I REALLY like this idea, but there's just one problem...Celestia and Luna knew Starswirl...

RandomCrack! No it’s not bc if starswirl was discord celestia would have not turned him to stone

yea, finale knew them both, in one episode

Chloe Watson This isn't a problem if Celestia and Luna knew Starswirl IT STILL is likely that he could've became Discord!

But knowing him could have been before discords uprising

then again if twilight is star swirl he can go back in time, or into the future. unlikely though, just FYI


I know it's already debunked. But there are 2 inconsistencies I've just realized that you've never mentioned in your Discord's Origins video...

1: Why would Starswirl want to spread chaos? It wouldn't make sense. Unless if he accidentally cursed himself. He is into making spells, but why would he make an attempt to conquer over Equestria?

2: Since his magic allows him to do anything, why can't he just went back to his original form as a pony? If Discord can change his appearance like in the episode three's a crowd he turned himself blue to see if Twilight still trusts him, or in the return of harmony episode where he turned himself into a butterfly to make and "attempt" to corrupt Fluttershy. He can just change back into himself as Starswirl and pretend the change didn't happen and research himself on private to not worry anyone.


Am I the only one who wants to walk up to Discord and say "Star Swirl!" And see if he answers?


@Some random person just like the fire nation becoming too greedy right?

but everything changed when the season 7 finale attacked

To be honest, I really disliked Star Swirl's characterization in that Season 7 finale.  His personality, actions, and character all made no sense from the little we heard about him in myths and legends.

Plus, he was the probably the most hyped up character in MLP and his return was so unbelievably underwhelming.  What they did with Star Swirl in the show was one of the biggest wasted opportunities I've ever seen in the show.


I like this theory, but I agree with KP. Discord is NOT Starswirl.


I love how after season 7 it was just rubbed into Sawtooth's face that Star Swirl and Discord are completely different characters XD


And a few season later,
Star swirl appears
Him: WHAT IN THE NAME OF CELESTIA JUST HAPPENED!?!?


This is a good theory, however I recommend reading up on the novelization of "The Journal of the Two Sisters" by Little, Brown.   The two sisters were inaugurated as the princesses of equestrian shortly after the events of Hearthswarming Eve and were personally selected by Starswirl the Bearded.    I'm not saying that it's not possible for Discord to be Starswirl the Bearded, but I am saying that based on what officially canonized facts we have on hand the transformation took place much later.    In fact the journal stops before any of their canonized conflicts with Sombra, Tirek, or Discord.   So if the transformation did take place, it most likely did so some time after they stopped writing in the journal.  If I were to take a guess I'd say it happened after the defeat of Sombra but before Discord officially began to fool around with Equestria.    And jumping into headcanon territory for a moment, I'd say it's linked directly or indirectly to the unfinished spell from the Season 3 Finale Episode 13 "Magical Mystery Cure".  The only real wrench in the cog would be the fact that Tirek and Scorpan (much as daHunter3000 stated) came to Equestria after Discord's incarceration in stone.  That doesn't mean there isn't a possibility it just means that there is some mystery shrouding it that makes it difficult to say with 100% certainty.


While now it's confirmed Starswirl is not discord :|

XC aw man

finale changed all. This theory too. the Discord and starsworl in ONE episode.

Goodbye perfect theory ;<

XPurple Myth :3 I know. My friend told me about this. I was like well,"you'd think that he'd tell the girls, I AM STAR SWIRL


There’s no way this could happen unless star swirl also had a personality swap


While this theory seems good, I do have to bring up one point. Celestia said Starswirl did not <b>understand</b> friendship like Twilight did. Celestia never said he didn't have friends.

While this theory seems good, I do have to bring up one point. Celestia said Starswirl did not *understand* friendship like Twilight did. Celestia never said he didn't have friends.


I think Discord was one of those winter-making horse things(from hearths-warming eve), but Star-Swirl was making a different spell that makes physical appearances change. Never mind, I was trying.🐴


Starswirl the Bearded was the one who befriended Tireks brother. That was while Celestia was in power, with Luna. So, timeline broken.

The new Age of peace was after Nightmare moon was banished, not after Discord.


The phrase "long before" implies more than a few decades. At minimum, it would most likely be 50 years, or an Earth-time equivalent. Note that Clover is the STUDENT of Starswirl. This means that Starswirl must have been an adult by the time of Equestria's founding, plus the time added by Spike's narration and the time that Starswirl would need to make himself immortal and I have to ask, how long would this guy have lived before becoming immortal? Frankly, I'm not convinced he could have been alive long enough to become Discord before dying of old age.

Not to mention that turning himself into Discord via a spell that shuffles other people's destinies around seems far-fetched to me and the sheer difficulty one would have just making an immortality spell.


I wouldn't mind this theory being true. It would definitely add a layer of feels to Discord's reformation and Celestia's reasoning for wanting to reform him, assuming Celestia was around/young at the time that Star Swirl existed and/or was...well, maybe not friends but on good terms with him.

There's so much fanfiction that could spring forth from these ideas if it doesn't already exist.


This theory would also explain the whole"a thousand years ago, everything went to crap under the sisters due to villains and dealing with them is postponed untill later" trope. Maybe, because Discord was still Starswirl on the inside, he used his powers to hold other threats to Equestria at bay, similar to the second season of Gurren Lagann.  Then, the inexperienced sisters who have yet to fully realize their potential and don't completely understand the Elements, deal with everything Discord was holding back because he isn't around to do it for them. Maybe that is the true reason Celestia wanted to reform Discord. She realized the truth and decided it would be in Equestria's best interest to bring back and re purpose the force that once kept it safe from foreign threats before the sisters. After all, if your kingdom is your playground, you wouldn't want mean neighbors strolling by and trashing it when you're having so much fun there, right?


Okay, so I totally just had a thought about the whole "John de Lancie doesn't know who Starswirl is" bit. Assuming he's not being deceptive there is a way this could be true. While if season 5 is being made you would expect him to know, what if the story of Starswirl isn't in this season or even the next? What if the MLP movie will involve Star Swirl/Discord's backstory? Think about it. The movie's probably in some pretty early stages as far as production goes, or if not it was at the time this was made nearly 20 months ago. While the writers did have this idea, Lancie was not debriefed on this because he had not yet been called in to employ his talents on the voice acting part.

Oh man. I just made myself even more hyped for a movie that won't be out in...what is it...TWO YEARS?!


Honestly, I'm glad Discord wasn't Starswirl. I like Discord as he is


I think that when Starswirl was turned into discord, he was kept concealed: by the princesses  or otherwise, and then ponies just remembered him as the wonderful and noble magician who one day wondered off. No one knowing that instead of just leaving and never coming back, he was transformed into the mismatched creature-soon to be known as discord.


The thing i we have NEVER been told that a pony CAN actually change their appearance so much that they become another being.

Take Nightmare Moon, Luna may have become her BUT Nightmare was STILL a pony

Twilight, she became an alicorn princess but all she had added to her was a pair of wings.

The Siren's were changed into humans because they were sent to the human world (just like Twilight is changed when she goes to the human world)

There is NOWHERE that is stated that some personality spell (or anything else) can CHANGE the actual form of a pony without, at least, their very form, staying the way it is (as I said, like with Luna) so Discord being Star Swirl and Star Swirl being Discord makes no sense at all. We were told Discord was a Draconequus and whilst he has the head of a pony that means nothing for a few reasons and one being that he is in a world that is run by ponies as the dominant species so yes, he would have a pony aspect about him somewhere but in that same regard he also has a claw of a dragon, an antler and wings as well.

Also, there is also the fact that the spell Twilight read out changed the DESTINIES of her friends NOT their personalities, we just saw them in bad situations where they were not showing their real personalities but if you sat down Rarity you may have seen her be interested in fashion if you were talking to her over a muffin or talking to Fluttershy in the spa and see she loves animals. If you sat them down in normal situations where you could just chat away then how do you know that they wouldn't tell you what they REALLY wished they wanted to do but couldn't for obvious reasons?

So yes, I don't think Star Swirl is Discord and Discord is NOT star Swirl, because not only for the above that I said but because this is Twilight, she is a MASSIVE bookworm, heck, she probably is the queen of books, if this was lost to pony history SHE would of read up about it somewhere, maybe not a lot, but she would of seen hints or something that maybe would have stopped her to question something only to do some more digging, remember what Celestia said to her  back in the first episode of season 1? She had to get out of the library and make friends, meaning, she LIVED in the library! It seemed like that unless she went out for 5 minutes of fresh air or got something to eat she never left the library and she was in Canterlots library, one of the biggest libraries in the land, so if she didn't pick up a single hint, no matter how small, from all the books she had read then I can't see Discord and Star Swirl being one in the same she she still loves Star Swirl for the pony he is.

+TheLostLenore We actually don't have any proof that the spirit that took over Luna was a pony in the first place. Since we don't know how it came to be. Only a rough idea of what it becomes when it inhabits another pony's body like Luna's.

@TheLostLenore How about when Fluttershy turned into that horrifying bat/pony hybrid? I think the only reason she didn't transform to the same extent as Discord is because Twilight reversed the spell before it could get to that point. Also I think it's important to note that Twilight seemed to accidentally cast the spell on the ELEMENTS OF HARMONY... not her friends. That did have some physical changes. And, being so connected to their Elements, it explains why it would screw with their destinies so much.

@Chloe Gilson Breezies are still technically ponies, they are smaller ponies with longer legs (but then Celestia has longer legs also then a normal pony so...) but they just have antennae and more fairy sort of wings so once again, still pony form (a different sort of pony look about them but they could still be classed as a sort of pony and thus they haven't actually changed from a pony into a cow or a donkey or something, the essentially are still ponies even if they are tiny.

What about when Twilight turned the Mane 6 into Breezies?


The only problem is that now Starswirl is back in Equestria. But lets not dissmiss this theory. We all know that Starswirl can make a time travel spell to be in two places at once. Maybe that's what he used to be discord while he was in Limbo. Also, random question. Does anyone else think that Starswirl looks insanely similar to Albus Dumbledore from Harry Potter, or is that just me?


