Y'know looking at all this makes me think CGI was actually one of the best things to happen in the industry since the actors are never in danger from practical effects like they are here, quality be damned.

Y'know looking at all this makes me think CGI was actually one of the best things to happen in the industry since the actors are never in danger from practical effects like they are here, quality be damned.

@XenofiniteX Even in movies with CGI FX, actors can still get injured. Accidents happen in every line of work, and of course at home.

@XenofiniteX Even in movies with CGI FX, actors can still get injured. Accidents happen in every line of work, and of course at home.

ikr, and there can be basically infinite possibilities on what you'd wanna make

ikr, and there can be basically infinite possibilities on what you'd wanna make

@MaskedMan66 I agree with you philosophically, I'm not a luddite, but the fake blood that looks like PS2 graphics that I see in so much stuff if so clearly for budgetary reasons, don't try and act like this is just beyond people's comprehension. It's a lot cheaper, so who cares how it looks?

@Scabious FX is FX; it doesn't matter what method is used. I honestly don't understand why people have allowed their ideas about FX to stagnate and not move ahead.

@Scabious FX is FX; it doesn't matter what method is used. I honestly don't understand why people have allowed their ideas about FX to stagnate and not move ahead.

@MaskedMan66 Hmm, well, this is all very interesting but it hasn't convinced me to ditch practical effects for CGI when it's something that could be done practically

@MaskedMan66 Hmm, well, this is all very interesting but it hasn't convinced me to ditch practical effects for CGI when it's something that could be done practically

@MaskedMan66 I wish I knew more about SAG, I know unions were pretty tamped down in the late 30's early 40's in a lot of sectors, was SAG particularly strong so early in it's existence?

@MaskedMan66 I wish I knew more about SAG, I know unions were pretty tamped down in the late 30's early 40's in a lot of sectors, was SAG particularly strong so early in it's existence?

@Scabious P.S.: There were unions back then as well; Boris Karloff helmed the Screen Actors Guild starting in 1933.

@Scabious P.S.: There were unions back then as well; Boris Karloff helmed the Screen Actors Guild starting in 1933.

@Scabious They only used practical effects back in the day; after all, that's all there was.

As for nowadays, accidents still happen. Daniel Radcliffe's stunt double in Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, Part 2, is now paralyzed from the neck down because of a stunt that went wrong. Likewise, Milla Jovovich's stunt double lost an arm while filming a motorcycle chase for Resident Evil: The Final Chapter.

@Scabious They only used practical effects back in the day; after all, that's all there was.

As for nowadays, accidents still happen. Daniel Radcliffe's stunt double in _Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, Part 2,_ is now paralyzed from the neck down because of a stunt that went wrong. Likewise, Milla Jovovich's stunt double lost an arm while filming a motorcycle chase for _Resident Evil: The Final Chapter._

We can do it safely now, practical effects are cool and they're a lot of people's career. Good union jobs, making our movies better for the audience. It's being cut for money, not for anybody's safety

We can do it safely now, practical effects are cool and they're a lot of people's career. Good union jobs, making our movies better for the audience. It's being cut for money, not for anybody's safety

go watch police story 1&2 and think again

go watch police story 1&2 and think again

@zanec14 I don't argue; I give reliable information.

@zanec14 I don't argue; I give reliable information.

@MaskedMan66 Please stop arguing in bad faith.

@MaskedMan66 Please stop arguing in bad faith.

@Pickle Odessey Jackie Chan used to be like that, but then he started listening to his body when it yelled at him, "我們不像以前那麼年輕了，我的孩子!" (We're not as young as we used to be, my boy!"

@Pickle Odessey Jackie Chan used to be like that, but then he started listening to his body when it yelled at him, "我們不像以前那麼年輕了，我的孩子!" (We're not as young as we used to be, my boy!"

I think only Tom Cruise is the one actor who’ll dismiss CGI or a stunt double for a cool scene

I think only Tom Cruise is the one actor who’ll dismiss CGI or a stunt double for a cool scene

@Lalehian Deity also fantasy allows you to make worlds beyond physical limits

@Lalehian Deity also fantasy allows you to make worlds beyond physical limits

@Ryleeman54number2 You haven't heard of Ed Wood, then.

@Ryleeman54number2 You haven't heard of Ed Wood, then.

@Ryleeman54number2 LOL  "Practical will always be better?"  LOL  Plainly, you've never heard of Ed Wood.

@Ryleeman54number2 LOL  "Practical will always be better?"  LOL  Plainly, you've never heard of Ed Wood.

@MaskedMan66 practical will always be better. I personally dont like green screen ass movies. Cgi should only be used when practical isnt really possible.

@MaskedMan66 practical will always be better. I personally dont like green screen ass movies. Cgi should only be used when practical isnt really possible.

@Ryleeman54number2 Rubbish. No more than any other means of doing special effects.

@Ryleeman54number2 Rubbish. No more than any other means of doing special effects.

Hard disagree. Cgi has ruined the art of film imo

Hard disagree. Cgi has ruined the art of film imo

@Not Me Like I said at the time, accidents are accidents, and they will happen no matter how many safety measures are put in place.

@Not Me Like I said at the time, accidents are accidents, and they will happen no matter how many safety measures are put in place.

@Navi Sakura This is zilch to do with me. Everything I've written here comes from the people who did the legwork on this movie, and who, like Aljean Harmetz, spoke directly to the people who were there.

@Navi Sakura This is zilch to do with me. Everything I've written here comes from the people who did the legwork on this movie, and who, like Aljean Harmetz, spoke directly to the people who were there.

