind quarters bucked even more violently. This time the man murmured "That's strike two.". A few minutes later the horse bucked again and the man quietly climbed down from the carriage, pulled out a pistol, and shot the horse dead. His new wife immediately began screaming and yelling and striking the man asking what the hell was wrong with him. The man pocketed his pistol, looked up at his distraught wife, and murmured "That's strike one."

@mumfurds he was the father of the groom

@mumfurds he was the father of the groom

@Tea Noire And really there's no evidence that the kid who got shot made ANY threats or did anything at all to contribute to the scene. He couldn't have been turning the music up or down; he was in the back.

@Tea Noire And really there's no evidence that the kid who got shot made ANY threats or did anything at all to contribute to the scene. He couldn't have been turning the music up or down; he was in the back.

@Autonomous Thought I'm an old White lady and one of my favorite songs is 'X gon' give it to you'.

@Autonomous Thought I'm an old White lady and one of my favorite songs is 'X gon' give it to you'.

"This is why we can't have nice things!"

"This is why we can't have nice things!"

@Autonomous Thought didn't know you could access the internet in prison.

@Autonomous Thought didn't know you could access the internet in prison.

@Brian Davis Yes, but I don't think he was intoxicated enough to be seeing things, he just said that story about them advancing on him and the kid having a gun when he was arrested to give his actions an excuse.

He knew where he was shooting, inside the car as the kid never went out. The other shots were probably so he could kill more, but he didn't expect the car to move. Every action he did there was of an aggressor. He must have thought the police were stupid.

@Brian Davis Yes, but I don't think he was intoxicated enough to be seeing things, he just said that story about them advancing on him and the kid having a gun when he was arrested to give his actions an excuse.

He knew where he was shooting, inside the car as the kid never went out. The other shots were probably so he could kill more, but he didn't expect the car to move. Every action he did there was of an aggressor. He must have thought the police were stupid.

@bumpet He was also probably High as well being obviously drunk due to what he drank at the wedding. He was a fan of cocaine as well. Didn't want to get himself in even bigger trouble so he went back to the bed and breakfast, walked the dog, and drank himself to sleep, then proceeded to wake himself up, watch the news of the shooting, and then drive back home. What a sociopath.

@bumpet He was also probably High as well being obviously drunk due to what he drank at the wedding. He was a fan of cocaine as well. Didn't want to get himself in even bigger trouble so he went back to the bed and breakfast, walked the dog, and drank himself to sleep, then proceeded to wake himself up, watch the news of the shooting, and then drive back home. What a sociopath.

He shot at them because he couldn't handle black teenagers talking shit to him. He keeps saying he was threatened and scared but that wasn't true, he was just so angry at them talking back to him that he wanted to kill them.

Based on evidence, the kid that got murdered stayed inside the car the whole time. He just made up a story that they were coming up to him with a weapon and he got scared for his life, when he got arrested, thinking he could fool them that it was self-defense.

He shot at them because he couldn't handle black teenagers talking shit to him. He keeps saying he was threatened and scared but that wasn't true, he was just so angry at them talking back to him that he wanted to kill them.

Based on evidence, the kid that got murdered stayed inside the car the whole time. He just made up a story that they were coming up to him with a weapon and he got scared for his life, when he got arrested, thinking he could fool them that it was self-defense.

@Autonomous Thought also what was the reason to shoot at the car that is moving away

@Autonomous Thought also what was the reason to shoot at the car that is moving away

@Autonomous Thought  no they really didn’t read the ACTUAL facts

@Autonomous Thought  no they really didn’t read the ACTUAL facts

@Autonomous Thought <br>Thank you for the content pseud

@Autonomous Thought
Thank you for the content pseud

Well no, he feared for his and girls life

Well no, he feared for his and girls life

@Autonomous Thought did you watch the video or do you also hate "thug music"

@Autonomous Thought did you watch the video or do you also hate "thug music"

@Autonomous Thought no reason to logically dispute illogical claims.

@Autonomous Thought no reason to logically dispute illogical claims.

@Autonomous Thought it's irrational to believe the grown ass man shooting a gun at a car load of kids that are DRIVING AWAY FROM HIM is the act of an innocent man. There's literally no reason to shoot when they're trying to get away, there's literally no reason to shoot at the car at all.

@Autonomous Thought it's irrational to believe the grown ass man shooting a gun at a car load of kids that are DRIVING AWAY FROM HIM is the act of an innocent man. There's literally no reason to shoot when they're trying to get away, there's literally no reason to shoot at the car at all.

Autonomous Thought He reached into the glove compartment
Pulled out a gun
Had to put the magazine in the gun
Aim
And then start firing

In the time it would have taken him to do this they would have been able to shoot atleast once with this magical shotgun

Nevermind the fact that they never stepped out of the car
And if he had started shooting at them and they had a shotgun they absolutely would have fired back and tried to flee while doing so because there was multiple of them and one of him

It‘s pretty blatant what you are and what you’re trying to do by clicking on your profile but your little "oh you all are ignoring the possibility and just accepting what the police say"
There is no possibility. There was no gun. You don‘t need to accept the police on it, he fires 2 volleys and doesn‘t get fired back at and they wait for him to leave but don‘t shoot the car then for revenge on their friend he shot?

You have to live on the sun for your brain to be fried enough to think that there was even a modicum of a possibility these kids had a gun.

Whos marrying their dad? Lol this isnt a muslim country

Whos marrying their dad? Lol this isnt a muslim country

Thanks for all the likes BTW. This is the most I've ever gotten, And totally unexpected!

Thanks for all the likes BTW. This is the most I've ever gotten, And totally unexpected!

//Rebecca Dunn, Dunn's daughter, defended her father's story, by her statement during an interview, "He is going to protect himself if he sees no other way than to bring out his gun, then that's what he's going to do." She described Dunn as "a good man. He's not a racist. He's very loving."//

//Rebecca Dunn, Dunn's daughter, defended her father's story, by her statement during an interview, "He is going to protect himself if he sees no other way than to bring out his gun, then that's what he's going to do." She described Dunn as "a good man. He's not a racist. He's very loving."//

He’s probably a hero to these kind of peoples.

He’s probably a hero to these kind of peoples.