So if this toes in with Twilight being Clover The Clever, then Discord is Twilights mentor at some point in the timeline. You know what? This actually supports that theory since Twilight looks up to Starswirl and would want to be taught by him by going into the past. Then she decides to live in the past as Clover and eventually witnesses Starswirl's accidental transformation. And this also explains why he wasn't shunned from society, because Clover would have taken measures to keep it a secret. Of course, this is assuming that Clover stayed with Starswirl, and whether she did is up for debate.

The Tempestrom And The Aftermath Thereof


I generally consider Discord to be CREATED by Starswirl- then again, I have a complex headcanon that G4 is the distant, post-apocalyptic future of G1.5 and that magic REALLY did exist in that time, but it kept itself hidden. Starswirl was like Sunset Shimmer, and Celestia was one of his only friends- in this time, Alicorns were actually more common than pegasi, and Changelings were more or less part of Unicorn society. Starswirl was a bit of a mad scientist, and his special talent was trickery/bluffing, but he was rather smart. When he was a colt, Starswirl discovered he was destined to end the world, and thus got interested in changing destinies. He created Discord as an artificial biological intelligence, and Discord ultimately sent the world into chaos. Starswirl fled underground, having already discovered his own way to immortality. Celestia and Luna defeated Discord using the Elements of Harmony, and, prevent keep the ponies of Equestia safe, Celestia and Luna decide to keep the truth a secret. Discord's powers left Celestia and Luna the only alicorns, and Celestia's actual special talent is leadership- inspiring others to stand with her, whilst Luna's true one is prophecy, but they're keeping up a lie so that nopony finds out the truth and gets hurt like before. Celestia didn't want her friends (Starswirl, Clover, Cookie, and Hurricane) who lead to Discord's creation to be remembered in a negative light, as they were still her friends, so she decided to honor them alongside her friends that helped her do good (Pansy and Platinum) as well as her and Luna's favorite dessert restaurant franchise as ponies who helped found Equestria in a story she and Luna made up. Also, Smart Cookie was Starswirl's little sister, and Starlight Glimmer is her descendent.


I highly doubted that Discord had any relation to Star Swirl, let alone be Star Swirl at first.  I even believed this before the Season 4 finale.  I honestly believe Discord and Star Swirl are two completely different individuals.


I love your theory! But i am not really sure about Discord (after being turned into Star Swirl) waited years and years and then decided to have some fun and take over Equstria. I think that it was more that after his form swiched he couldn't remember who he was before and got kind of kurupted. Like when Twilight's friends cutie marks swich by the same spell, they didn't remember the pony they were before, or that they had a different cutie mark before. And i think the same problem happened with Discord/Star Swirl! Like if you agree!!!😜


Just one question....<br>Howcould a personality swap spell end up changing someone's appearance? Mental spells I don't think could become a physical spell. If this happened to Star Swirl, then his personality would have changed, just like the mane six, not change him into a completely different species. If this is what happened, why didn't it happen to the mane six? Not to be rude, but I think your theory may have some plot holes in it, bro.

Just one question....
Howcould a personality swap spell end up changing someone's appearance? Mental spells I don't think could become a physical spell. If this happened to Star Swirl, then his personality would have changed, just like the mane six, not change him into a completely different species. If this is what happened, why didn't it happen to the mane six? Not to be rude, but I think your theory may have some plot holes in it, bro.

Jessie Pants your life has some plot holes in it :)

@jewel jammer But what if he didn't have any friends to change? Remember, when Twilight cast the spell, it altered the Elements of Harmony. So we can probably assume that it was a spell to bring ponies together in harmony, right? However, Starswirl did not have any friends ("...because Starswirl did not understand friendship...") OR the Elements, so the spell could have affected him instead. Discord also did not understand friendship (until the Season 4 finale), and he is the epitome of disharmony. As for the issue of Discord being imprisoned while Starswirl was presumably around, what is one of Starswirl's (AND Discord's) specialties? Time travel. Twilight was "always" meant to be an Alicorn, right? That's why Celestia was always watching over her. So, with that logic, Starswirl was "always" meant to become Discord, effectively causing a time loop. A big question is, where is Starswirl now? Celestia never mentions his whereabouts, he is never seen (only mentioned in history books), and we know that he is proficient in time-travel. What if Starswirl turned into Discord, went back in time, and started the whole "Discord vs Celestia and Luna" business? This would cause the timeline to move forward. Somewhere in the timeline, Starswirl disappears. Unless it can be proven where Starswirl went, or if Starswirl shows up in a future episode, I'm sticking by the theory that Discord and Starswirl are the same being.

agree'd, i'd think it would change the ponies around him, not himself.

@Jessie Pants  I agree that a mental spell would not just become a physical spell otherwise the mane 6 would have swapped looks. also this theory is disproven by the book The Journal Of The Two Sisters. Read it and weep

If she cast it on the elements, then it switched the magic witch they were connected to, so when star swirl did it, it swapped his magic with the inverse- magic of chaos and discord..... hence creating discord.

@Jessie Pants The spell wasn't a personality swap as much as it was a swap of destinies. The Mane Six's personalities stayed exactly the same... The only difference is that they were trying to complete each others' roles.

Another point is that Twilight didn't directly cast the spell on her friends. I think she actually cast it on the Elements of Harmony by accident. Since the Mane Six are strongly connected to their respective Elements, I can see how that would screw up their cutie marks.

Also, if we think back to the episode "Bats!" when Fluttershy turned into that terrifying bat/pony hybrid... Her absorbing the desire shouldn't imply a physical change either. Perhaps it was her currently mentality that caused the transformation... and the very same thing could have happened to Discord.

Well, ponies are peaceful creatures, so only having starswirls being turned into one by a magic spell gone wrong is possible.

It's not even a hypothesis. Discord is the solitary example; you have no variables. In fact, you cannot prove that it happened to Discord for sure, so you just can't say it now.

@Timothy Domingo  Trixie was Evil, sure, but she wanted CONTROL over ponies, not everyone to be in chaos. Discord obviously has no control other others

Um, no. A pony's cutie mark is their special talent, not their personality.

Sent from my LG Mobile

+Jay D. A pony's cutiemark is their personality, it's who they are. When Discord took the mane 6's cutiemarks, they forgot who they were as a person and became someone else.

That's highly unlikely. What about Trixie?

@Jessie Pants Well, maybe the Draconaquis.. Dradonoquis? I can't spell it, are ponies that are Evil and mischievous, or become that way, that were transformed into what discord is. His spell simply changed his personality to that of Evil and Mischief instead of one of Good and Order (I KNOW THIS GOS AGAINST MY OTHER THEROY! IT'S JUST A RESPONSE!).

@Jessie Pants It didn't change their personalities though, just their cutie marks and probably memories associated with said marks. It could absolutely have changed Starswirl into a chaotic monster, because it caused chaos in the ponies.

@Jessie Pants Wellllll since he didn't have friends or anyone close to switch personalities with, I'm guessing the spell must have changed his appearance because if you think about it, the parts of the bodies to different things which would make it seem like personalities to be switched? I know this sounds weird but I don't even know anymore...I have a great feeling that his theory is right tho, because the proof provided connected all the links.

@***** Mind making a more condensed version of that? Or at least a bulleted list?

Maybe Starswirl intentionally changed his look after he changed his personality knowing that he would be recognized and his studies would be shunned.

@xSASS1993x Alex Simmons Cutiemarks are more of a personality thing than a physical one. At least, kind of.

@xSASS1993x Alex Simmons Well 5 of the 6's

Dont You Remember when the mane six's cutie marks were switched? That Was Physical owo

@Alma Martinez Notice she wasn't an alicorn when she was transported to the spirit plain. If the spell was meant to make somepony an alicorn I would think it would've happened instantly and not require a trip down memory lane.

@tetsiga45XxX Really? I mean, yeah it's a bit weird that Celestia is in that celestial (huehue) plain along with Twilight, but she triggered the transportation and as far as I know the magic that turned her into an alicorn came from her body.

Still though, why else would Star Swirl need that spell? Like Celestia had said, he didn't understand friendship all that well, and it's safe to say that maybe he caused at least some sort of chaos when he casted his unfinished spell (if he ever did).

@Alma Martinez Actually the alicornization fo Twilight was due to Celestia making her one, not the spell she completed.

Like Tetsiga said, there are some instances where mental spells became physical ones in the show.

Maybe the spell he used switched him up as a sort of punishment or experiment gone wrong. I mean, look at what the spell did, it switched up the destinies of people, and when Twilight completed it she became an alicorn. Maybe Starswirl was trying to get more power by turning into an alicorn with that spell, but it went awry because it was worded wrong.

@Jessie Pants I actually don't think he is. I was just pointing out a fact. But thank you for being respectful.

@tetsiga45XxX You have some pointers, but I just don't think I can believe that Star Swirl the Bearded can be Discord. I'll respect your thoughts, though :{P

Actually, mental spells have become physical ones. Recall how Twilight and Fluttershy's attempt to make it so fruit vampire bats wouldn't eat the fruit resulted in Fluttershy basically changing species. Granted that may have been two magics working together but still.

i think i remember discord created a spell to change shape or something. if he swapped his personality, giving him more powers, immortality and some sort of insanity, he most likely wouldve used this spell to adapt his form to his new personality.<br>or the spell just happened to cast itself and changed him, and because he found it looked better he kept it or soemthing.

i think i remember discord created a spell to change shape or something. if he swapped his personality, giving him more powers, immortality and some sort of insanity, he most likely wouldve used this spell to adapt his form to his new personality.
or the spell just happened to cast itself and changed him, and because he found it looked better he kept it or soemthing.

I quite literally cannot understand what you are trying to tell me in that last sentence of yours.

No it's not in girly voice it's eqestria anything can happen bake to my voice ITS THE NEXT SEASON IS DISCORD STAR SWIRL NO SO Y SAY THAT!!!!👾


Considering the fact that Twilight was able to release her friends after she completed the spell, Discord most likely would've been reverted to his original state as Starswirl, also, when Starswirl was alive, there were not ponies who represented the elements, so when he messed up the spell, the elements themselves would just be switched. But this would mean that the elements today are different than the ones before Starswirl wrote the spell, and maybe time has caused equestria to adapt?