@MaskedMan66 The one near the top, about industrial accidents and greedy, incompetent bosses. Would be easier to tell if you weren't going 1 v 15 in competitive keyboard warrioring.

@MaskedMan66 The one near the top, about industrial accidents and greedy, incompetent bosses. Would be easier to tell if you weren't going 1 v 15 in competitive keyboard warrioring.

@Not Me Nor have I ever. But I'm sorry, which of my comments are you answering?

@Not Me Nor have I ever. But I'm sorry, which of my comments are you answering?

@Mr Mora Nothing short of miraculous, then, because injuries on movie sets and locations are common, especially where there are lots of stunts and scenes of people fighting.

@Mr Mora Nothing short of miraculous, then, because injuries on movie sets and locations are common, especially where there are lots of stunts and scenes of people fighting.

There's a difference between practical effects and practical danger. Mad max had a ton of practical effects but not a single person was seriously injured.

There's a difference between practical effects and practical danger. Mad max had a ton of practical effects but not a single person was seriously injured.

@TheNopeAndNeverKing Okay, the toxicity of the copper lay only in that it could catch fire. It did not cause memory problems for Margaret Hamilton-- or, for that matter, any of the thirty or so actors who had the same make-up put on them for their roles as the Winkie Soldiers. Funny how everyone forgets about them.

(Come to that, how many people have you heard of who developed memory problems from wearing copper jewelry? How many coppersmiths have suffered from memory issues?)

As for the tint remaining on their skin for a short time afterwards, that is not uncommon to many kinds and shades of make-up. Miss Hamilton used to laugh at the recollection that she had to assure people that she wasn't ill.

If I cop gets shot on the job, yeah that’s a danger they knew was present, doesn’t mean we just accept it. This is such an ass take. An actor having a toxic subject applied to their skin that gives them memory issues, so that the public is .005% more convinced her skin is actually green is an unnecessary risk. CGI > unnecessary danger

@AnArn B If he knows not to do that, then he won't do it, therefore no danger at all.

@AnArn B If he knows not to do that, then he won't do it, therefore no danger at all.

@MaskedMan66 unnecessary danger is like a fully-grown man who knows it's dangerous sticking a fork into an outlet

@MaskedMan66 unnecessary danger is like a fully-grown man who knows it's dangerous sticking a fork into an outlet

@Ben I'm not sure what you mean by "discrediting"; that's a usage of that word I haven't run into. I don't deny they had their agonies; those hot lights were murder for everyone; actors and crew alike. That was why Victor Fleming had them switched off at regular intervals.

I think the main thing that people have to realize is that moviemaking was and is an uncomfortable business not for the faint of heart. Bearing that in mind, the hardships any cast and crew undergo are part of the job which they signed on for, and while there have been cases of actors who just couldn't take it (one case in point being Sal Mineo as Dr. Milo in Escape from the Planet of the Apes ), the majority of them are able to tough it out.

Kudos to the cast and crew of Wizard that they did just that.

@Ben I'm not sure what you mean by "discrediting"; that's a usage of that word I haven't run into. I don't deny they had their agonies; those hot lights were murder for everyone; actors and crew alike. That was why Victor Fleming had them switched off at regular intervals.

I think the main thing that people have to realize is that moviemaking was and is an uncomfortable business not for the faint of heart. Bearing that in mind, the hardships any cast and crew undergo are part of the job which they signed on for, and while there have been cases of actors who just couldn't take it (one case in point being Sal Mineo as Dr. Milo in _Escape from the Planet of the Apes_ ), the majority of them are able to tough it out.

Kudos to the cast and crew of _Wizard_ that they did just that.

@MaskedMan66 I think the reason so many people are replying to you is because you seem to be discrediting the suffering that these actors went through, whether or not that was your intention that’s the feeling your replies gave off

@MaskedMan66 I think the reason so many people are replying to you is because you seem to be discrediting the suffering that these actors went through, whether or not that was your intention that’s the feeling your replies gave off

People still get injured, and far worse than anyone did on Wizard. Olivia Jackson (stunt double to Milla Jovovich) lost an arm while shooting Resident Evil: The Final Chapter, and as a result of a stunt gone wrong during the making of Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, David Holmes (stunt double to Daniel Radcliffe) is now a quadriplegic.

People still get injured, and far worse than anyone did on _Wizard._ Olivia Jackson (stunt double to Milla Jovovich) lost an arm while shooting _Resident Evil: The Final Chapter,_ and as a result of a stunt gone wrong during the making of _Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows,_ David Holmes (stunt double to Daniel Radcliffe) is now a quadriplegic.

Maybe to the industry, but not to films themselves

Maybe to the industry, but not to films themselves

@MaskedMan66 Not if you don’t make it live action in the first place.

@MaskedMan66 Not if you don’t make it live action in the first place.

@Lalehian Deity Not when you're making a live-action film; then it tends to be a bit counterintuitive. ;-)

@Lalehian Deity Not when you're making a live-action film; then it tends to be a bit counterintuitive. ;-)

@MaskedMan66 I’m just saying why animation is superior.

@MaskedMan66 I’m just saying why animation is superior.

@MaskedMan66 Animation provides a distilled interpretation of life. It sticks better in the mind.

@MaskedMan66 Animation provides a distilled interpretation of life. It sticks better in the mind.

@Lalehian Deity So explain how we can animate the rest of life, because life is dangerous.

@Lalehian Deity So explain how we can animate the rest of life, because life is dangerous.