@Autonomous Thought saying "There isn't evidence that there wasn't a gun" proves that you don't understand evidence. The fact is there was no evidence that there WAS a gun. That's how evidence works.

@Autonomous Thought saying "There isn't evidence that there wasn't a gun" proves that you don't understand evidence. The fact is there was no evidence that there WAS a gun. That's how evidence works.

Autonomous Thought how do you prove a negative.

Autonomous Thought how do you prove a negative.

There’s always that one family member that ruins everything

There’s always that one family member that ruins everything

I’d get married on a different day, I’d act as if that day never happened I’d call the court and tell them to scratch the day completely

I’d get married on a different day, I’d act as if that day never happened I’d call the court and tell them to scratch the day completely

It’s admirable that that people are fighting the good fight with Autonomous Thought but the prosecutor basically already dealt with this. Yes it’s theoretically possible that the neighborhood helped the kids hide the gun, that Dunn got temporary amnesia and forgot to mention it for 24 hours, that he only saw the gun in the split second between saying ‘don’t talk to me like that’ and firing, that the witnesses somehow only heard Dunn’s tantrum and not the kids’ (shouted) death threats, that the kids were actually massive thugs despite all having clean records, etc etc. But beyond reasonable doubt does not require the exclusion of these fanciful possibilities. And if it’s good enough for the Court is certainly not ‘immoral’ for people to be certain of Dunn’s guilt. If you are truly interested in the truth then I think you should consider why you seem to require the proof of Dunn’s guilt beyond all doubt and whether it is you who is seeing things through a distorting racial prism. With the likes of Philando Castile etc can you really say with a straight face that US society is quick to presume and punish white on black violence as some sort of racial reparation?

2122 that is not a good argument though, as I will prove in two words: Casey Anthony.

2122 that is not a good argument though, as I will prove in two words: Casey Anthony.

Do you suppose he sends his son a Happy Anniversary card from prison each year?

Do you suppose he sends his son a Happy Anniversary card from prison each year?

Oh shit man. Never thought about that. My mother is a murderer also, shenkilled a black man in 1976 on South Beach in Miami. She was able to make bail and ran for 26 years. They caught her in the state of Maine in 2003 and she was released in 2010. She is free living off the tax payers on disability still using racist terminology in the daily rants on FB. I asked her at one point at dinner before I totaly stopped speaking to her and writing to her. Anyway back to question " do you ever feel bad about killing that man?" Her response " I feel bad I got caught."  I have no idea why she's out living her life while that man is dead. I feel ashamed of my her and I can't in good conscious be there for her mother or not.

So, Cops are able to do it, Military are able to, etc, etc..<br>That's also why there's a movement, and that should also be why we start seeing A LOT more Cops finally getting the same JUSTICE that We, as citizens, get!

So, Cops are able to do it, Military are able to, etc, etc..
That's also why there's a movement, and that should also be why we start seeing A LOT more Cops finally getting the same JUSTICE that We, as citizens, get!

" killed a guy for playing loud music"  That's not the story though.  He shot someone because they insulted him and he couldn't handle it.

" killed a guy for playing loud music"  That's not the story though.  He shot someone because they insulted him and he couldn't handle it.

@Captain Freedom inebriated emotional men constantly get into unnecessary altercations while drunk and emotional. What faulty logic here.

@Captain Freedom inebriated emotional men constantly get into unnecessary altercations while drunk and emotional. What faulty logic here.

@Danielle Calderwood you tell'em danielle.

@Danielle Calderwood you tell'em danielle.

@Autonomous Thought but why put all of that energy into so many post? It's  over he's  locked up.

@Autonomous Thought but why put all of that energy into so many post? It's  over he's  locked up.

Eh, not likely that she remembers it that way, as she told the news back when he was first tried in court that he was a "good man" and that if he had to "defend himself" (against what exactly, I wonder?) he would. Doesn't seem like she thinks he was guilty at all! Idiocy runs in the family

Eh, not likely that she remembers it that way, as she told the news back when he was first tried in court that he was a "good man" and that if he had to "defend himself" (against what exactly, I wonder?) he would. Doesn't seem like she thinks he was guilty at all! Idiocy runs in the family

@Autonomous Thought thank you so much for this thread.

@Autonomous Thought thank you so much for this thread.

Nobody will ever know. Nobody was there except the two parties. Nobody ever gonna know. Both could be equally responsible

Nobody will ever know. Nobody was there except the two parties. Nobody ever gonna know. Both could be equally responsible

so stop playing loud music in a public place kid. learn to show some respect.

so stop playing loud music in a public place kid. learn to show some respect.

@J H bro, I don't think it was the alcohol.  He seems like the wild west type. Can't say if mattered that they were black( only he really knows) but I'm pretty sure he isn't used to people saying no to him, and I doubt it would've mattered much if they were white. Just another loose cannon with no real empathy for the human race.

@J H bro, I don't think it was the alcohol.  He seems like the wild west type. Can't say if mattered that they were black( only he really knows) but I'm pretty sure he isn't used to people saying no to him, and I doubt it would've mattered much if they were white. Just another loose cannon with no real empathy for the human race.

That music threatened his life.... Maybe he was just trying to hit the radio

That music threatened his life.... Maybe he was just trying to hit the radio

Imagine  being the parent of that guy he killed:(

Imagine  being the parent of that guy he killed:(

thak u i needed a description for what this is about lol

thak u i needed a description for what this is about lol

@Autonomous Thought I'm worry abt u dude srsly, a man who's defending another one who KILLED a teenager is just messed up i hope no one get hurt by u in the future .

@Autonomous Thought I'm worry abt u dude srsly, a man who's defending another one who KILLED a teenager is just messed up i hope no one get hurt by u in the future .

@Autonomous Thought I’ve got good news for you. Jim didn’t convict this guy, a jury who sat through all the evidence and multiple witness testimony did. So... everything you just said was pointless drivel.

@Autonomous Thought I’ve got good news for you. Jim didn’t convict this guy, a jury who sat through all the evidence and multiple witness testimony did. So... everything you just said was pointless drivel.

@Autonomous Thought <br>Tfw his story was contradicted by all parties present, they found no eveidence self-defence, he changed up his story, and was found guilty by his peers and you're trying to defend him with "facts and logic".