I was kind of hoping for this to be canon, but now after reading the comments, I think the pony of shadows theory is even better, because this would mean Star Swirl will not only turn up at some point in the show but also will he have his own personality... let's see what will be canon


the unfinished spell only changed the talents of the mane 6 through the elements of harmony but never physically changed the stones or elements and discord can change living creatures physically and mentally and in season 5 the antagonist for episodes 1 and 2 was an average unicorn that could take away a ponys cutie mark and talents altogether and if an average unicorn can do what the unfinished spell could it is very unlikely that the unfinished spell was what might have caused discord. my theory rests as someone stronger than starswirl came along and forced him to help him/her into making them stronger but instead caused them to mutate and go insane


I love that theory,but how do you explain that Tirek knew Discord as powerfull spirit of disharmony and at the same time his brother was befriending Starswil? And Discord didn't knew about Scorpans and Tirek broken relationship ? As long we not assume that whole Discords betrayal was set up...


I have a Theory.
Knowing how Discord acts, I believe that, at least in a metaphorical way he is Chaos personnified.
Knowing how Starswirled acted, we could say he worked a lot towards Order in Equestria.
Could they be two opposite parts of the same force ?
Perhaps then Discord would have appeared and disappeared following the same times as Star Swirl, potentially meaning that Star Swirl would resurface sooner or later.


Also I recently watched another review by Pony reviewing on the same subject and she brought up some good points also supporting this theory, which was that star swirled the bearded and discord both have the same yellow color magic as seen in "return of harmony" part 2 when discord is picks up applejack with his magic and also that they both have access to different dimensions as seen in "make new friends but keep discord"  and "Rainbow Rocks" in the sirens backstory.


"Nothing in the show can prove this theory wrong"<br>Well, ignoring that the entire basis for the theory is a vaguely interpreted hoax, just wait ~3 years for "Shadow Play" when we find out what happened to Star Swirl. That episode takes care of a lot of loose ends.

"Nothing in the show can prove this theory wrong"
Well, ignoring that the entire basis for the theory is a vaguely interpreted hoax, just wait ~3 years for "Shadow Play" when we find out what happened to Star Swirl. That episode takes care of a lot of loose ends.


2:57 Yeah, I see how that might work..... Except you're acting like you know exactly how the magic would react if in a different situation than when Twilight cast it! Yes, it's a possible explanation. However, it could also target based on proximity as a fallback. Or, maybe it would pick its target(s) based on magic--if they have strong magic (like the Princesses or Starswirl). However, it doesn't have to do anything at all!

2:57 Yeah, I see how that might work..... Except you're acting like you know _exactly_ how the magic would react if in a different situation than when Twilight cast it! Yes, it's a possible explanation. However, it could also target based on proximity as a fallback. Or, maybe it would pick its target(s) based on magic--if they have strong magic (like the Princesses or Starswirl). However, it doesn't have to do anything at all!


2:59-My thoughts on KimPossible's objection is that history is written by the victors.  Celestia could have covered up Star Swirl's transformation into Discord choosing to remember Star Swirl for the pony that he was.  It happened in Star Wars with Darth Vader.

2:59-My thoughts on KimPossible's objection is that history is written by the victors.  Celestia could have covered up Star Swirl's transformation into Discord choosing to remember Star Swirl for the pony that he *was*.  It happened in Star Wars with Darth Vader.

@CrossoverManiac aw, i was just about to make a Starwars comparison, you beat me to it  xD

Not to defend the bad writing, but in "The Diary of the Two Sisters" light novel,

SPOILER ALERT!!!

 when Celestia and Luna got their cutie marks and took over the duties of raising the sun and moon, Starswirl aged backwards.  IIRC, unicorns that took on the duties of raising the sun and moon aged faster.  I believe having Luna and Celestia taking over restored Starswirl to his actual chronological age (my theory).

@neorenamon  I know this is really old, makes me wonder why I never got any notice of it till now, but there is something to think about.

In hearth warming eve, the events took place long before Celestia and Luna ruled...

And Tirek invaded while Celestia and Luna ruled...

However, that contridicts eachother, thanks to Starswirl!

When Tirek invaded, his brother was meant to have befriended a 'Young" starswirl, but in Hearth Warming Eve, it has Starswirl being old with Clover the Clever as his apprentice.

So how could Celestia and Luna have ruled, inprisoned Tirek, then 30-60 years later have it be 'Looooong' before their rule, and have all the tribes split and Equestria not even exist yet?

ps. My guess, they wanted to shoe horn him in somehow in the past, and didn't have an actual timeline of the past. So just... Stuck him there, without checking if it actually fits the lore.

I said "claims" so I know it was a fake. But the mage Meadowbrook did exist, as Twilight recalls him having 8 magical artifacts.

@mathybrain8 The Staff of Sameness was a fake. A prop to cover up the fact Starlight Glimmer still had her cutie mark and her magical powers.

@100aegir I'm aware this is old. I just want to give fresh perspective with more recent evidence.<br>That could be the mage Meadowbrook, the pony Starlight claims made the Staff of Sameness.

@100aegir I'm aware this is old. I just want to give fresh perspective with more recent evidence.
That could be the mage Meadowbrook, the pony Starlight claims made the Staff of Sameness.

@neorenamon I don't know, maybe it has something to do with the fact that they actually said that he befriended some ponies (meaning multiple) and as they say that they show Scorpan and Starswirl the bearded befriending each other. Now, before you say "That could be any unicorn with a huge beard and wearing robes with stars on it", well not according to the show so far, as no one else has been shown to wear those clothes other then in tribute to starswirl the bearded.

@100aegir If the young unicorn in Tirek's backstory is Starswirl, then why did they only call him "a young unicorn" instead of "the legendary Starswirl the Bearded"?  I don't think Celestia or Luna had ever known Starswirl while he was young.  One must assume that he wasn't the only bearded unicorn in history.

@***** And the theory of Starswirl being Discord was pretty much debunked by the origin story of Tirek, since Scorpan became friends with Starswirl while Celestia and Luna were in power, aka after Discord´s rule but before Nightmare Moon. This means that Discord and Starswirl cannot be the same person by the simple fact that Discord was frozen in stone with no ability to escape from it at the time that Scorpan and Tirek came along, and the meeting with scorpan and Starswirl happened.

Indeed. And she has done this before. Five times. That we know of. She has covered up, in order that we see them in the show: Nightmare Moon, Discord, Changelings, Crystal Empire, and Tirek and the land he comes from.

She has covered up many things before, why not the origins of Discord. But there is something else. Rewatch the part with Spike again. LOOOOOOOONG before Celestia. We don't actually know how long it was since Hearth Warming Eve, when Starswirl was alive, till Discord ruled. Nor how long he ruled for.

But we can count something. We know Celestia has ruled for at least 1001 years. When Spike says 'Long before' he is probably compairing 'long' to how long Celestia ruled. So it was say 100 years, would be 'just before' 1000 years, would be 'Not long before' and anything 1500+ would be 'Long before'.

We also don't know how old Starswirl is, how long a pony can live for or anything. He must be old tho, because eternal winter and war constantly doesn't give a Unicorn much time to make usefull spells for the ponies. Neither the moving to a new land and rebuilding everything from the ground up. Could have been 20-50 years, if not longer for everything to settle down enough for someone to go back to creating spells.

Too much time that we don't know about, where ANYTHING could have happened. But also, think of this. They SAY starswirl came from before Discord, but from what little we say of Discord's rule.... Well... I don't think people would be taking the time to write down the History. Discord could have ruled for 16548961321684895132106548431634471230314516346520 years, and no one would know. In that time I doubt History would have been saved and tucked away in some corner untouched by Discord at all.

Finally, here is something else to think about.... Writing the spell would only happen while he was working on it, or completed successfully. If it was a failure he wouldn't write the spell down. When Twilight 'completed' the spell, do you remember what Celestia said? The reason Twilight is not a princess? Celestia said: "She created NEW magic"

Who is to say Starswirl didn't also complete it and created new magic. But without friends that magic was wild and... Chaotic. Chaotic enough to control him, change him, and take him over completely, and didn't write down the 'completed' spell.


what if discord was actually an egg (such as a embryo dragon) and was next to a few other undeveloped creatures that star-swirl had taken in, and befriended and used the spell meet them to figure out how to move their bodies in the right growth track, but ended up mixing them together, and discord emerged a while later?


To set the record straight, Celestia said that Star Swirl did not know friendship "like Twilight did".  This means that he may have had friends (or more likely, close acquaintances).  Also, many of his "friends" were most likely magical/non-magical creatures other than ponies with cutie marks (i.e. Scorpan, griffins, phoenixes, manticores, dragons, hydras, bats, birds, bears, etc.).

Now consider this, what if Star Swirl cast his incomplete spell and it started to effect the other magical/non-magical creatures he considered his "friends"?  Griffins, phoenixes, manticores, dragons, hydras, bats, birds, and bears don't have cutie marks/destinies to switch around.  What if it effected their personal, mental, and/or physical attributes instead (i.e. claws, fangs, scales, tails, wings, horns, longevity/re-birth, magic, etc.)?  If Star Swirl saw this "magical accident" happening and then tried to step in to stop it, who's to say that he may not have been adversely effected by it too.  The result: a creature with all of combined attributes of multiple magical/non-magical creatures and Star Swirl's vast magical knowledge and prowess (i.e. Discord).  This "magical accident" could have drastically altered Star Swirl's mental state in the process, which would explain why Discord acts/thinks the way he does.  However, if you look closely, most of Discord's actions to date have had some degree of impact on Twilight and her friends' ultimate destinies.