See, animation solves the problems of both safety and quality.

See, animation solves the problems of both safety and quality.

@Ræchaěl K Their deaths are not linked to the movie, as many would try to say. And yes, they all were very proud of what they'd achieved. :-)

@Ræchaěl K Their deaths are not linked to the movie, as many would try to say. And yes, they all were very proud of what they'd achieved. :-)

@MaskedMan66  Thank you. At first I didn't understand your comments. I thought they were weird and that you didn't aknowledge the struggles of the actors. But I guess not everything is truly black and white. Acting on stage is indeed risky and dangerous. If we look at all the actual accidents, they were for the sake of the video exaggerated, dragging all the fault to the producers.

The actors themselves look back at it comicaly and I guess that's all it counts (asides from the tragic deaths).

@chinsaw2727 May I ask which director you're talking about? Victor Fleming certainly didn't fit that description.

@chinsaw2727 May I ask which director you're talking about? Victor Fleming certainly didn't fit that description.

@MaskedMan66 explain your point that you talked about in your first few comments

@MaskedMan66 explain your point that you talked about in your first few comments

@ireadysucks No, you came up with that bizarre notion all by yourself.

@ireadysucks No, you came up with that bizarre notion all by yourself.

There are still injuries on movie sets and locations; most stunts are still handled by human beings, and they still get injured. Olivia Jackson lost an arm while filming a stunt for Resident Evil: The Final Chapter, and David Holmes is now paralyzed due to a stunt gone wrong during the making of Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows.

There are still injuries on movie sets and locations; most stunts are still handled by human beings, and they still get injured. Olivia Jackson lost an arm while filming a stunt for _Resident Evil: The Final Chapter,_ and David Holmes is now paralyzed due to a stunt gone wrong during the making of _Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows._

@Mr.DirtyDan The filming day was eight hours long, and Judy Garland, being a minor, was only allowed to work for four of those hours. There were no drugs involved.

@Mr.DirtyDan The filming day was eight hours long, and Judy Garland, being a minor, was only allowed to work for four of those hours. There were no drugs involved.

@MaskedMan66 having to take addictive drugs because of abysmal work hours isnt exactly good treatment. I'm not sure why your denying it so hard

@MaskedMan66 having to take addictive drugs because of abysmal work hours isnt exactly good treatment. I'm not sure why your denying it so hard

@Mr.DirtyDan Working conditions were normal for a Technicolor picture, and I can deny that the cast were treated poorly. They got along well with Mervyn LeRoy and Victor Fleming.

@Mr.DirtyDan Working conditions were normal for a Technicolor picture, and I can deny that the cast were treated poorly. They got along well with Mervyn LeRoy and Victor Fleming.

@MaskedMan66 you can't deny that the cast had terrible working conditions and were treated poorly

@MaskedMan66 you can't deny that the cast had terrible working conditions and were treated poorly

@Mr.DirtyDan They had safety precautions, but the very nature of an accident is unpredictability. There were safety precautions on Resident Evil: The Final Chapter, but Olivia Jackson (Milla Jovovich's stunt double) still lost an arm. There were safety precautions on Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, But David Holmes (Daniel Radcliffe's stunt double) still ended up paralyzed from the neck down.

@Mr.DirtyDan They had safety precautions, but the very nature of an accident is unpredictability. There were safety precautions on _Resident Evil: The Final Chapter,_ but Olivia Jackson (Milla Jovovich's stunt double) still lost an arm. There were safety precautions on _Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows,_ But David Holmes (Daniel Radcliffe's stunt double) still ended up paralyzed from the neck down.

@MaskedMan66 it was preventable with proper safety precautions

@MaskedMan66 it was preventable with proper safety precautions

They should bring back squibs those. Fuck that shitty looking CGI blood

They should bring back squibs those. Fuck that shitty looking CGI blood

Yes & No people pick up on  CGI  and can  decipher CGI or real filming<br> NASA uses CGI extensively !

Yes & No people pick up on  CGI  and can  decipher CGI or real filming
 NASA uses CGI extensively !

@Navi Sakura It has not though. No one actually proved him wrong. Everyone did just like you did : does not actually respond to any of his point, completely misconstrue any of his argument, insult and attack ad hominem. 90% of people that answered to him did it with bad faith.

@Navi Sakura It has not though. No one actually proved him wrong. Everyone did just like you did : does not actually respond to any of his point, completely misconstrue any of his argument, insult and attack ad hominem. 90% of people that answered to him did it with bad faith.

@Zodiac I reply because it would be discourteous not to.

@Zodiac I reply because it would be discourteous not to.

@MaskedMan66 Keep replying to every comment in this thread buddy. Really think about it all the time

@MaskedMan66 Keep replying to every comment in this thread buddy. Really think about it all the time

@Zodiac You don't know what "good humor" means. It means a good mood or a positive attitude. It's nothing to do with "humor" as in comedy.

@Zodiac You don't know what "good humor" means. It means a good mood or a positive attitude. It's nothing to do with "humor" as in comedy.

@Zodiac I know. I countered it with good humor. Best way to deal with it.

@Zodiac I know. I countered it with good humor. Best way to deal with it.

@Zodiac You'd win that bet! Everyone wants me on their team for Trivial Pursuit.

@Zodiac You'd win that bet! Everyone wants me on their team for Trivial Pursuit.

@MaskedMan66 I bet you're fun at parties

@MaskedMan66 I bet you're fun at parties

@gl1tchygreml1n The make those exact demands? In writing?