@Autonomous Thought
Tfw his story was contradicted by all parties present, they found no eveidence self-defence, he changed up his story, and was found guilty by his peers and you're trying to defend him with "facts and logic".

Maybe he was mad because he didn't want that wedding to happen? And that's why he shoot someone?

Maybe he was mad because he didn't want that wedding to happen? And that's why he shoot someone?

@Autonomous Thought How do you imagine an evidence of an absence of a thing would look? You don't prove absence, you prove that there were no evidence for presence.

@Autonomous Thought How do you imagine an evidence of an absence of a thing would look? You don't prove absence, you prove that there were no evidence for presence.

@rustyshack Yes, because murder and 2-3 counts of attempted murder should render a charge less of that then 1 charge of Aggravated sexual assault

@rustyshack Yes, because murder and 2-3 counts of attempted murder should render a charge less of that then 1 charge of Aggravated sexual assault

Jr probably was all that surprised, really. No one that knew Dunn personally was surprised in the least, apparently.

Jr probably was all that surprised, really. No one that knew Dunn personally was surprised in the least, apparently.

@Autonomous Thought You should lay off the Ben Shapiro bro. Find a hobby to relax your mind and learn to be at peace.

@Autonomous Thought You should lay off the Ben Shapiro bro. Find a hobby to relax your mind and learn to be at peace.

No, you have mouthy 17 year after of threatening him with 3 other punks to back him up

No, you have mouthy 17 year after of threatening him with 3 other punks to back him up

Autonomous Thought FOH with word salad, lol.

Autonomous Thought FOH with word salad, lol.

Oh my! He really ruined their anniversary :/

Oh my! He really ruined their anniversary :/

@Autonomous Thought exactly. And they went to court. And based upon the evidence and the <b>facts</b> he was convicted.

@Autonomous Thought exactly. And they went to court. And based upon the evidence and the *facts* he was convicted.

Autonomous Thought.... All those words for what? Make yourself feel better? Need a hug?

Autonomous Thought.... All those words for what? Make yourself feel better? Need a hug?

dont really think it was the music. if they were white and playing loud music do you think there would be a trial?

dont really think it was the music. if they were white and playing loud music do you think there would be a trial?

@Autonomous Thought I would bet a lot of money that you're unemployed and have said "why don't we have a white history month?" before.

@Autonomous Thought I would bet a lot of money that you're unemployed and have said "why don't we have a white history month?" before.

Alfred Indy I believe what Autonomous Thought is saying is that we don’t know for certain whether the kids had a gun or not or whether they threatened him or not. But consider this: do wealthy middle-aged software developers just pull a gun and start shooting at a gas station?

Alfred Indy I believe what Autonomous Thought is saying is that we don’t know for certain whether the kids had a gun or not or whether they threatened him or not. But consider this: do wealthy middle-aged software developers just pull a gun and start shooting at a gas station?

Autonomous Thought If reasonable people like you or me have doubts about his guilt, then Dunn should have been found not guilty.

Autonomous Thought If reasonable people like you or me have doubts about his guilt, then Dunn should have been found not guilty.

@Autonomous Thought yeah except this lunatic continued to fire shots even as they retreated!

@Autonomous Thought yeah except this lunatic continued to fire shots even as they retreated!

@Autonomous Thought so... what evidence do you have for believing what you believe?

@Autonomous Thought so... what evidence do you have for believing what you believe?

@Autonomous Thought what!?! He used "it's" instead of "its"? Well that just discreets everything he said! Good job dude!!!

@Autonomous Thought what!?! He used "it's" instead of "its"? Well that just discreets everything he said! Good job dude!!!

@Conor Williamson "and were gonna top that with a little creme fraiche ugghh yeaahhh"

@Conor Williamson "and were gonna top that with a little creme fraiche ugghh yeaahhh"

That is crazy the imagine. <br>Just imagine they think he was protecting himself.

That is crazy the imagine.
Just imagine they think he was protecting himself.

@mumfurds Yes it was. He was planning reconnecting with his son after the wedding, but he blew it. Permanently.

@mumfurds Yes it was. He was planning reconnecting with his son after the wedding, but he blew it. Permanently.

@catothewiser They weren't thugs, they were teenagers The worlds full of 'em, we're not entitled to shoot 'em cause  they are defiant, it's their nature.

@catothewiser They weren't thugs, they were teenagers The worlds full of 'em, we're not entitled to shoot 'em cause  they are defiant, it's their nature.

Image the family who have lost a son/daughter bein' shot dead (even their own) by some idiot who was given a gun permit who had no qualms shooting it without critical assessment.... in a public venue 'cause they were intoxicated, were irritated by loud music and a mouthy response and then runs.  Sadly, there are plenty of innocent folks who have died at the hands of such idiots.

Image the family who have lost a son/daughter bein' shot dead (even their own) by some idiot who was given a gun permit who had no qualms shooting it without critical assessment.... in a public venue 'cause they were intoxicated, were irritated by loud music and a mouthy response and then runs.  Sadly, there are plenty of innocent folks who have died at the hands of such idiots.

Autonomous Thought Don’t criticise others misuse of words. When you can’t capitalise, use commas or full stops yourself mate.

Autonomous Thought Don’t criticise others misuse of words. When you can’t capitalise, use commas or full stops yourself mate.

@Autonomous Thought they didnt threaten him and there was no weapon. Jesus christ

@Autonomous Thought they didnt threaten him and there was no weapon. Jesus christ

Murder pretty much only happens for a few reasons. Revenge, capital gain, and perversion. Not loud music. Wtf?

Murder pretty much only happens for a few reasons. Revenge, capital gain, and perversion. Not loud music. Wtf?

@Autonomous Thought Just Another Happy Humanist did not say this was based on race. She said you guys discount actual evidence in the case, and think that the court system was not fair. Sorry - either put up or shut up - Michael Dunn. You either prove the evidence that Jordan had a gun and disposed of it or you don't have a legitimate case to appeal. Also, Michael Dunn prove to us why you ignored your permit to carry requirement to report your firearm use.