The reason why no pony ever made the connection between Star Swirl and Discord was because Celestia and Luna used their   Princess authority to keep any pony from finding out (i.e. history is only written by the victors).  Star Swirl was Celestia and Luna's mentor and friend, so of course they would want to protect his good name after Discord's "rampage".
(1) Celestia and Luna quickly stop Discord's "rampage" by sealing him in stone by using the Elements of Harmony (ref: S4-E2).  Star Swirl created the Tree of Harmony (and thus the Elements of Harmony, the magical mystery box, Twilight's castle, the magical map, etc.) and told Celestia and Luna about it and where to find it.  In S4-E2, Celestia mentions part of this to Luna BEFORE they confront Discord!
(2) Celestia and Luna set up the "traveling museum" of Star Swirl's adventures and positive exploits to remind the public of all of the great things he had accomplished.
(3) Celestia and Luna could have easily commanded all ponies who may have witnessed Star Swirl's transformation into Discord to keep silent, and take the secret to their respective graves.  Remember, this all happened over 1,000 years ago and before Luna was banished to the moon, so by the time Twilight and her friends were even born, none of the ponies who may have witnessed the event would still be alive (except for Celestia and Luna).
(4) After Luna was banished to the moon, Celestia moved/rebuilt her castle in Canterlot, and dedicated an entire library/wing to Star Swirl.  Keep in mind that the library/wing is shown to be guarded and (possibly) heavily restricted inside the castle.  However, since Twilight is Celestia's apprentice, she was obviously granted access to the library/wing.

If you have any questions about this or my thoughts on where Star Swirl may have originated, please let me know.  (Hint: the Elements of Harmony, the Tree of Harmony, and Twilight's Crystal Castle are your clues.)


Just a little more evidence: Starswirl's unfinished spell swapped around the Elements of Harmony. Seems an awful lot familiar to what Discord did in Return of Harmony. And Starswirl having no friends? Same with Discord.


I disagree, amd here is why:<br>Star Swirl a Bearded must have known about the Elements of Harmony when he wrote the spell in Magical Mystery Cure. However, when Celestia and Luna went against Discord for the first time, he questioned what the elements were. If Discord was Star Swirl a Bearded in the past, he would have known what the elements were.

I disagree, amd here is why:
Star Swirl a Bearded must have known about the Elements of Harmony when he wrote the spell in Magical Mystery Cure. However, when Celestia and Luna went against Discord for the first time, he questioned what the elements were. If Discord was Star Swirl a Bearded in the past, he would have known what the elements were.


+TheBronyNotion
I have a theory that Starswirl's spell actually swapped Celestia's and Luna's cutie marks, perhaps as well as his own body. The spell is supposed to change the elements of harmony, right? And Celestia and Luna were the carriers of the elements of harmony.
It could explain part of why Luna went batshit evil over nobody appreciating the night: Because she wasn't really the one who was supposed to tend to it, and so nobody felt like it was good enough to cherish.
Luna is also full of energy, much like the sun, while Celestia is always calm and quiet, like the moon. Luna takes a more direct approach to handling citizens, like the sun's direct rays, but Celestia is much more passive, like how the moon's position in the sky directs the ocean currents.


To disprove this (as much as I wish it were true) the journal of the two sisters was actually released as canon. One of the last entries indicates that Starswirl lost his magic upon attempting to lower the moon. It was at the same time that Luna and Celestia earned their cutie marks by discovering their own ability to raise and lower the moon and sun. This is show canon, not comic canon. So Starswirl lost his ability to use magic before Discord's arrival. It is much more likely that he died of old age. It also states that Starswirl was present for the princesses coronation.

That doesn't leave out the possibility that he may have attempted to regain his magic and became a draconequus in the process. After all, there are material forms of magic as Zecora well knows. The draconequus are known as a mysterious race. As far as we know, Discord is the only one of his kind. Lets say he became desperate... a (completely made up on the spot) legend held that one who drinks a brew comprised of a dragon's talon, a gryphon's claw, a Pegasus's feather, and a sea serpent's scale could attain the magical power of a god... at the cost of one's sanity. However, the ingredients, alone, shouldn't be enough... there is one relic of the past that holds promise, though. The alicorn amulet. Amplifies a ponies magic... maybe it was used as a catalyst to create this brew.  The theory holds no ground in anything the show mentions aside from convenient items and dates, but it is an interesting thought that i can't think of an argument against as of yet.


I'm going to resay my theory because i missed some key elements that cause some disharmony in my mind.
I believe that discord is star swirl and that star swirl is Luna's dad but not just that but he was the one who made the prophecies and helped Luna escape but was disguised as the stars.
Reasons? Well clearly star swirl is not an alicorn or is he? He process the powers of alicorns with he banish people and have the ability to make holes into different dimensions which only someone of great power can do. Plus he would be hiding he wings though there is a picture of him lifting up his cape. But who else can send ponies into different dimensions? DISCORD! I do agree the star swirl accidentally made him self discord because he had no friends (he was hiding the fact that he was an alicorn) .
Now moving on for why he is Luna's dad, in many picture of fan art we see Luna's and Celestia's parents, the dad was the night and mom day, and who was before the princesses, was powerful like the princesses and wears a cape with stars and moons on it and could possibly be an alicorn, STAR SWIRL!
Now onto Luna's escape and the prophecies. My first thought was that he loved Luna and didn't know what she did so when he heard what happened he helped Luna escape but as the stars ( seeing that he might of been the first ruler of the night). And well being all powerful he watched what was happening and wrote them down and they soon became prophecies. But how did he time travel by 1000 years, the same way twilight did, i mean it is his spell, but when twilight did it, i pretty sure, she wasn't an alicon or powerful. But Star Swirl was.
That's my theory, hope you had fun reading. <3

I'm going to resay my theory because i missed some key elements that cause some disharmony in my mind.
I believe that discord is star swirl and that star swirl is Luna's dad but not just that but he was the one who made the prophecies and helped Luna escape but was disguised as the *stars*.
Reasons? Well clearly star swirl is not an alicorn or is he? He process the powers of alicorns with he banish people and have the ability to make holes into different dimensions which only someone of great power can do. Plus he would be hiding he wings though there is a picture of him lifting up his cape. But who else can send ponies into different dimensions? DISCORD! I do agree the star swirl accidentally made him self discord because he had no friends (he was hiding the fact that he was an alicorn) .
Now moving on for why he is Luna's dad, in many picture of fan art we see Luna's and Celestia's parents, the dad was the night and mom day, and who was before the princesses, was powerful like the princesses and wears a cape with stars and moons on it and could possibly be an alicorn, STAR SWIRL!
Now onto Luna's escape and the prophecies. My first thought was that he loved Luna and didn't know what she did so when he heard what happened he helped Luna escape but as the *stars* ( seeing that he might of been the first ruler of the night). And well being all powerful he watched what was happening and wrote them down and they soon became prophecies. But how did he time travel by 1000 years, the same way twilight did, i mean it is his spell, but when twilight did it, i pretty sure, she wasn't an alicon or powerful. But Star Swirl was.
That's my theory, hope you had fun reading. <3


Personally I think that Discord is a natural force. His status as the SPIRIT of Disharmony suggests that he is tied with the world (or if the comics can be believed the MLP universe itself more on this later) of MLP itself. Perhaps this is concurrent with the parents of Celestia and Luna creating the world in the comics. Discord when then come to naturally oppose this newfound order.


In my view, I see it this way: Discord and Q from Star Trek is the same, are the same? I don't know how to word that, but you get my point, right? The description of the Q in Star Trek is that they are a race of multi-dimensional beings that can take the shape of ANY life form, but typically humanoid MALE. Q and Discord seem to have the same characteristics to me, and that is my argument, I disagree with both sides of this argument, but respectively, if there is a direct piece of evidence that debunks this, than I'm happy to accept it.


Imagine that star swirl really was discord. The fluttercord thing would be all over the place O-o


Yes, the season 7 finally shows that star swirl did in fact disappear, but he was banishing his friend to a different dimension so as to not reek havoc on equestria. he's been in a different dimension this whole time. Yes,I realize this was posted, like,a year ago, but I had to say something :3


There's one whole in your timeline... In the comics, Celestia knew Starswirl. They created the magic mirror portal together. He was also apparently around until awhile after Luna's banishment.


Hm. Hearth's Warming Eve dates Starswirl as pre-Hearthfire, as he's Clover's mentor. Still don't know where alicorns come from. Starswirl is not mentioned in HWE, which focuses on the power players in each nation - I'd guess he either retreated to hermitage, perished of age, or 'vanished' at or before the arrival of Windigoes. Starswirl having dealt with Scorpan and Tirek in the past would probably have been able to figure those things out - unless his knowledge of friendship, though enough for Scorpan, was insufficient to repel Windigoes.
Here's my headcannon BLAM
Starswirl retreated into hermitage after helping Scorpan understand not-being-a-jerk, then trained Clover the Clever, who rose in power in Unicornia.
Starswirl remained behind when the Great Migrations occurred, researching deep magic and the power of the legendary Alicorns.
I'm skipping the whole 'Tirek knows not of Twilight but is totes familiar with the other three, even though Cadance wasn't an Alicorn until Twilight was alive - and Twilight's princess-ness has been widely publicized...' thing
Starswirl unlocks the secret of Alicorn Magic, and somehow either clones/grows Celestia and Luna or helps his young apprentices realize their true power as Alicorns. I'm leaning towards the former. Raised to unite the tribes, as Starswirl still hopes they're alive somewhere, the Heavenly Twins are also a failsafe against the loss of Unicorn magic governing the sun and moon. They begin their journey in search of Equestria, though whether Starswirl lives to see them set out is uncertain.
Discord, a completely unrelated entity with power comparable to anything you'd care to name, finds Equestria and sets up shop. Tirek seems to have known him before, but then Tirek also seems to know of Luna, Celestia and Cadance, all of whom postdate his legend...
Presumed origins for Discord: integral manifestation of chaos and disharmony, an essential part of the world or an expression thereof, immortal and ever-changing.
OR
The misbegotten spawn of hyper-magical creatures (pony + Dragon)... Draconeqqus, after all.
OR
A demon, comparable to Tirek in power but less constant mentally.
OR
The realization of Starswirl's research, self-applied with grotesque and mind-altering results.
I'm leaning towards option A, myself. Whatever the case, Discord's reign is the end of my fanon timeline.