@gl1tchygreml1n The make those exact demands? In writing?

That's true, but I will say that studios (particularly anime studios) often treat animators like shit too, demanding they sacrifice their health and sanity to meet strict deadlines.

That's true, but I will say that studios (particularly anime studios) often treat animators like shit too, demanding they sacrifice their health and sanity to meet strict deadlines.

@MaskedMan66 That's a lot of words to say "I don't give a shit about human life or safety."

@MaskedMan66 That's a lot of words to say "I don't give a shit about human life or safety."

@Gregory Mirabella  She didn't sue MGM because she knew it would be useless. She said that herself to Aljean Harmetz, who quoted her in the book "The Making of The Wizard of Oz." At the same time, however, she did bear with the pain because she did enjoy playing the character. The burns on her hand were third degree, by the way, and her Alzheimer's was forty years in the future, and therefore irrelevant to the situation.

@DaBluePittoo - Aqua Not complaining, just setting the record straight about one movie in particular, not even talking Hollywood in general. You want horrible things? How about Milla Jovovich's stunt double losing an arm while making "Resident Evil: The Final Chapter?" Or Daniel Radcliffe's stunt double ending up paralyzed while making "Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows?" Or Vic Morrow and child actresses Myca Dinh Le and Renee Shin-Yi Chen getting killed while filming "Twilight Zone: The Movie?" Far worse things have happened with other movies, even ones that use CGI, than ever happened on "The Wizard of Oz," so stop singling it out as though it was some unique case.

@Mario(lightnin) Yeah. But MaskedMan66 over here just had to complain and act like Hollywood was perfectly fine back in the past. While there's always risk to mostly everything, decreasing risk isn't a bad thing, especially for movie production. Thus is why CGI is such a good thing: it reduces the risks of actors going through such horrible things as explained in the video. You wouldn't have to worry about the chance of a pyrotechnic backfiring if it's purely CGI and won't have to dump dangerous material on actors or make ungodly heavy suits that cause fainting thanks to CGI doing both.

Hollywood is still a dangerous and toxic place, but it's much better now than it's ever been thanks to modern technology. Case closed.

MaskedMan here I bet wouldn't mind throwing himself into danger just to take a photograph.

@MaskedMan66 Social boundaries have been shattered. The argumentive state for conflict and differences has been reformed and revolutionized. Everyone has the same views on things, but don't at the same time. Morals are different, but the same. Everyone and everything are different, but the same. The same is different, but the different is same.

@Alan Romo <b>ahem</b> I am not talking about subjective impressions, I am talking about that which is true no matter what anyone has to say about it.

@Alan Romo *ahem* I am not talking about subjective impressions, I am talking about that which is true no matter what anyone has to say about it.

@Alan Romo You misunderstand. I don't believe "my" truth. That's subjectivism. I'm talking about the objective truth, which would be the truth whether I accepted it or not.

@Alan Romo You misunderstand. I don't believe "my" truth. That's subjectivism. I'm talking about the objective truth, which would be the truth whether I accepted it or not.

@MaskedMan66 And what I believe too, so it cancels out yours.

@MaskedMan66 And what I believe too, so it cancels out yours.

@Alan Romo The truth is exactly what I believe.

@Alan Romo The truth is exactly what I believe.

@MaskedMan66 You definitely weren't, but you wanted it by chance. Believe what you want to believe, but it won't change the truth is what I always say.

@MaskedMan66 You definitely weren't, but you wanted it by chance. Believe what you want to believe, but it won't change the truth is what I always say.

@MaskedMan66 I'm sorry you're not getting the reaction you wanted out of me during the beginning... 😔

@MaskedMan66 I'm sorry you're not getting the reaction you wanted out of me during the beginning... 😔

@MaskedMan66Quick question, have you seen the movie Luca?

@MaskedMan66Quick question, have you seen the movie Luca?

@Alan Romo Ooga Booga be smarter if he reads more stuff (anyway it's only a paragraph-length comment).

@Alan Romo Ooga Booga be smarter if he reads more stuff (anyway it's only a paragraph-length comment).

@Harms It's not a matter for agreement or disagreement. Moviemaking has proven extremely dangerous for hundreds of people; the accidents that happened while "Wizard" was being made have, as I've illustrated, paled in comparison to the tragic and even fatal accidents reported from other films and T.V. shows right up to the present day.

There's danger in just about any industry; that's a given. What matters is getting the facts straight (and most often they're more mundane than people think), and also in how the people affected deal with what they've been through. People in general were much more resilient in the past then they are now.

Anyhow, I have enjoyed discussing with you as well; and I want to thank you foe keeping it on an adult level. :-)

@chinsaw2727 It call it a ridiculous scenario, since it doesn't reflect reality.

@chinsaw2727 It call it a ridiculous scenario, since it doesn't reflect reality.

@MaskedMan66 TL:DR: Danger bad. Ooga booga be safe and smart.

@MaskedMan66 TL:DR: Danger bad. Ooga booga be safe and smart.

@MaskedMan66 You seem to know a lot more about the movie than I. I just understand the science. We seem to have different views on how dangerous is too dangerous so let's just agree to disagree.

Sorry if I came off a little angry in my previous comment. Hearing the accidents presented in the video had me a tad emotional.
Thank you for the debate.

@MaskedMan66 I always like to remember that debates like these on the internet are going to be forgotten and it's just for laughs and giggles. Everyone goes back to their normal lives, if you have one.

@MaskedMan66 I always like to remember that debates like these on the internet are going to be forgotten and it's just for laughs and giggles. Everyone goes back to their normal lives, if you have one.