@Autonomous Thought Just Another Happy Humanist did not say this was based on race. She said you guys discount actual evidence in the case, and think that the court system was not fair. Sorry - either put up or shut up - Michael Dunn. You either prove the evidence that Jordan had a gun and disposed of it or you don't have a legitimate case to appeal. Also, Michael Dunn prove to us why you ignored your permit to carry requirement to report your firearm use.

Plot twist.Shes now married to a BLACK man.😆Im DUNN!!
Sad story.😭..😀 LAUGHTER eases pain.Have a FREE LAUGH on me.Watch my 2nd OPEN MIC.

Plot twist.Shes now married to a BLACK man.😆Im DUNN!!
Sad story.😭..😀 LAUGHTER eases pain.Have a FREE LAUGH on me.Watch my 2nd OPEN MIC.

Autonomous Thought You wrote like 20 replies and all you have to offer are ad hominem attacks, stipulations, and appeals to ignorance. At least brush up on your argumentative skills if you’re going to be a keyboard warrior.

Autonomous Thought You wrote like 20 replies and all you have to offer are ad hominem attacks, stipulations, and appeals to ignorance. At least brush up on your argumentative skills if you’re going to be a keyboard warrior.

@Autonomous Thought You are morally against, or  at least unconvinced, of the American justice system's intent behind utilizing judges, jury, and witnesses. That or the concept of people having faith in these things.

If the former, would you rather the court cases be managed by a computer? I'm just curious

@Autonomous Thought You are morally against, or  at least unconvinced, of the American justice system's intent behind utilizing judges, jury, and witnesses. That or the concept of people having faith in these things.

If the former, would you rather the court cases be managed by a computer? I'm just curious

@Kev Dean Yes, and reoccurring dates of Michael Dunn trying to appeal his case. He has lost two appeal attempts already, but it has to hurt reminding them that the murderer wants his freedom, which means Jordan meant nothing to him.

@Kev Dean Yes, and reoccurring dates of Michael Dunn trying to appeal his case. He has lost two appeal attempts already, but it has to hurt reminding them that the murderer wants his freedom, which means Jordan meant nothing to him.

Imagine loosing a friend a brother and a child. Those trump any wedding day memories that will be bad for her.

Imagine loosing a friend a brother and a child. Those trump any wedding day memories that will be bad for her.

@Autonomous Thought Bro stop trolling.  I know your game...

@Autonomous Thought Bro stop trolling.  I know your game...

@Autonomous Thought calling people immoral because they are conscious of racism?

@Autonomous Thought calling people immoral because they are conscious of racism?

@Sa-Amir el-Hayeed What are the key elements you would have seen in this case if there really had been a gun in the van - besides the fact that no one saw the gun in the parking lot, or the fact that Dunn never told Rhonda? First - the teens would have not come back to the scene of the shooting and would have taken Jordan to the emergency. They did not plan to circle back and pretend that they did not have a weapon. That would have taken way too much planning. They reacted like suburban teens who were just assaulted. Second - Dunn would have not used suppression fire and would have got the license number to report the van who tried to shoot him. None of this - I believe Jordan could have had a gun and ditched it - makes any sense. Neither the teens nor Dunn would have reacted the way they did if the teens had a shotgun. Third, who would have retrieved the shotgun from the lot when the teens were all taken in after the incident? Do people not report a shotgun laying in the lot of a strip mall? The whole thing that Dunn claimed is science fiction at best.

Besides, if Dunn got a retrial for the Jordan Davis shooting what would that prove? He would then have to appeal his suppression fire at a fleeing vehicle which was a second conviction and would have to be appealed separately. He still has 20 years to serve on firing into a vehicle.

@Alfred Indy that's an irrational conclusion. you don't know what happened but you're acting like you do because of social proof. you're an immoral person. again, my position isn't even that he's not guilty

@Alfred Indy that's an irrational conclusion. you don't know what happened but you're acting like you do because of social proof. you're an immoral person. again, my position isn't even that he's not guilty

@Alfred IndyWell, they weren't: "She loves you yeah, yeah, yeah"  or:  "I wanna hold your hand."  But things would have turned out differently if it was.

@Alfred IndyWell, they weren't: "She loves you yeah, yeah, yeah"  or:  "I wanna hold your hand."  But things would have turned out differently if it was.

@Autonomous Thought No, if we followed your lead we would be destroying society by destroying the concept of the jury system. A group of people exactly like Michael Dunn listened to the case and found what he said to be garbage and convicted him. Then two appeals judges found what the District court did to be within the law. Basically you are stating that our system sucks! Maybe you better swallow your ego and conclude that Michael Dunn sucks?

@Autonomous Thought No, if we followed your lead we would be destroying society by destroying the concept of the jury system. A group of people exactly like Michael Dunn listened to the case and found what he said to be garbage and convicted him. Then two appeals judges found what the District court did to be within the law. Basically you are stating that our system sucks! Maybe you better swallow your ego and conclude that Michael Dunn sucks?

@Taylor Fausett why does it have to be the past? why are you afraid to acknowledge the possibility that they actually threatened him? you people are destroying your society with your fear of seeming racist, it's pathetic and you're deeply immoral

@Taylor Fausett why does it have to be the past? why are you afraid to acknowledge the possibility that they actually threatened him? you people are destroying your society with your fear of seeming racist, it's pathetic and you're deeply immoral

@Sa-Amir el-Hayeed If it had been reasonable - he would have not lost his original case and two appeals so far. The fact that he ran and tried to go home never calling the LE speaks volumes for his innocents.

@Sa-Amir el-Hayeed If it had been reasonable - he would have not lost his original case and two appeals so far. The fact that he ran and tried to go home never calling the LE speaks volumes for his innocents.

@Alfred Indy I wasn't defending his actions in any way. I was saying that it was possible that the people in the other car could have reasonably left, dropped the gun somewhere and come back to the scene of the crime

@Alfred Indy I wasn't defending his actions in any way. I was saying that it was possible that the people in the other car could have reasonably left, dropped the gun somewhere and come back to the scene of the crime

@Sa-Amir el-Hayeed Carry permit class 101: Rule number 1) You are allowed to flee to a safe place but, YOU MUST REPORT ANY SHOOTING THAT YOU ARE INVOLVED IN. I will be generous, and give him to the safety of his hotel room - but after that - it was a fleeing felon. You better read up on firearm training. You cannot wait 24 hours to report a self-defense shooting. You are forced to call right away.