Hm. Hearth's Warming Eve dates Starswirl as pre-Hearthfire, as he's Clover's mentor. Still don't know where alicorns come from. Starswirl is not mentioned in HWE, which focuses on the power players in each nation - I'd guess he either retreated to hermitage, perished of age, or 'vanished' at or before the arrival of Windigoes. Starswirl having dealt with Scorpan and Tirek in the past would probably have been able to figure those things out - unless his knowledge of friendship, though enough for Scorpan, was insufficient to repel Windigoes.
Here's my headcannon *BLAM*
Starswirl retreated into hermitage after helping Scorpan understand not-being-a-jerk, then trained Clover the Clever, who rose in power in Unicornia.
Starswirl remained behind when the Great Migrations occurred, researching deep magic and the power of the legendary Alicorns.
I'm skipping the whole 'Tirek knows not of Twilight but is totes familiar with the other three, even though Cadance wasn't an Alicorn until Twilight was alive - and Twilight's princess-ness has been widely publicized...' thing
Starswirl unlocks the secret of Alicorn Magic, and somehow either clones/grows Celestia and Luna or helps his young apprentices realize their true power as Alicorns. I'm leaning towards the former. Raised to unite the tribes, as Starswirl still hopes they're alive somewhere, the Heavenly Twins are also a failsafe against the loss of Unicorn magic governing the sun and moon. They begin their journey in search of Equestria, though whether Starswirl lives to see them set out is uncertain.
Discord, a completely unrelated entity with power comparable to anything you'd care to name, finds Equestria and sets up shop. Tirek seems to have known him before, but then Tirek also seems to know of Luna, Celestia and Cadance, all of whom postdate his legend...
Presumed origins for Discord: integral manifestation of chaos and disharmony, an essential part of the world or an expression thereof, immortal and ever-changing.
OR
The misbegotten spawn of hyper-magical creatures (pony + Dragon)... Draconeqqus, after all.
OR
A demon, comparable to Tirek in power but less constant mentally.
OR
The realization of Starswirl's research, self-applied with grotesque and mind-altering results.
I'm leaning towards option A, myself. Whatever the case, Discord's reign is the end of my fanon timeline.


One nitpick. A thousand years was how long Luna/Nightmare Moon were imprisoned. The reign of peace would have been longer than that.

If this does prove to be right in the show, how  will it be exposed?

Also, if this is the case, I don't think it was just his physical appearance affected. It would have hit his mind too.


I''ve noticed when discord uses his magic a yellow flash happens much simpler to star sweled's magic from his horn


I believe that Discord being Star Swirl is a valid theory. If we think back to the incomplete spell and how itwas never finished, the spell could have totally turned Star Swirl into Discord. This could also explain why Discord has magic without being a pony with a cutie mark. But if we look at the very nature of the spell, it switches the cutie marks/destinies of ponies. What use could that possibly be for? It seems like it would cause more trouble than anything...something Discord is known for. I believe this spell shows the chaotic nature that Discord has. Another theory is that it was intentional, Discord is always helping Twilight in her Destiny in his own distorted way as plainly seen with season four's permire and finale. And what if Star Swirl purposely made that spell knowing it would create a princess, time travel is a thing in Equestria, it is entirely possible he knew about Twilight or in the sense about a pony who would finish the spell. The spell was just another long awaited plot by Discord in helping Twilight discover herslf.


in the book "the journal of the 2 sisters" referring to Celestia and luna it tells about how star swirl the bearded was their friend and mentor and attended the corination. but I  still like your theory.  I'm not saying that the book makes it wrong, because it doesn't.

P.S. I love your videos!!


Actually, the season finale prooved why Discord is NOT Star Swirl. In the story of Tirek, it mentioned that Star Swirl was a friend of Scorpan when Celestia and Luna ruled Equestria. In ”Return of the harmony” part 2 Celestia mentioned that Discord ruled BEFORE she and her sister. So Star Swirl was still in those times after Discord was defeated. How could a person (pony) be in 2 places with 2 diferent forms?

I don't know what username to put because I have no imagination

@I don't know what username to put because I have no imagination well starswirl isn't discord but in boast busters a duplication spell is mentioned.

@I don't know what username to put because I have no imagination well starswirl isn't discord but in boast busters a duplication spell is mentioned.

Not nessicarily, remember the episode when Twilight used an old spell of his to travel back in time, where technically she was in two places at once? Well, Starswirl could have altered that spell so that while Starswirl was with Boreas or whatever his name is, he could also roam around, ruling Equestria as Discord.

Note he had that spell that Twilight used to warn herself not to worry so much. My guess is that they are in fact the same person...er...pony, and he altered the spell, therefore he could be in two places at the same time for way longer than a few seconds.

I don't know what username to put because I have no imagination because discord Can do shit

I don't know what username to put because I have no imagination because discord Can do shit

I completely agree with this, but for the people who thinks it's possible just because he's discord and unpredictable, think about it. If discord could duplicate himself, he wouldn't need to free himself, and chaos would already be all around Equestria, Canterlot, and so on. He would possibly be able to defeat the princesses, and even the magic of friendship. When he had divided the ponies in a maze, he fought many slip ups and ever manipulated them, taking full control. Just imagine if there were more than one. Even if he does have the power to duplicate himself, it hasn't been proven, therefore, for now it is not possible.

That is true though we do not know the rest of his kind. It could be that stawswirl's personality altered it to playful then absolute destruction.

That is true though we do not know the rest of his kind. It could be that stawswirl's personality altered it to playful then absolute destruction.

truer words never spoken. XP Til now like 7:56am. XD

truer words never spoken. XP Til now like 7:56am. XD

Though that would mean the draconis are much more  chaotic evil then good. It would be interesting if some one could make a head canon around the time of Tirek and the second forthcoming of discord in the time that starswirl disappeared. It would be a interesting read.

@Christian Kor Thats an interesting thought for a back lash. I could see that happening.

@Christian Kor Thats an interesting thought for a back lash. I could see that happening.

@FrostTheFox yes. it does make sense nonsense

@FrostTheFox yes. it does make sense nonsense

I don't know if Discord already existed with Starswirl the bearded. I believe it is actually a darker tale. When Starswirl tried to change a draconis into a good guy with his spell it backfired switching there bodies instead and personalities. Discord killed Starswirl even though starswirl had become Discord.

well maby he was like a vampire and terns into discord

well maby he was like a vampire and terns into discord

That is correct Scorpan was a friend to him. I won't lie I did enjoy this theory it was well thought out. Starswirls spell was also interesting to me. So for the sake of argument lets just say this was true. Even thought it not run with me on this. Magic is very versatile and has many different properties in it's usage. Thought a spell design to specifically target your friends would do just that. Now if you didn't have any that leads to the question of what kind of back lash if any would happen? In order to understand that you would need to know more about Starswirls personality I am amusing on this. Depend on that would depend how that backlash would effect him if at all. The possibility of no backlash is also a thing. With nothing to focus on the spell wouldn't work. If it did I assume it would switch the closest thing to a friend it could find. Family or perhaps his personality. As for a transformation I haft to say highly unlikely since the spell was very clear of its design. (So that is my thoughts as for what is cannon.) We know Starswirl was around during Luna and Celestias rule and it was state he never got it to work. This would me he might have cast the spell but with no friends in his life the spell had nothing to target. I would also point out that this spell didn't bounce to any family other wise it would have work. In which case Twighlight would have never gotten book. So it simple was cast and fissile out. However The Brony Notion I did enjoy this and it was clever. Thank you for posting this. It was fun to think about. /)

Also the Comic does better job at this then anyone else. Read the comics people they almost actually came out with what happens to star swirl all we know his last spell that he did not finish is when he had disappeared.

Also the Comic does better job at this then anyone else. Read the comics people they almost actually came out with what happens to star swirl all we know his last spell that he did not finish is when he had disappeared.

@***** As Discord would miss Star Wish. "Where is the fun in making sense?" He defies logic CHOCOLATE RAIN GUYS!! CHOCOLATE RAIN!!

@***** As Discord would miss Star Wish. "Where is the fun in making sense?" He defies logic CHOCOLATE RAIN GUYS!! CHOCOLATE RAIN!!

Maybe it was before discord started chaos

Maybe it was before discord started chaos

@uriah laverdure Except you winning this argument.

@uriah laverdure Except you winning this argument.

That is true, it also says in some mlp comics that star swirl was friends with Tia AND he made a portal to another dimension witch show'd that discord was the element of friendship. But then in the comic when star swirl found out that Tia was traveling through the dimension they quickly ended there friendship.  But going back to the discord being the element of friendship quickly shows that discord is his own person,and that star swirl was gone because the Tia that was evil put him in a dungeon and he had died because he had no food or water. So that is one of my theory.

@Nettingman
I am chill. This is my idea of fun, debating my favorite topics on the internet.

"Oh and Celesetia and Luna uses their "unicorn" not alicorn power in the first episode prologue. And Maud isn't there on Pinkie's first party in call of the cutie, but she's seen on the picture in season 4. "
The first part can be explained simply: If the theory that Alicorns possess all the magic of the other three types of ponies is correct, then the backstory in the beginning can be saying the sisters used unicorn powers, as opposed to using their Earth pony powers or pegasus powers. After all, unicorns can move the sun, so that would fall under the unicorn power category.

The second also has an explanation, but it's not quite as good: Pinkie's recollection of events vs. what actually occurred. Pinkie did say that the story was "how Equestria was made", and until Magic Duel (where Trixie confirms rock farms) there was a common theory that Pinkie had made the whole story up. Perhaps in Pinkie's memory she didn't remember Maud being there? It isn't very likely, but it can still be explained.

/)

@Nettingman<br>Oh, and also, to my knowledge it's never stated that ANYONE died. We might as well assume Clover the Clever and Princess Platinum are alive, because no one has ever been said to have died in the show.

@Nettingman
Oh, and also, to my knowledge it's never stated that ANYONE died. We might as well assume Clover the Clever and Princess Platinum are alive, because no one has ever been said to have died in the show.

@Nettingman<br>I challenge you to provide ANY evidence in canon that Starswirl could time travel.

@Nettingman
I challenge you to provide ANY evidence in canon that Starswirl could time travel.

@Nettingman
"The Luna thing can be considered as poor drawing"
No, it can't. The comics specifically say her appearance changed because... love, or something. They show her transform from old version to new version, despite it being AFTER Season 2, where she has her new appearance.

@Spoiler Alert Oh and you're right in your arguing about the comics, but I don't think these are so big contradictions. The Luna thing can be considered as poor drawing, and Cherilee told a fib about her cutie mark. :D Still, I think the canonness (if it's a word) of the comics is a thing that everyone should decide on their own.