@MaskedMan66

Judy was not "fed meth." People mix up methamphetamine, which Judy never took in her life, with amphetamines, which she did take at various times for various reasons, but had no need of during the making of "Wizard."

Although Judy was not “fed meth”, amphetamines are also extremely addictive and should not be given to a 17-year-old in her developmental phase of life. I also can’t find anything on your statement about her not taking it during the making of the movie. Perhaps I’m wrong however as I’m not a huge fan of the movie.

“Buddy Ebsen, the first actor cast as the Tin Woodman, had a bad reaction to his make-up, which consisted of a greasepaint base with aluminum powder dusted on top of it. The powder got into the air, and then into Ebsen's lungs, where it triggered a congenital bronchial condition and put him in hospital. Naturally, he could not continue, so he was released from the movie. His successor, Jack Haley, wore a reformulation of the make-up, which was now an aluminum paste.”

A bad reaction does not properly describe someone inhaling aluminum powder. Aluminosis is almost guaranteed when inhaling it, and although it was relatively new information at the time, cases were found as early back as the 1930’s. I doubt they did him dirty on purpose, but more research could’ve been done to prevent it.

”The costume designer, Adrian, decided upon the lion pelt when tests with other kinds of suits proved unsatisfactory. But as people have been wearing animal skins and fur and other bits all throughout human history, this really shouldn't be considered that big a deal. The weight of the suit (70 pounds according to most sources) came as much from the padding as the material.”

Perhaps you didn’t watch the video but one of the first things mentioned was the use of intense lights. Animal skins was used for clothes because it keeps you WARM, and the weight of the costume certainly didn’t help.

“Moviemaking is not a safe profession. Stage is not a safe profession. There are very few safe professions. And accidents happen, even when precautions are taken. Playing "coulda-shoulda-woulda," especially about something over which you have no possible influence, is a fruitless exercise. Best you should do what the cast and crew did: enjoy the movie and get on with life.”

Ah, right, so because moviemaking is not a safe profession, which I disagree with, that means that you shouldn’t strive to give the actors and crew the best working conditions possible? That’s moronic. Everyone here is arguing that more precautions could have been taken. Six people out of the cast received major injuries which, even for the time, is unusually high. How do you explain that?

@Kakyoin The Explainer This isn't about me. It's about the truth.

@Kakyoin The Explainer This isn't about me. It's about the truth.

@Rusted Denial Explain how the generation into which a person was born has any bearing on truth. I'll wait.

@Rusted Denial Explain how the generation into which a person was born has any bearing on truth. I'll wait.

@Rusted Denial Nope, I'm sitting calmly in a chair telling the truth.

@Rusted Denial Nope, I'm sitting calmly in a chair telling the truth.

@MaskedMan66 ur the only one on a soapbox ranting

@MaskedMan66 ur the only one on a soapbox ranting

Hell, give the VFX artists a proper paycheck and deadline so the CGI isn't shit

Hell, give the VFX artists a proper paycheck and deadline so the CGI isn't shit

It depends. Safety standards of practical effects were GREATLY improved over time since Wizard of Oz. Modern practical effects safety standards make most practical effects no more dangerous than CGI.

It depends. Safety standards of practical effects were GREATLY improved over time since Wizard of Oz. Modern practical effects safety standards make most practical effects no more dangerous than CGI.

@Mario(lightnin) Welcome to human discourse! :-)

@Mario(lightnin) Welcome to human discourse! :-)

Remember when the comment was about cgi?

Remember when the comment was about cgi?

@MaskedMan66 So let’s say a director for a movie in the 1930’s wants to make a movie and envisions a stunt that is a literal death trap, but won’t budge from their vision in their head because of costs and stubbornness. Because of this, it causes the deaths of the actors involved in the stunt. Would you call this hypothetical scenario an accident or a murder?

Even in schools there's a sense of danger. I got death threats by my peers simply because I had constructive criticism of what they were doing. They wanted to shoot me with bows.

Even in schools there's a sense of danger. I got death threats by my peers simply because I had constructive criticism of what they were doing. They wanted to shoot me with bows.

@MaskedMan66 You know, I used to think he and I were the same. Seeing as how he was so small and slender, just like a girl…

In a men’s society where physical health and strength are the standards we are measured against, he was looked down upon.

I thought that he’d be frustrated and rebellious, with an inferiority complex simmering under the surface.

That he held the same dreams and desires as me, that he was someone who would come running toward the same goal.

So I thought I understood his feelings. To my embarrassment, I was mistaken.

I thought he would sympathize with and support me, and fight by my side… So when I was admitted to the hospital for my condition, I had him do what I wanted while I was unable to move.

And what I wanted was to bring revolution to Yumenosaki and the idol industry. For that purpose, I had to squeeze out the pus and disease and dispose of them.

At that time, I was in and out of the hospital, so it was a lot of trouble trying to do everything myself.

It was my first trial, as something that no one had tried before… And I didn’t have much confidence in it, so I had him give it a go first.

While indoctrinating him with half-truths, I used the student council, created new plans…

And from both on the surface and behind the scenes, I secretly tried to control him.

That trial went well, for the most part.

I broke up the swollen Chess, used Judgment to remove the ill, affected areas… used Duel to kill off enemies, the disease attacking from outside.

Judgment was put down as J, Duel as D, and any other DreamFes were labelled as O…

For convenience, I separated them by alphabetic letters on the student council’s paperwork.