@Sa-Amir el-Hayeed Carry permit class 101: Rule number 1) You are allowed to flee to a safe place but, YOU MUST REPORT ANY SHOOTING THAT YOU ARE INVOLVED IN. I will be generous, and give him to the safety of his hotel room - but after that - it was a fleeing felon. You better read up on firearm training. You cannot wait 24 hours to report a self-defense shooting. You are forced to call right away.

@Alfred Indy rewatch the video the cop told that to the murderer when he explained that he ran away because he thought there could be more people coming

@Alfred Indy rewatch the video the cop told that to the murderer when he explained that he ran away because he thought there could be more people coming

@Sa-Amir el-Hayeed Not even remotely possible.

@Sa-Amir el-Hayeed Not even remotely possible.

@David Crandall Look at the Brightside - Duntz is hard of hearing and did not hear the lyrics.

@David Crandall Look at the Brightside - Duntz is hard of hearing and did not hear the lyrics.

The lyrics of the BEEF song playing were basically: said: "you don't want no beef with us because we will run up on you and shoot you."

The lyrics of the BEEF song playing were basically: said: "you don't want no beef with us because we will run up on you and shoot you."

@Autonomous Thought I agree to a point. I don't know this man's past. Maybe he had been attached or threatened in his past. Maybe that's why he had a gun. I think he may have imagined that the young men were threatening him. He heard what he "wanted" or imagined what they said. So he was scared and reached out of misinformation.

@Autonomous Thought I agree to a point. I don't know this man's past. Maybe he had been attached or threatened in his past. Maybe that's why he had a gun. I think he may have imagined that the young men were threatening him. He heard what he "wanted" or imagined what they said. So he was scared and reached out of misinformation.

christine robinson     you must have missed the end of the video...

christine robinson     you must have missed the end of the video...

@Autonomous Thought Why is it so hard to accept that he is a murderer and there is undeniable proof? Are you insane? You're making yourself look like a clown online.

@Autonomous Thought Why is it so hard to accept that he is a murderer and there is undeniable proof? Are you insane? You're making yourself look like a clown online.

@Danielle Calderwood they did leave the parking lot. They "circled around and came back in the parking lot after seeing him leave the parking lot" could have easily dropped a gun somewhere.

@Danielle Calderwood they did leave the parking lot. They "circled around and came back in the parking lot after seeing him leave the parking lot" could have easily dropped a gun somewhere.

@Autonomous Thought you talk about the evidence you didn't see and the testimony you didn't hear .... But the jurors saw and heard the evidence and testimony... And they found him guilty.

So.... There's that?

Look at the possibilities. Look at the evidence. Weigh these things. Judge credibility of the sources. Render a verdict.

Even if the threats occured, which literally nobody but the shooter says happened, the shoot was still not justified self-defence.

When you have to really stretch the bounds and bring in conspiracies and hidden stealth ninjas absconding with evidence in order to cast doubt on the established narrative.... Then the doubt is not reasonable doubt.

Someone in this comment section needs a hobby

Someone in this comment section needs a hobby

Autonomous Thought do you realize there was no gun there? No fun at the scene lol talking about facts and logic meanwhile you’re the one clearly emotional! Funny username btw since it seems u look at things from the lens of your preexisting zeitgeist and worldview, but hey I cud be wrong bout that. I have an open mind for real

Autonomous Thought do you realize there was no gun there? No fun at the scene lol talking about facts and logic meanwhile you’re the one clearly emotional! Funny username btw since it seems u look at things from the lens of your preexisting zeitgeist and worldview, but hey I cud be wrong bout that. I have an open mind for real

@Autonomous Thought This guy is already unhinged as it is. What makes you think you can just say he was threatened? Or that there was a weapon when it was never proven? They towed the vehicle from the store.. Dude was 6 drinks in maybe more. His ability to make sound judgement was impaired. Not to mention he just went home and ordered a fuckin pizza and took his dog for a walk. And then proceeded to drink himself to sleep.??

@Autonomous Thought This guy is already unhinged as it is. What makes you think you can just say he was threatened? Or that there was a weapon when it was never proven? They towed the vehicle from the store.. Dude was 6 drinks in maybe more. His ability to make sound judgement was impaired. Not to mention he just went home and ordered a fuckin pizza and took his dog for a walk. And then proceeded to drink himself to sleep.??

@christine robinson He has lost two appeals, so far. It is safe to say that it is an open and cut case of guilty. Besides, threatening someone (if true) without being an imminent threat is not justification for self-defense. Please review the self-defense and stand your ground laws in Florida for more assistance.

Dunn's past: arrested for DUI, when he was younger; Flying his plane in a restricted airspace and having to be forced down my the military planes. Not a perfect citizen in his past, either.

Rhonda made a sworn statement stating what she said. She could have been prosecuted as being part of the crime. I don't think she was persuaded other than fear of being dragged into fleeing the scene of crime.

The whole trial was on court tv. People are not arm chairing the jury. The jury came to the right decision.

Autonomous thought you are stating succinctly what I am thinking. Police lie during interrogations purposely to pump info and confessions out of people. He very well could have believed there was a shotgun—seems very a reasonable conclusion. The other witnesses may not have heard death threats from their vantage points. And just because these young men had no records doesn’t mean they have stellar character. They were behaving less than stellar, in fact. They weren’t exactly choir boys. And about the point, did the 17 year old “deserve” to die? I guess I want to say, Don’t tempt fate by threatening another’s life. None of this should have happened. The couple was drunk. Judgment was lessened. Michael is an instigator, and the young men chose to get riled rather than let it go. They could have chosen to ignore Michael. Afterall, a trip to the convenience store is rarely longer than ten minutes. Both of the parties could have ignored one another. Poor Ronda, she just wants some wine to get even more drunk. Maybe she was looking for some action back at the hotel. I hope none of the commenters on this thread ever serve on a jury. Their judgment is clouded by misconceptions of evidence. One point in that regard is that witnesses see something through their own worldview lens. Each person witnesses an event in entirely different ways. They could even be lying for their own purpose. Even video footage is not foolproof because it doesn’t record what happened prior to the recording. Ronda was very convincing in the trial, but she could have been persuaded to say that; after all she’s easily manipulated. It’s all these things together that make a case, not just one thing. I would have to have been in the trial to know if I would pronounce him guilty or not. That’s not possible from my armchair viewing of cherry picked commentary and footage. I see some gray area here; it’s not open and shut. As advice and warning to readers and viewers, I would suggest laying off the rum at parties. Maybe this could have been avoided if he hadn’t been buzzed or even drunk.