@Nettingman
I haven't read the Journal of the Two Sisters, so I don't know what it says. I do however, know what the show says. The show never explicitly states that the Sisters ruled after Discord, but it does imply that Discord came before Tirek and Scorpan and after the first Hearth's Warming.

Reasoning: Discord ruled when the tribes were united. This is explicitly stated. He also ruled about the time the Sisters gained power. Thus clearly after the founding of Equestria, so after Starswirl mentored Clover the Clever.
However, Tirek knew Discord had been imprisoned yet didn't know Discord was free (he states this in Twilight's Kingdom), therefore he arrived in Equestria after Discord's defeat, and didn't know Discord was released because he had been in Tartarus and then in hiding.

So Starswirl was around before and after Discord for extended periods of time. Therefore Starswirl cannot be Discord!

Oh, and I pointed out why the comics could not be considered canon earlier.

I don't know where you heard that Cadance was born as an alicorn. And these books are written by G. M. Berrow, but the Journal is written by Megan McCarthy, who's one of the show lead storywriter. But of course noone can tell what's canon, what's not. Personally I take all movie, book and comic canon, too.

@Nettingman Yes, but the books fom Hasbro aren't canon everytime because in Twilight Sparkle and the Crystal Heart spell it mentioned that Cadence was born a pegasus but some other people from Hasbro say that Cadence was actually born an alicorn so we cant know if the books are canon or not. It depends of what appears in the series.

In the Journal of the two sisters (which s written by Megan), it is stated, that Luna and Celestia became princesses as fillies (or at least they didn't have their cutie mark for alicorns age differently). That means they defeated Discord after all of this. The book also says how they found the tree of harmony after they became princesses. That is of course, if the book is to be taken canon. (Sorry for my bad english.)

@WarriorCatFan00
Except Luna and Nightmare Moon are the same pony, and it's been stated by John de Lancie himself that Discord is not Starswirl the Bearded.

And you've dipped into speculation that has absolutely no support in canon. Starswirl the Bearded can:
1. Make friends
2. Turn stuff into lambs
3. Banish people to alternate dimensions (debatable canon-wise)

Nowhere on that list is "split himself in two beings, one of which is immortal".

@sparkadus<br>I believe the lack of understanding is entirely on your part. What isn't there to understand in my argument? If Twilight knew Luna was possessed by the Nightmare Forces, why would she try to talk her out of it? The comics do not make sense in canon, therefore they can't be canon.

@sparkadus
I believe the lack of understanding is entirely on your part. What isn't there to understand in my argument? If Twilight knew Luna was possessed by the Nightmare Forces, why would she try to talk her out of it? The comics do not make sense in canon, therefore they can't be canon.

@WarriorCatFan00 Really? You should check them out. They do a great job expanding the lore of Equestria and giving more personality to characters like Celestia, Shining Armor and Big Mac.

@WarriorCatFan00 Really? You should check them out. They do a great job expanding the lore of Equestria and giving more personality to characters like Celestia, Shining Armor and Big Mac.

@WarriorCatFan00 No, officially licensed comics.

@WarriorCatFan00 No, officially licensed comics.

comics? i've never heard of mlp comics.....do you mean the fan-made comics???

comics? i've never heard of mlp comics.....do you mean the fan-made comics???

@WarriorCatFan00 Try reading the comics.

@WarriorCatFan00 Try reading the comics.

that, might....be right....star swirl was a great magician....so........................GOT IT! this kinda has something to do with the "luna an nightmare moon aren't the same pony theory": when star swirl casted the spell he might torn apart, the chaos side discord and star swirl the bearded. discord was the immortal side so i think star swirl died one day.................that's all................does it make kinda sense???

mind lost? when you have fun with chaos you might forget the past easely exept the after-transformation one

mind lost? when you have fun with chaos you might forget the past easely exept the after-transformation one

@Spoiler Alert Dude, we clearly don't understand eachother enough to have a prober aguement.

@Spoiler Alert Dude, we clearly don't understand eachother enough to have a prober aguement.

@sparkadus
Whether or not they knew what the Nightmare Forces were doesn't affect the Elements acting differently.

"Also, note that NMM was banished to the moon, and where was the nightmare dreamscape? That's why Luna learned so much about it."
Learned so much about what? What are you saying here, and how does it make the Nightmare Forces make sense?

Additionally, if the comics are canon, Twilight's dialogue in Princess Twilight Sparkle doesn't make sense. Why would she try to talk Luna out of becoming Nightmare Moon if she knew it was the Nightmare Forces? If the Nightmare Forces were destroyed, why would she even think Luna could turn into Nightmare Moon again?
Canon conflicts with the comics.

@Spoiler Alert Please note: They didn't know what the nightmare forces were.<br>Also, note that NMM was banished to the moon, and where was the nightmare dreamscape? That's why Luna learned so much about it.

@Spoiler Alert Please note: They didn't know what the nightmare forces were.
Also, note that NMM was banished to the moon, and where was the nightmare dreamscape? That's why Luna learned so much about it.

@sparkadus
It's very possible it brainwashed her. Mind-altering magic is not new in Equestria.
It also could have stripped her of some of her power, or did what it did in Past Sins and remove the evil parts of her soul. It could have done any number of things not involving Nightmare Forces.

But let's look at the other side: If it was the Nightmare Forces that were removed in Friendship is Magic, why did the Elements of Harmony not do that the first time they were used on her? Why would Celestia use the Elements to banish NMM to the moon instead of just stopping the Nightmare Forces?

In my personal headcanon, the Elements defeat unrepentant opponents and revert opponents who are ready to change (hence why Discord is turned to stone twice and Luna is banished the first time, but the second time Luna is reverted and Sunset Shimmer  is reverted the only time the Elements are used on her).

@sparkadus It's a contradiction because Luna retains her old appearance in events that occur after Luna Eclipsed, where we see her with the new appearance. Furthermore, we see Cheerilee say teaching is gross AFTER she earned her cutie mark, but in canon Cheerilee says she got her cutiemark when she realized the joys of teaching. Two direct conflicts with canon!

@Spoiler Alert Okay then.
I'll give you some proof.
If NMM wasn't a result of the nightmare spirits, then what did the Elements Of Harmony do in episode 2 of season 1?
They turned Luna back to her old self, which would've been impossible without brainwashing her, unless the nightmare spirits are cannon. It's just 1 example and I have more, but this will do for now.

@Spoiler Alert Dude, none of the "contradictions" you pointed out doesn't break cannon. I'm not gonna go into details, since that would take more words then I have patience to write.

@Spoiler Alert Dude, none of the "contradictions" you pointed out doesn't break cannon. I'm not gonna go into details, since that would take more words then I have patience to write.

@sparkadus
I need proof. What I'm getting on the internet is that Hasbro told the writers to not contradict canon, not that it is canon.

Also, Andy Price said: " IS IT CANON? The comic is set within show continuity, and is done in cooperation with the show staff. This is as close to the show as it gets without having it animated. I personally say yes, but it is really up to the individual to decide."

Yet, the comics contradict the show. One person goes into detail here:
http://mlpforums.com/blog/1083/entry-12738-are-the-friendship-is-magic-comics-canon/
And the claims about Luna's appearance are further reinforced by the fact that the comics indicate Luna's change in appearance happened after Magic Duel, since Trixie is good and talks about second chances.

There's also the problems with considering them canon: It decreases Luna's responsibility about the NMM incident, ruining what would be a good moral lesson and also making Celestia's banishment really, really awful. Also, that means traveling to the moon on a lasso is canon, and that's just stupid.

@Spoiler Alert Actually, Hasbro has confirmed that the comics are cannon.<br>The reason for the comics to exist in the first place, was to tell stories that were either too long or too short to show on tv, thus expanding the shows lore.

@Spoiler Alert Actually, Hasbro has confirmed that the comics are cannon.
The reason for the comics to exist in the first place, was to tell stories that were either too long or too short to show on tv, thus expanding the shows lore.

@Izzy Reed
Actually, Hasbro itself doesn't produce the comics. They merely licensed the comics.

The comics don't count as canon because they actually conflict with canon a good deal. So at best they are "B canon", which means they are canon unless the show contradicts them.

And while it isn't exactly confirmed, I don't believe Starswirl isn't around after Luna's Banishment. My headcanon puts Discord's defeat at least 2000 years before the events of the show.

@***** Why aren't the Comic books and books cannon? as they are all produced by hasbo the owner of mlp. is it due to the fact they are not write by Lauren Faust? Bc if thats the case neither are a lot of episodes in the animations.

@***** Why aren't the Comic books and books cannon? as they are all produced by hasbo the owner of mlp. is it due to the fact they are not write by Lauren Faust? Bc if thats the case neither are a lot of episodes in the animations.

@Izzy Reed That's a good point too. But the comics aren't averytime canon.

@Izzy Reed That's a good point too. But the comics aren't averytime canon.

Also in the comic books (which are cannon) it is shown that Star Swirl is still around after Luna's banishment. But Luna helped to banish Discord in the show. Therefore Discord came before Star Swirl

Also in the comic books (which are cannon) it is shown that Star Swirl is still around after Luna's banishment. But Luna helped to banish Discord in the show. Therefore Discord came before Star Swirl

@Shuyan Branton<br>That went back in time for a few seconds and didn't change anything. Hardly an explanation for why Discord would exist at the same time as Starswirl. Plus, in Hearth's Warming Eve, it's established that Starswirl was around long before the unification of Equestria, and he was around after. Discord appears in the middle of it and is trapped in stone. So if Starswirl had gone backwards in time, he would have had to go backwards a long time before Discord without returning to the "present" after becoming Discord.

@Shuyan Branton
That went back in time for a few seconds and didn't change anything. Hardly an explanation for why Discord would exist at the same time as Starswirl. Plus, in Hearth's Warming Eve, it's established that Starswirl was around long before the unification of Equestria, and he was around after. Discord appears in the middle of it and is trapped in stone. So if Starswirl had gone backwards in time, he would have had to go backwards a long time before Discord without returning to the "present" after becoming Discord.

Star Swirl did have a time travel spell.