The remnants of that alphabetic management system are why even now DreamFes are officially called S1, A1, and the like.

Well, I digress.

The point is, DreamFes around that time was still just an experiment… It was still an unpolished prototype, so there was no guarantee it would work as I’d expected.

So to take the responsibility of possible failure off me, I fixed someone else at the center of it. In other words, that someone was Tsukinaga-kun.

He was my stand-in protagonist. Thanks to him, I managed to collect a considerable amount of practical data and removed quite a bit of pus from the school.

Of course, we may call it a war or something along those lines, but there were no actual casualties.

The defeated continued on with their carefree lives, but in the later revolution, I made them my supporters.

Tsukinaga-kun continued his steady growth beyond my expectations, and his strength grew far too great…

So to put an end to all of that, I held Checkmate after my condition stabilized.

Checkmate… It was only DreamFes in history to be labelled with the letter C, and became the point at which the path split.

After that, the protagonist changed. I went into action, moving along our plan to conquer the Five Oddballs.

Tsukinaga-kun had exhausted his role. It was clear he was on the verge of a decline.

As he defeated his former comrades, one after another, he soon became resented by everyone and could no longer triumph in DreamFes battles…

But even then, he would cry justice, like Don Quixote, as he continued to fight the villains.

We were concerned with essentially the same things, so there were times when we fought together, too.

However, that relationship didn’t last long, either.

After all, he could probably guess what I’d been planning. He’d say something like “You’re the mastermind, huh~”, and challenge me on many occasions. Either way, I shot back.

He’d already been driven into a corner by then, and no one would stop to listen to the words of a bygone hero, now despised and ostracized.

In fact, people would gather around me in sympathy, telling me how bad they felt hearing such strange things being said to me.

I took advantage of every one of his actions to kindle the fire of my revolution. He burned up, disappeared… and everything went just as I had planned.

Just like the foolish naked king, you all just embarrassed yourselves in letting yourselves be used. I do offer my condolences, though I suppose I’m the last person you’d want empathy from.

It was a war. Those who were deceived are at fault, and those who survived preside as justice.

Of course I felt terrible, but I continued to tell myself that… And I stood atop your remains.

At least this sacrifice wasn’t in vain… All I can do now is assert this.

@MaskedMan66 getting killed instantly by stepping outside your door is low but never zero

@MaskedMan66 getting killed instantly by stepping outside your door is low but never zero

@MaskedMan66 meant to reply to the original commenter my bad lmao

@MaskedMan66 meant to reply to the original commenter my bad lmao

@MaskedMan66 This is a great response and is a satisfactory rebuttal to the concerns the video raises. I replied in hope that you would elaborate on the concept of "accidents are accidents". As i said risk is a spectrum and given this information, and some other minimal research i did on the side, it seems reasonable to me to make the claim that the production was not so much at fault for the accidents that happened on set but instead was just reasonably participating in the common practice of the time. Thank you for explaining.

@Mr.Moist Sorry, who are you talking to? I never dismissed anything. FX is FX. There are tons of ways to achieve an effect, and there are good and bad-- and dated-- examples of all of them.

@Mr.Moist Sorry, who are you talking to? I never dismissed anything. FX is FX. There are tons of ways to achieve an effect, and there are good and bad-- and dated-- examples of all of them.

@MaskedMan66 I don’t think dismissing practical effects is the way to go, just because something could go wrong doesn’t mean it has to. Some of the most iconic artistic works have come from practical effects. Rick baker’s work in American werewolf in London, rob bottins work in the thing, the list goes on and on. Cgi can age but physical work lasts forever. Taking precautions and doing the work right is how it should be done not dismissing a way of working because it can be “scary”.

@Denglish5 Judy was not "fed meth." People mix up methamphetamine, which Judy never took in her life, with amphetamines, which she did take at various times for various reasons, but had no need of during the making of "Wizard."

Buddy Ebsen, the first actor cast as the Tin Woodman, had a bad reaction to his make-up, which consisted of a greasepaint base with aluminum powder dusted on top of it. The powder got into the air, and then into Ebsen's lungs, where it triggered a congenital bronchial condition and put him in hospital. Naturally, he could not continue, so he was released from the movie. His successor, Jack Haley, wore a reformulation of the make-up, which was now an aluminum paste.

It was the copper that made Margaret Hamilton's make-up-- and the make-up worn by all the Winkies-- green in the first place. Make-ups of all formulations have been put on people's mouths, and they have been smart enough not to eat it.

The costume designer, Adrian, decided upon the lion pelt when tests with other kinds of suits proved unsatisfactory. But as people have been wearing animal skins and fur and other bits all throughout human history, this really shouldn't be considered that big a deal. The weight of the suit (70 pounds according to most sources) came as much from the padding as the material.

Moviemaking is not a safe profession. Stage is not a safe profession. There are very few safe professions. And accidents happen, even when precautions are taken. Playing "coulda-shoulda-woulda," especially about something over which you have no possible influence, is a fruitless exercise. Best you should do what the cast and crew did: enjoy the movie and get on with life.

I'd be interested in hearing how this is true for a couple of points. Feeding Judy Garland meth. Was that just normal practice at the time? The tinman being hospitalized for the makeup and then continuing to use it. Was it ignorance of the cause of the original tinman's hospitalization or was it arrogance? The makeup of the witch had copper in it which was known to be toxic upon ingestion. Putting it that close to her mouth seems a bit dangerous was this a common choice for the time? And lastly the cowardly lions suit being as heavy as it was. Was using an actual lions pelt and fur necessary or was it a consequence the executives chose, and possibly the actor, to be as genuine to a lion as they could be?