Brian Davis I hadn’t even thought of that. Wow.

Brian Davis I hadn’t even thought of that. Wow.

@Autonomous Thought you are just arguing for the sake of arguing.

You keep saying how there is a small chance that his actions were justified.
And sure, thats true. nobody is saying that there was no chance in hell that hes innocent.
BUT you dont have to point that out, its like saying that the sky is blue and then acting intelectually superior because of it.
There is a possiblity for anything , thats a logical point of view that all sane people share. But nobody points that out cause its a given.

Also, most of the people, including me, are replying to your opening statement: "he killed him for threatening him, not playing loud music, try to keep up with facts and logic and not just your emotions" which is different from arguing a slight possiblity that his actions are justified.
Enjoy living on your high horse, you are up for a bumpy ride if you act like this in real life.
Best of luck

@Filip Raos no, if you had a 3 digit IQ you'd be able to read and think properly, and you'd realize that my position isn't that i believe him. it's that there isn't proof of what is being claimed either way

@Filip Raos no, if you had a 3 digit IQ you'd be able to read and think properly, and you'd realize that my position isn't that i believe him. it's that there isn't proof of what is being claimed either way

@Autonomous Thought so you choose to believe him, a man with 5+ drinks in him and not his wife and witnesses, nice facts and logic.

@Autonomous Thought so you choose to believe him, a man with 5+ drinks in him and not his wife and witnesses, nice facts and logic.

@Samuel David there definitely isn't substantial evidence, what are you talking about? and what a completely nonsensical thing to say. what i'm calling immoral is objectively immoral, as long as you subjectively agree that adhering to truth is better than not adhering to truth. you disagree on that subjective premise? you think questioning that subjective premise is actually a substantial argument? are you new to thinking about morality? cuz literally everything else you said to me implies that you agree that adhering to truth is superior to not adhering to truth, although maybe not, because you are pretty bad at it

@Autonomous Thought You are misusing the negated version NOT proven.

@Autonomous Thought You are misusing the negated version NOT proven.

@Autonomous Thought You keep using the phrase "irrational and immoral". Why? What makes an argument "immoral"? What is morality to you? You should avoid using such subjective language if you're attempting to make an argument from objectivity. What you've argued so far isn't compelling. There was enough evidence from the interrogation, the witnesses, and the crime scene itself to make a case for the suspect's motive. Rejecting evidence is irrational.

@Autonomous Thought You keep using the phrase "irrational and immoral". Why? What makes an argument "immoral"? What is morality to you? You should avoid using such subjective language if you're attempting to make an argument from objectivity. What you've argued so far isn't compelling. There was enough evidence from the interrogation, the witnesses, and the crime scene itself to make a case for the suspect's motive. Rejecting evidence is irrational.

@Alfred Indy you're misusing the word "proved"

@Alfred Indy you're misusing the word "proved"

@Autonomous Thought I am struggling because this case proved (along with two failed appeals) that this wasn't self-defense. If there was a shotgun then that would change the conviction. Did Michael Dunn carry the shotgun away in his rectum? The witness who saw the van stop swore - no gun. The people at the gas station swore - no gun. So the only logical theory is - that Michael Dunn sat on the shotgun and forgot it was there. Under your logic that is a possibility.

@Autonomous Thought I am struggling because this case proved (along with two failed appeals) that this wasn't self-defense. If there was a shotgun then that would change the conviction. Did Michael Dunn carry the shotgun away in his rectum? The witness who saw the van stop swore - no gun. The people at the gas station swore - no gun. So the only logical theory is - that Michael Dunn sat on the shotgun and forgot it was there. Under your logic that is a possibility.

@Alfred Indy my claim isn't that there was a shotgun. i never said there was conclusive proof that there was a shotgun. my position is that it's not a fact that there was no shotgun. how are you struggling this? me saying it's not a fact that there was no shotgun =/= me saying it's fact that there was a shotgun

@Alfred Indy my claim isn't that there was a shotgun. i never said there was conclusive proof that there was a shotgun. my position is that it's not a fact that there was no shotgun. how are you struggling this? me saying it's not a fact that there was no shotgun =/= me saying it's fact that there was a shotgun

@Autonomous Thought Nothing Dunn said conclusive proof that there was a shotgun! And my opinion is more sound than yours because the one witness walking out to his car right before Dunn started shooting, stated on the witness stand - he said nothing in the van that resembled a shotgun in the hands of the teens. That is 100 percent more creditable than a slip on a 911 call where the caller signed a sworn statement than he did not see the teens disposing of a weapon.

If Dunn had anything to prove a possibility of a shotgun one of his appeal attempts would have at least heard his case. No courts have granted him a retrial.

@Alfred Indy uh, i didn't call disbelief mentally weak, i clearly called forming beliefs in unproven things mentally weak. none of what you said is conclusive proof that there was no shotgun

@Alfred Indy uh, i didn't call disbelief mentally weak, i clearly called forming beliefs in unproven things mentally weak. none of what you said is conclusive proof that there was no shotgun

@Violet Joy I forget if I was at that gas station that night or the previous day. You could very easily hide a weapon for a period of time. I do think racism was a motivating factor in this, but in Florida if you go out you come across black people, I'm sure this was a daily occurrence for this guy, why did he wait so long to commit this "hate crime"? Almost as if, real or perceived, in this instance he feared for his life. This is a well lit, rather nice gas station that backs up to a gated community, not the type of place where you would "finally have a chance". Would that kid be alive if he hadn't acted like an asshole? Yes.
Do I believe he should be in jail in 2020?
No, he did not plan this and I believe he was fearful,  the average rapist serves less than 4 years and you have to try to make that happen. This guy is an example of man bites dog, white guy kills a black teen, so he got punished. Murder 3 people set the car on fire and don't cooperate, I doubt you get even 15 years, assuming all victims and perpetrators are black. He got punished for a narrative(and cooperation)
(EDIT) That said a 10 year sentence, serve 2/3 would've been appropriate in my opinion. Also we, as a nation, need to punish rapists much more severely.