Star Swirl did have a time travel spell.

@Anya Kaminski<br>No actually, Twilight Velvet was stated to be the author of the Daring Do books in the comics. The show proved otherwise.

@Anya Kaminski
No actually, Twilight Velvet was stated to be the author of the Daring Do books in the comics. The show proved otherwise.

@Shannon Hauck<br>I'm sorry, but you spoke in an orderly language and I understood everything you said clearly. If you were a true follower of nonsense, you wouldn't use such an orderly form of communication.

@Shannon Hauck
I'm sorry, but you spoke in an orderly language and I understood everything you said clearly. If you were a true follower of nonsense, you wouldn't use such an orderly form of communication.

@Anya Kaminski that may be a possibility

@Anya Kaminski that may be a possibility

@Rachel Black I think they meant Rainbow Dash, not Twilight.

@Rachel Black I think they meant Rainbow Dash, not Twilight.

Twilight's mom is Twilight Velvet, though.

Twilight's mom is Twilight Velvet, though.

@metalsystem761 the comics also hint at the writer of Daring Do being Twilight's mom or something like that, show always takes priority over comics, but the show also disproves discord is star swirl

@metalsystem761 the comics also hint at the writer of Daring Do being Twilight's mom or something like that, show always takes priority over comics, but the show also disproves discord is star swirl

@100aegir<br>How would Fluttershy knit? (comically missing the point)

@100aegir
How would Fluttershy knit? (comically missing the point)

agreed, and good stuffs. ^_-

Ofcourse, nothing to stop the magic of the headcannon or head-canons from having fun with AU's & "What Ifs" , and having ways to make things work in creative works is fun.  (as is discussion of Zelda and its Legendary 'multi-timeline' multiverse thing)

@Shannon Hauck<br>Even randomness makes sense.

@Shannon Hauck
Even randomness makes sense.

You're right. What fun is there in making sense? I'll ask your boss to pay you in rusty spoons instead of money, won't that be fun?

You're right. What fun is there in making sense? I'll ask your boss to pay you in rusty spoons instead of money, won't that be fun?

NUUUUU making sense IS nonsense <br>have you ever heard of RANDOMNESS

NUUUUU making sense IS nonsense
have you ever heard of RANDOMNESS

@EMan753 Too bad, 'cause things <i>must</i> make sense, else they wouldn't be things. Case closed.

@EMan753 Too bad, 'cause things _must_ make sense, else they wouldn't be things. Case closed.

Your argument is invalid.<br>What's the fun in making sense?

Your argument is invalid.
What's the fun in making sense?

My god, are we still talking about this?

My god, are we still talking about this?

As with the Season 4 finale, the comics (mirror universe arc) also show that Star Swirl was around during Celestia and Luna's rule, after Discord had already been turned to stone.

As with the Season 4 finale, the comics (mirror universe arc) also show that Star Swirl was around during Celestia and Luna's rule, after Discord had already been turned to stone.

@Rachel Black<br>Too bad, 'cause he's not Starswirl the Bearded. End of discussion.

@Rachel Black
Too bad, 'cause he's not Starswirl the Bearded. End of discussion.

@uriah laverdure
Can a normal everyday human sprout wings and fly? No. So yes, there are things that are impossible, so drop that stupid phrase.

@uriah laverdure
Can a normal everyday human sprout wings and fly? No. So yes, there _are_ things that are impossible, so drop that stupid phrase.

But the Discord incident was BEFORE Tirek and Scorpan.

But the Discord incident was BEFORE Tirek and Scorpan.

@Rachel Black By that same logic Discord could as well likely be the only one of his kind and came out of nowhere, which actually fits far more for the spirit of chaos, aka a creature which existence most likely is not grounded in anything. It also makes it clear that if Discord doesn't like to make sense in the same way you are using it then he could have been anything, he could have been a cloud for as much we know by that logic. Also, you fail to realize one thing, you are trying to use logic to discover how a creature of no-consistency came to existence, heck, the most likely thing that created him would be something like what created the windigo if it wasn't just simply that he exists with no reason for him to exist.

@The Derptor On the same basis I could say that starswirl the bearded became sombra, or anything for that matter. Nothing ever said that he was mutating and it is a huge stretch to make a claim like that from the basis that starswirl used a spell that made him younger, seeing as someone becoming younger or mutating are two very different things.

Exactly! Discord doesn't like the word <b>sense</b> anyway.

Exactly! Discord doesn't like the word *sense* anyway.

except in the journal of the two sisters its revealed that star-swirl perfected his time travel spell, but each time he used it it made him younger. maybe eventually all the time traveling mutated him into discord and drove him insane, then he went back in time to take over equestria before luna and celestia came to power

@sweetie belle It has been officially stated that the comics are B-canon. In other words they are canon unless they contradict the show directly (for example, IF the show says that Fluttershy does not like knitting but the comics say she does like knitting then the show overrules the comics over what is canon, this is just an example).

@metalsystem761<br>I forgot to add that the comics aren't actually made by the writers/creators of the real show. The comics are made by fans. Famous or not, they're fans and don't follow the show. Two different canons.

@metalsystem761
I forgot to add that the comics aren't actually made by the writers/creators of the real show. The comics are made by fans. Famous or not, they're fans and don't follow the show. Two different canons.

@***** I wouldn't say him being in two places at once is out of the question, considering he can easily clone his body features (like his face, on the back of his head), but him doing that while trapped in stone would be unlikely.

@***** I wouldn't say him being in two places at once is out of the question, considering he can easily clone his body features (like his face, on the back of his head), but him doing that while trapped in stone would be unlikely.

i think when star swirl become discord, he probably use his chaos or some spell for back far too the time (insert doctor who main theme)

i think when star swirl become discord, he probably use his chaos or some spell for back far too the time (insert doctor who main theme)

@uriah laverdure Try slamming a revolving door!

@uriah laverdure Try slamming a revolving door!

Actually, Hasbro allowed them to create the comics. But they aren't completely canon. They aren't written by the writers of the show so the two follow different plot lines. Sure there's bits and pieces that are a little canon, but not all of it.

@sweetie belle I believe at one time they said the comics were canon.  I can't remember where I heard that, but the comics do stay faithful to the show with characters what they do and everything they just don't make things up like equestria girls

@metalsystem761 <br>I don't think the comics really count for show canon. Seeing as they're following a completely different plot line from the show. But I'm still against the idea of Discord being Star Swirl

@metalsystem761
I don't think the comics really count for show canon. Seeing as they're following a completely different plot line from the show. But I'm still against the idea of Discord being Star Swirl

in the comics it explains Star Swirl and completely shatters him being Discord.  Plus Discord and Star Swirl are shown together at the same time.  Issues 17-20 btw

in the comics it explains Star Swirl and completely shatters him being Discord.  Plus Discord and Star Swirl are shown together at the same time.  Issues 17-20 btw

But not be in 2 places or duplicate himself in 2 diferent forms! Its impossible even for Discord!

But not be in 2 places or duplicate himself in 2 diferent forms! Its impossible even for Discord!


I agree....the personality/appearance swap (as it was shown in the finale s3 episode) nobody remembered that they were in their wrong spots until the spell broke. Everyone thought they seemed to belong...


you say the unfinished spell caused star swirl to change phisically, yet the spell only changes identity, the spell was most likely unfinished because he had no friend of which to change identity. also even though star swirl wasn't into the whole friendship thing, he still did what's best for equestria, doesn't really fit that because he's bored he becomes the god of chaos


if it were true, maybe his change to becoming discord made him forget who he was previously altogether.


I'm not convinced.  If the spell is aimed at swapping the destinies of friends then there is no reason that it would affect him.  It also makes no sense that it would disfigure him in anyway.  Fluttershy to flutterbat does have some major changes but she still remains a pony and keeps her overall appearance. Then, who would he swap destinies with?  Why would his be inverted as it seems?  I am also wondering about the fact that Scorpan's pony friend looks remarkably like Starswirl and yet knows about Discord being turned to stone.  So this kinda throws a wrench into the cannon timeline.


I think it would be great if Discord was Starswirl, but there are a few plot holes to this:
-If Starswirl was the shadow pony, then Discord can't be him.
- In the beggening of the season four finale, it said Tirek's brother befriended Starswirl. Tirek then gave Discord the necklace that Tirek's brother wore. Discord should have seen it on Tirek's brither, but instead he has no idea that it was his brother's. Even if he was just covering up he was Starswirl, I doubt he would sacrifice his power for that.


Well there’s nothing to say they are not related in some way. Discord and star swirl have never been seen together and I don’t think discord knows that the Pilards have returned. It’s possible that star swirl CREATED the draconequus


So some people have asked if Starswirl turned into Discord, why did he appear gone for a while before Discord showed up? My theory on that is this: The spell didn't affect his mind, just his body and Starswirl/Discord spent some time trying to figure out how to reverse the spell, staying hidden to avoid causing a panic with his new form. However as time went on with failure after failure to reverse the spell, he began to go insane from lack of social stimulation. However, as he tried to reverse the spell, he discovered that he now had godlike powers.Because he was still new to these powers, he had limited control over them and one day he cast a spell big enough to expose his existence to the ponies. They ended up labeling him Discord. Starswirl, due to the mental damage, had started having fun creating chaos and gave up on reversing the spell, so he embraced his new identity and adopted the name Discord. However, deep down, Starswirl is still in there. He hasn't 100 percent let go of his old life. He wants to preserve that respect and admiration he had as Starswirl, which was why he's never told anypony about who he once was, and why Starswirl is one of the very few famous ponies still remembered from BEFORE the Age of Chaos, when many of them were likely forgotten.Discord doesn't want that part of his life to be forgotten, or disgraced by knowledge of who he's become. so he wants what happened to him to remain a mystery.


Actually, Laura Faust had created discord as one of the later added characters before the airing of the show. She would most likely know discord's background. I'm not saying that you should go and e-mail Laura or anything, but I'm just pointing out that she might have also made up Starswirl the Bearded, like she did with discord, later in the development before the show aired. So, it's not impossible that Starswirl could have become Discord, like The Brony Notion had brought up. And who is also as socially awkward as Discord? Possibly a friendless smart unicorn devoted to magic such as Starswirl.