You seem to be strawmanning, no pun intended, here by saying that risk is risk. The issue of a risk factor is not black and white. There are levels of risk we calculate and make risk assessments. All of these complications are things we know about now, in hindsight, as carrying too much risk to use for a movie production. Did they know that then or were they acting in bad faith by pushing risk they were aware of onto their cast.

@MaskedMan66 a documentary forgot what it's called unfortunately gonna find it by youtube

@MaskedMan66 a documentary forgot what it's called unfortunately gonna find it by youtube

Wild west movies in early 1900s used former outlaws and similar as actors...

Wild west movies in early 1900s used former outlaws and similar as actors...

@Gwesty33 96tears Nobody knowingly put anybody in the path of danger. Accidents are accidents.

@Gwesty33 96tears Nobody knowingly put anybody in the path of danger. Accidents are accidents.

@MaskedMan66 there's the kind of danger of wandering outside your house and possibly getting run over, and sitting down in the middle of a freeway because your director told you to.

@MaskedMan66 there's the kind of danger of wandering outside your house and possibly getting run over, and sitting down in the middle of a freeway because your director told you to.

At least Mila Kunis didn't suffer the same fate as Hamilton.

At least Mila Kunis didn't suffer the same fate as Hamilton.

Yeah, practical is a double-edged sword.

Yeah, practical is a double-edged sword.

@MaskedMan66 damn bro u got ratio'd hard

@MaskedMan66 damn bro u got ratio'd hard

@RandomDude OnTheInternet And don't tell me to "scroll on by," because (a) you'd just be parroting, and (b) where the truth is needed, I'll always stop.

@RandomDude OnTheInternet And don't tell me to "scroll on by," because (a) you'd just be parroting, and (b) where the truth is needed, I'll always stop.

@RandomDude OnTheInternet No, just my spare time. And there's no need for quotation marks; I have set the record straight, thanks to Oz historians who did it before me. Whether the video is correct or not, many people invariably are not correct, and it's they who need telling.

If you don't like it, all you have to do is scroll on by.

The Mummy absolutely nailed their CGI with not just expenses, but also quality at the time, too

The Mummy absolutely nailed their CGI with not just expenses, but also quality at the time, too

@MaskedMan66 it's kind off sad to see a person dedicating a segnificant portion of their year trying to "set the record straight" when the video they're in has already been straightened and does not need further explanations.

@MaskedMan66 it's kind off sad to see a person dedicating a segnificant portion of their year trying to "set the record straight" when the video they're in has already been straightened and does not need further explanations.

@A Fellow Human Oz obsession, if you please. It's everyone else who's banging on about Hollywood.

@A Fellow Human Oz obsession, if you please. It's everyone else who's banging on about Hollywood.

@MaskedMan66 calm down with the Hollywood obssesion

@MaskedMan66 calm down with the Hollywood obssesion

@MaskedMan66 what an amazingly terrible take

@MaskedMan66 what an amazingly terrible take

@LANREBLOOM If that's what you think I'm doing, you're not reading my comments. All I'm doing is setting the record straight about one movie.

@LANREBLOOM If that's what you think I'm doing, you're not reading my comments. All I'm doing is setting the record straight about one movie.

@Carl Jackson Like I already told you in another comment, it's nothing to do with agreement or disagreement. You might as well say that I "want" people to "agree with me" that two plus two equals four. That's a fact regardless of who you're hearing it from and whether you like it or not.

The facts about this movie, which are regularly twisted by people, including YouTubers, are given in their unvarnished truth in the books I also listed for you, and there are other reliable sources as well.

@MaskedMan66 What drives your hundreds of comments on this video? I genuinely want to you what your motivation is as I don't really understand your motive, it seems like you just disagree with everyone deliberately but specifically about the wizard of OZ. Why? Genuinely asking

@MaskedMan66 What drives your hundreds of comments on this video? I genuinely want to you what your motivation is as I don't really understand your motive, it seems like you just disagree with everyone deliberately but specifically about the wizard of OZ. Why? Genuinely asking

@clawz161 Nor were they then; anyone who was would be fired. Actually, it's today's filmmakers you have to look out for; Bruce Willis hated working with Kevin Smith because Smith would always be off in a corner getting stoned.

@clawz161 Nor were they then; anyone who was would be fired. Actually, it's today's filmmakers you have to look out for; Bruce Willis hated working with Kevin Smith because Smith would always be off in a corner getting stoned.

Pretty sure nowadays practical effects arent operated by people that are drunk or high on set so they dont have a chance of exploding of malfunctioning like that.

Pretty sure nowadays practical effects arent operated by people that are drunk or high on set so they dont have a chance of exploding of malfunctioning like that.

I've only spent 2 years as an actor so far and haven't even made it big yet I've already witnessed similar things.
Directors, especially on a budget, are just as cruel as before, the pressure film directors have to endure turns them all into nutjobs disreguarding any human life but their own, I've seen a child actor almost get crippled due to questionable work ethics and insane schedules with no breaks.
During the pandemic there was a complete disreguard for any safety measures, most of the crews would frequently be infected which put in danger elderly actors.
Even nowadays with quality fake blood available for low prices, directors often prefers fight scenes to be real and the actors to sustain real injuries "because it feels more real".

@Seth It wasn't "paint" like house paint. It was make-up, and copper had been in use for many years to effect a green color in the make-up. Neither Margaret Hamilton nor the many actors who played Winkies in the film suffered any lasting ill effects from their make-up.