@Autonomous Thought It is not mentally weak to disregard a conspiracy where the 911 caller signed a sworn statement that he did not see any object leaving the van. It is not mentally weak to that out of three jurors that two juries convicted him, throwing out his shotgun story. It is not mentally weak to consider that he has lost two appeals and that each lose weakens his excuse.

@Autonomous Thought It is not mentally weak to disregard a conspiracy where the 911 caller signed a sworn statement that he did not see any object leaving the van. It is not mentally weak to that out of three jurors that two juries convicted him, throwing out his shotgun story. It is not mentally weak to consider that he has lost two appeals and that each lose weakens his excuse.

@Tea Noire if he thought they had a gun it makes complete sense that he'd continue to fire at the vehicle to ensure that it continues to drive away and not return fire. sorry if you can't fathom actually defending yourself with lethal force, it isn't always wrong. your response is hysterical gibberish. you can call it "playing devil's advocate" but actually looking at the facts and both sides is the moral thing to do

@Tea Noire if he thought they had a gun it makes complete sense that he'd continue to fire at the vehicle to ensure that it continues to drive away and not return fire. sorry if you can't fathom actually defending yourself with lethal force, it isn't always wrong. your response is hysterical gibberish. you can call it "playing devil's advocate" but actually looking at the facts and both sides is the moral thing to do

@Violet Joy 1. the chances are pretty low if the gun had been dumped. they aren't low however if the gun was actively removed by the kids or someone connected to them. they were in their own neighbourhood and if they were criminally minded people, it would be something they'd probably do. i know people like this and instances similar to this, i know that things like this happen and it's not an unlikely pattern of thought or behaviour if these kids were criminally minded
2. one reason could be that he was expecting return fire if he thought that they had a gun, and wanted to make sure that they did in fact fully flee
3. again, it wouldn't be likely that witnesses would have seen the threats made if they were made, so it's not significant evidence of lack of threats made that there weren't any witnesses to them. if the kid did threaten to kill him and did actively attempt to intimidate the man by pretending he had a gun when he didn't, which is within the realm of possibility (i've actually seen this kind of behaviour in person with my own eyes), then he may actually have a case for self defense. i disagree that logic points to the story being made up. logic only says that we can't conclusively say what happened because we don't know with certainty. some people genuinely behave in the way that is portrayed in the story of the accused, it's really not uncommon

@Violet Joy none of my grammatical "errors" interfere with the coherence of what i'm saying. it also should be obvious that i clearly could capitalize the first letter of a sentence and put a period at the end if i wanted to, i'm clearly just speaking in a casual way that is appropriate for the internet. the same doesn't apply to someone who incorrectly types "it's" instead of "its", "it's" is an extra character, it's less casual, and is clearly an indication of a genuine lack of literacy.

what do you mean i was biased? i genuinely am just trying to analyze the case logically and accurately, and so i'm pointing out clear errors. again, my position isn't even that he should have been found not guilty. i'm honestly morally unclear on that, it's a grey area of morality for me as to what constitutes enough evidence for a claim of self defense. what is clear and not a grey area tho, is that most people commenting on this case are demonstrating an inappropriate level of confidence in the guilt of the accused / the innocence of the kid(s)

@Violet Joy The shotgun conspiracy he sites came from a 911 call where the caller was excited and did not mean that he saw a weapon. The 911 caller signed a sworn statement stating he never saw the teens dispose of anything. That statement was omitted in the courtroom. Using that as his defense after he has lost both a district and a state appeals court appeals - is illogical.

@Violet Joy The shotgun conspiracy he sites came from a 911 call where the caller was excited and did not mean that he saw a weapon. The 911 caller signed a sworn statement stating he never saw the teens dispose of anything. That statement was omitted in the courtroom. Using that as his defense after he has lost both a district and a state appeals court appeals - is illogical.

@Autonomous Thought
1. Let's say a shotgun had been dumped. What are the chances it would have been recovered by police? I would guess the area had been searched for evidence and evidently, they hadn't even made it completely out of the parking lot.
2. What reason would the shooter have for getting out of his vehicle to continue shooting while the car was leaving the scene?
3. Even if the kids threatened his life (which doesn't line up with witness statements), he did not clearly see a shotgun by his own admission. Considering no weapons were found in the SUV, logic points toward that part of the story being made up.

It's also fair to keep in mind that we only heard part of the story here in this video. The jury had much more information to consider in making their decision.

@Autonomous Thought I find it interesting to see grammatical errors pointed out, yet there is a clear lack of proper capitalization and punctuation in every one of your comments. I don't mind that at all; I just find it interesting.

Looking at the discussion here, it seems likely that you were biased before the whole story even came out. I understand and have seen unwarranted defense based on race, but this was not one of those cases.

@Autonomous Thought I find it interesting to see grammatical errors pointed out, yet there is a clear lack of proper capitalization and punctuation in every one of your comments. I don't mind that at all; I just find it interesting.

Looking at the discussion here, it seems likely that you were biased before the whole story even came out. I understand and have seen unwarranted defense based on race, but this was not one of those cases.

@Bay Bee My class to get my permit stated upfront - if you are involved in a shooting - you are required to call immediately. If you have to go across the street for safety - that was okay - but you had to call in a.s.a.p.

To be fair - Michael Dunn is a moron and a coward, so I will give him a pass to drive to the hotel. But once in his room - he had to call the police and report the incident. He could then say he was scared for his life and is in his room. He has no excuse for not calling from the hotel. Running is guilt!

Only a racist would tell you that he had the right to not report and drive one hundred miles away from the scene.

Alfred Indy I’m sure Autonomous Thought will come up with some really stupid convoluted reason for why he didn’t call the cops afterwards which he’ll insist is completely reasonable. Smh

Alfred Indy I’m sure Autonomous Thought will come up with some really stupid convoluted reason for why he didn’t call the cops afterwards which he’ll insist is completely reasonable. Smh

@Autonomous Thought And by the way - that shotgun conspiracy was started by a man who accidently added that maybe they were dumping a weapon. He signed a sworn statement that he never saw anything the teens had that resembled a shotgun or weapon. The defense lawyer grabbed that and used it. There was no witnesses to it or sworn statements of any kind saying that there was such a weapon. So before you try and make fun of people over logic, you better study the case so that you know where the statements came from. Yours came from a conspiracy.