 I have a theory on another section of this. The part about Starswirl using the friend switch spell thing messing him up might have also messed up his mind so he didn't remember who he was before, just that he was discord now. Now think, all those things trying to swap friend's cutie marks and stuff could have been too much, turning him into discord. The new spell trying to convert different qualities of different ponies from one pony into one might have just mixed things up.


AND didn't anypony notice how Discord can use magic just by snapping his fingers? Also, every time he appears in the show, random things pop out of no where. Just take the "Glass of Water" song for example. So my point is that it takes a lot of skill to preform that kind of magic. And supposedly StarSwirl is known for his magic and spells... JUST a theory

Well, that theory doesn't hold any water, because they could all be illusions, right? You never see Discord eating his noodles.


you know what might be possible is discord was star swirl and during that time became more then friends with celestia hint and during his relationship with her had this issue with the spell u might wonder why it didn't affect celestia considering what you said bronynotion but if you think about it the elements fuelled the switch in character and they still were represented by the ponies in heart's warming eve.
so.... it would switch the body parts of him like you said but it would explain why its not known celestia is so embarrassed and they both agree to keep it a secret and so star swirl is shunned by everyone also after star swirl becomes corrupted by the loneliness and turns into discord and why clestia is angry at him is because he betrayed equestria and took over equestria this was before she was princess.

you know what might be possible is discord was star swirl and during that time became more then friends with celestia *hint* and during his relationship with her had this issue with the spell u might wonder why it didn't affect celestia considering what you said bronynotion but if you think about it the elements fuelled the switch in character and they still were represented by the ponies in heart's warming eve.
so.... it would switch the body parts of him like you said but it would explain why its not known celestia is so embarrassed and they both agree to keep it a secret and so star swirl is shunned by everyone also after star swirl becomes corrupted by the loneliness and turns into discord and why clestia is angry at him is because he betrayed equestria and took over equestria this was before she was princess.


I do think Starswirl could have turned into Discord. Aside a common physical feature, the share few key character traits. Notice how, when Discord first speaks to the ponies, he makes special mention of all their names and elements. Why would he take the time to tell them what they already know, other than to show off what he knew about them. Like he takes pride in knowledge, like a scholar wanting to flounce his new discovery. This is again reflected during the maze portion, where he takes the time to bend the elements against themselves through manipulation rather then just brute forcing them like he did to Fluttershy. So we can draw that he takes some sort of joy from knowing things and using what he knows.
Another point mentioned is his manipulation. He knew how to corrupt honesty, laughter, generosity, loyalty, and magic, but he couldn't turn kindness on its head. Despite Starswirl spending large amounts of time crafting spells for unicorns to use, surly he had some interaction with other ponies. Of coarse he could have seen how honest folk would turn to lies, loyal people turn their back on their loyalties, ect, but during the last episode of season 3, Celestia mentions that Mr swirl didn't understand friendship, and to understand kindness, you have to be on the receiving end at least once. So his final spell, the one that Celstia sends to twilight, would go unfinished.
 I think the story goes as such: Starswirl, having created and mastered many powerful spells, and having nothing left to study in terms of raw magical power, turns to a magic power he has long since forgone due to some past childhood reason, the magic of friendship, and uses the elements of harmony as a reference. He takes it as a literal magic, and begins to construct a spell on it, the incomplete spell that Celestia dumps on twilight. The incomplete spell fails, but instead of swapping friends he doesn't have's lives around, it instead swaps something else. As he was experimenting with the elements of harmony, he gets swapped the negitive power of the elements [Chaos emeralds?]. Now, filled and becoming the spirit of Chaos, he casts a spell to go way back in time, giving him enough time to experiment with his powers then take over Equestria.
That was... to long winded... I have a fanfiction to write!


Another reason, maybe he was a Mischievous spirit all along? Making time spells, that would total MESS UP time. A spell that switches personalities? Sounds very Mischievous. Or maybe he was discord, turned into star swirl (IDK how) and wanted to turn back, making the spell!


Celestia simply said that he didn't understand friendship as well as Twilight. This doesn't mean that he had no friends. Also, I don't believe that the two Princesses came in to power after Discord's defeat. Notice how they had their ceremonial attire when they defeated Discord. Wouldn't one assume that this attire would have been made for them because they were Princesses?


About that whole timeline it was stated in "The Journal Of The Two Sisters" Swirl Star the Bread SHOWED the element tree to Luna and Celestial telling them about its power


I don't think Discord can be Starswirl, but I bet he was one of his creations or something

More into the idea that Discord is a spawn of Starswirl the Bearded.

@Red that's kinds right but star swirls spell went wrong so he turned into discord
I think

PS:I really like getting in on theory's about mlp because there cool but if if I tell someone they say that's a baby show and then when I tell them.I like yo do theory's there confused

ShadowWriter45 he was beacsue they say in mlp star swirl the bearded created something but it wasn't finished and went wrong or something and I believe that was the creation

Anything could have happened to Starswirl!


I think this also explains why he doesnt like elements in first place..besides the reason he was turned into a stone with it.
This a very good theory but we cant say for sure if its true,only time can tell.


I know this has been since 2014, but. I still have something to say I just watched the episode "The crystalling" parts 1 and 2 and this is the time where starlight sees sunburst her only friend. By looking at sunburst, he said he was a wizard. I mean his coat is full of stars but no moons. and the beard of the starswirl the bearded is the same as sunburst's (well maybe) and he had so many books well maybe like the library of the crystal empire and the castle at canterlot. All I have to say: Discord is not starswirl but, sunburst is and maybe chaged his name and etc.

Ooh wait he also maybe time traveled since twilight love love loves him as her idol. He time traveled using his spell


Celestia: "Starswirl had no friends"
I think they do establish that the princesses just didn't know about the pillars. But this canon explanation now falls apart as to why Starswirl's spell didn't work. He had allies already right? I guess we just have to assume this was from before he met them, from when he parted ways with Celestia and Luna to join the pillars, and go missing without the princesses ever knowing why. This book does not mention the pillars in it, which dates it to that time before he had friends. But then this leaves us with one result: Starswirl could have become an alicorn at any point, and still can now, ever since he joined the pillars. All he had to do, was remember this spell. Did he really only write it in one book, lose it, and forget about it? I wonder how hard he'd be kicking himself if he realised.

Also he's never met Discord ever. As far as I can recall even after season 9, Starswirl has never been seen in the same room as Discord. It still feels like there's something to this.
You make a lot of good points here. Especially given that nobody remembered that Nightmare Moon was Luna, it would make sense that people didn't know Discord was Starswirl. And your timeline is perfect! There just wasn't any mistakes here at all. Which makes it all the more a shame that it ended up being wrong. This really is the best wrong theory the fandom has ever had.


My question is, if Discord IS Starswirl, wouldn't Twilight's rewriting and fixing the spell actually cure him? She repaired a broken spell.


Okay, lets see here. Discord, the lord of chaos, is Star Swirl the Bearded? I don't buy it. Mainly because I don't get why doing the spell that swapped The Elements of Harmony's elements, would change Star Swirl the Bearded (SSTB) into being Discord. It doesn't make an sense. With the Elements of Harmony, it does make sense because they're swapping elements that are there - and if it's just with SSTB a pony, all that would happen is nothing. There's nothing to swap.

Even if SSTB did transform into Discord, why on Earth would he focus his time on chaos magic? From my understanding, he focused on Arcane Spells, not Chaos. And the spells Discord uses look pretty complex, nothing to allow any beginner or even novice to cast no matter how hard they tried. And don't pull that "He had X years to learn them!", if you look at Discord's spells, they're too complex to cast. Come back to me when you say he spent a lifetime learning Chaos Magic and forgetting his Arcane Roots.

Another point is just because two people share similar traits doesn't make them the same. And what I mean is that both Discord and Star Swirl had no friends. Well, my friends and I haven't played the first two Fallout Games, and that doesn't make my friends and I the same person.


I had never heard this theory. and I like this theory XD<br>its a bit like elder scrolls. The hero of Kvatch becoming Sheogorath. VERY similar story lines and it is possible it played out that way as well. but really all that is not written until the authors say "hrmm... yeah... lets do that"

I had never heard this theory. and I like this theory XD
its a bit like elder scrolls. The hero of Kvatch becoming Sheogorath. VERY similar story lines and it is possible it played out that way as well. but really all that is not written until the authors say "hrmm... yeah... lets do that"


actually, I think that your right about the spell turning him into a draconequus, but it wasn't just the cutie marks being changed that made me think this. I see it more as that the his cutie mark was changed while he was still in pony form causing him to change in to a chaos creating pony. I believe that he turned into a draconequus when he was trying to fix the spell because if you remember after twilight fixed the spell she changed into an alicorn, thus proving the people can change species using sertaing spells this is also shown in the episode "It Ain't Easy Being  Breezies", twilight changed the main six into breezies. I believe that starswirled changed him self into a draconequus when he was trying to bring his old cutie mark back, and being the well respected pony that he was, he didn't tell anyone that he had made a mistake and so he just vanished into thin air as the newly made discord went into hiding. After a few years, he decided to come out of hiding with a new name so that he wouldn't ruin the reputation he used to have. Once the ponies of equestrian caught wind that a draconequus had come to equestrian, they all decided to see what he was like. He tried to live in harmony with the ponies of equestrian, but the chaos of the spell had too much control over his personality. he tried to bottle up the chaos inside, but he couldn't, and one day it just took over him thus causing him to take over equestrian, not by choice.


WARNING: Read the Voige of the dawn trader FIRST or else you'll be REALLY confused about the move they messed it up SO bad


I'm not quite sure why that cutie mark switching spell would redo Starswirl's body, but on the whole this theory makes a lot of sense.


Just realised something. You're saying there is 1000 years of piece after discord is turned to stone until he's released but by that time Night Mare Moon has already been defeated and turned back into Luna and Luna was also banished for 1000 years. Twilight arrived in Ponyville in season one, Discord is season two and in season 4 that's when the summer sun celebration comes around again (which is one year). That means not even a year went by for Luna and Celestia to rule before Luna 'finally' cracked and became Night Mare Moon, probably only a few months. Not much time to get really angry about ruling pony's.