@Autonomous Thought You are the one who believes there was a shotgun when the man leaves the scene and doesn't report the shooting - which is a complete failure when you have a permit to carry.

@Autonomous Thought You are the one who believes there was a shotgun when the man leaves the scene and doesn't report the shooting - which is a complete failure when you have a permit to carry.

@sleep on dirt yes, as someone really good at logic i'm especially able to recognize faulty logic

@sleep on dirt yes, as someone really good at logic i'm especially able to recognize faulty logic

Autonomous Thought im sure youd kno all about tht

Autonomous Thought im sure youd kno all about tht

@sleep on dirt how is that racism? rap is largely thug music, that's likely just an accurate description

@sleep on dirt how is that racism? rap is largely thug music, that's likely just an accurate description

not just for playing loud music. there was absolutely some kind of underlying racism here. "thug music," violent reaction to a damn teenager getting foolish. absolutely some tricky shit going on with this guy on the race front.

not just for playing loud music. there was absolutely some kind of underlying racism here. "thug music," violent reaction to a damn teenager getting foolish. absolutely some tricky shit going on with this guy on the race front.

@Danielle Calderwood yes it absolutely does matter whether or not the kids antagonized him. if they threatened to kill him and motioned as if they had a gun then it's up for debate if they, or at least the one, deserved to die. he could've not heard what they said for part of the altercation and heard another part. you people are so hysterical it's ridiculous, like just try entertaining the hypothetical that he's innocent before you form your opinion. i'm not justifying his actions, my position isn't even that he should have been found not guilty. i'm unsure on it, my position is that you people are irrationally over confident about his guilt and the kids' innocence. it's a clear sickness in a large section of society whenever it's an issue of white vs black

@Autonomous Thought Did we watch the same video?  Cause its pretty clear by the evidence that his story doesn't line up with what the other peoples accounts.  Also the evidence is also clear that he killed the kid for little to no reason.

@Autonomous Thought Did we watch the same video?  Cause its pretty clear by the evidence that his story doesn't line up with what the other peoples accounts.  Also the evidence is also clear that he killed the kid for little to no reason.

Autonomous Thought the INDEPENDENT WITNESS said he heard the defendant YELL “you’re not gonna talk to me like that!!” Is that something you say to someone holding a gun to you? I know I’m just feeding a troll but it’s late and I have nothing better to do. P.S. how’s my grammar? Did I make any mistakes?!

Autonomous Thought the INDEPENDENT WITNESS said he heard the defendant YELL “you’re not gonna talk to me like that!!” Is that something you say to someone holding a gun to you? I know I’m just feeding a troll but it’s late and I have nothing better to do. P.S. how’s my grammar? Did I make any mistakes?!

Talk about wanting to be the center of attention...

Talk about wanting to be the center of attention...

@2122 well you can believe in your fictional imaginary reality if you want and continue to derive serotonin responses without merit, i would like you to continue to do that actually. we will see how powerless we respectively are

@2122 well you can believe in your fictional imaginary reality if you want and continue to derive serotonin responses without merit, i would like you to continue to do that actually. we will see how powerless we respectively are

@Danielle Calderwood i want you to be completely honest here, do you completely trust the police when they are accusing a black person of something? you really accept what the police say as undisputed fact when the accused is black? i'm pretty sure you don't. but now in this case, the cops saying there was no gun = it's fact that there was no gun? i don't care what the cops say is fact, cops can be wrong, evidence and logic determines what is fact, not a supposed authority saying so

@Danielle Calderwood i want you to be completely honest here, do you completely trust the police when they are accusing a black person of something? you really accept what the police say as undisputed fact when the accused is black? i'm pretty sure you don't. but now in this case, the cops saying there was no gun = it's fact that there was no gun? i don't care what the cops say is fact, cops can be wrong, evidence and logic determines what is fact, not a supposed authority saying so

yet if they had had a gun in the car or even in the trunk, he prolly woulda gotten away with it

yet if they had had a gun in the car or even in the trunk, he prolly woulda gotten away with it

@2122 and they're wrong. it's also spelled "its" when you're using the word in a possessive way

@2122 and they're wrong. it's also spelled "its" when you're using the word in a possessive way

@Autonomous Thought 12 of his peers who were presented both sides of the issue in it's entirety believe you're incorrect beyond a reasonable doubt.

@Autonomous Thought 12 of his peers who were presented both sides of the issue in it's entirety believe you're incorrect beyond a reasonable doubt.

@Autonomous Thought lol I love when people say "facts and logic"

@Autonomous Thought lol I love when people say "facts and logic"

he killed him for threatening him, not playing loud music, try to keep up with facts and logic and not just your emotions. it's not proven either way that the kid did or didn't have a gun, or that the kid did or didn't threaten to kill him, or that the kid did or didn't pretend he had a gun while threatening to kill him. this case is a lot more nuanced than you're portraying and it's immoral for you to attribute more malice than is evident to the accused, just like in your imaginary scenario of events the accused is wrong for falsely attributing malice to the kid, hypocrite

I guarantee you this is not the first time he has done reckless shit with alcohol in his blood. That son probably knew his father was a shithead for many years beforehand.

I guarantee you this is not the first time he has done reckless shit with alcohol in his blood. That son probably knew his father was a shithead for many years beforehand.

@Conor Williamson yes, that is the perfect encapsulation of this case x)!

@Conor Williamson yes, that is the perfect encapsulation of this case x)!

@broquest warsneeder Randy: "Oh I'm Sorry! I THOUGHT THIS WAS AMERICA!"

@broquest warsneeder Randy: "Oh I'm Sorry! I THOUGHT THIS WAS AMERICA!"

@Diener Christi That reminds me of Randy from South Park, matter of fact this whole story does.

@Diener Christi That reminds me of Randy from South Park, matter of fact this whole story does.

was it his kid's wedding? i skipped over that i guess i thought it was a friend

was it his kid's wedding? i skipped over that i guess i thought it was a friend