Bear in mind that people also wear jewelry and other adornments made of copper and have done all right.

@MaskedMan66 the issue is evil actions lies in banality, in turning a cheek. Like how copper paint was already known to be unhealthy for humans but they used it anyway. It doesn’t have to be “hey guys let’s damage all these workers on purpose!”, of course. Most of the time businessmen will simply say “I’ll just cut this corner here”, and then they don’t have to hear about the repercussions of their actions.

@Seth I'm not idolizing anything; of course people suffered; Margaret Hamilton had the skin on the back of her right hand BURN OFF. OF COURSE people suffered.

But-- and this is the point-- the pain and discomfort they underwent was not deliberately done to them. They were just accidents like millions of accidents that have happened throughout moviemaking history-- and indeed human history in general. It was not part of some diabolical plot that MGM had against their performers.

@MaskedMan66 Dude just admit people suffered. It’s a great movie, you’re not wrong for loving it. But you’re just idolizing an era of Hollywood that was much darker than it already is today.

@MaskedMan66 Dude just admit people suffered. It’s a great movie, you’re not wrong for loving it. But you’re just idolizing an era of Hollywood that was much darker than it already is today.

@Seth Given that apologetics is all about setting the record straight and telling the truth, I'd have to give you a "no" on that demand.

@Seth Given that apologetics is all about setting the record straight and telling the truth, I'd have to give you a "no" on that demand.

@MaskedMan66 dude stop with the apologetics in every comment thread

@MaskedMan66 dude stop with the apologetics in every comment thread

He’s not entirely wrong though, this production was absurd and unnecessary.

He’s not entirely wrong though, this production was absurd and unnecessary.

Practical effects have come a LONG way. Look at Pan’s Labyrinth.

Practical effects have come a LONG way. Look at Pan’s Labyrinth.

@Draph Enjoyer Wrong. The accidents that happened were nothing but accidents. Are all industrial accidents to be blamed on "greedy, incompetent" bosses? Even with the greatest safety measures in place, things can still break loose. It's ludicrous to single out one movie and make it a poster child for a soapbox rant.

This is more the fault of a greedy incompetent studio who put their actors in danger solely to cut cost and production. <br>Putting the blame on practical effect as a whole is just shifting the blame. Workers rights and effects have come a long way since the 40s

This is more the fault of a greedy incompetent studio who put their actors in danger solely to cut cost and production.
Putting the blame on practical effect as a whole is just shifting the blame. Workers rights and effects have come a long way since the 40s

@Meera System No, I said that danger is a part of life because danger is a part of life. You inferred something that's inaccurate.

@Meera System No, I said that danger is a part of life because danger is a part of life. You inferred something that's inaccurate.

@Meera System  The Wicked Witch's exit from the Munchkin City wasn't meant to be a stunt. the way they had it worked out, the elevator would have Miss Hamilton under the stage before the flames went up, and the first time they did the shot, everything worked perfectly. It was in a later take that the fire went off too soon.

Miss Hamilton never raised a stink about it, dealt with her injuries, finished her job, had a ball playing the Wicked Witch, and was one of the movie's biggest fans for the rest of her life. That being the case, it's silly for anyone to virtue signal on her behalf.

Show me a medical report definitely linking her Alzheimer's to her make-up from half a century before, and we'll talk. And while you're at it, find out how the twenty or so actors who wore the same formulation on their faces fared later in life. If they all developed Alzheimer's as well, you might have a case.

That's why I don't get your comment
Someone was just pointing out that "hey, CGI is good because it makes things less unnecessarily risky and dangerous things preventable"
And you're just like "danger is a part of life", as if saying "I don't care about the safety of actors", even after watching what the potential consequences are.

@MaskedMan66 If it can be preventable, it's unnecessary.
Sure, cooking is inherintly dangerous and you can get burned in the process, and stunt acting is an inherintly risky job doing risky maneuvers, but even in those you have to prevent danger as much as possible.

There's a difference between "stunt went wrong, injured my arm" and "stunt went wrong and I got burned alive" or "stunt went wrong and a huge explosion hit me, I also got alzheimer out of poisoning from my makeup".

@Meera System Exactly what would "necessary danger" be? Danger is danger. It can be big or small. And it can also be survivable.

@Meera System Exactly what would "necessary danger" be? Danger is danger. It can be big or small. And it can also be survivable.

@MaskedMan66 There's a difference between "danger" from daily life and unnecessary, huge danger from a professional job that's supposed to make things as safe as possible.

@MaskedMan66 There's a difference between "danger" from daily life and unnecessary, huge danger from a professional job that's supposed to make things as safe as possible.

There's danger in any occupation-- there's danger in just stepping outside your door. Welcome to life.

There's danger in any occupation-- there's danger in just stepping outside your door. Welcome to life.


I can't imagine being in that 100lb lion suit the whole day, nobody just willingly signs up for that torture

I can't imagine being in that 100lb lion suit the whole day, nobody just willingly signs up for that torture

@Certified Intellectual: James Taboo You do what your job involves.

@Certified Intellectual: James Taboo You do what your job involves.

Hey, if there’s money on the line, people will do anything for it, especially in wearing lion pelts that weigh a lot.

@The Tony Hercules only wore one lion skin; Bert Lahr's costume was made from two! Now, that's a man!

@The Tony Hercules only wore one lion skin; Bert Lahr's costume was made from two! Now, that's a man!

Being jobless in a country with little to no public service with culture of genrally not helping the poor at the time and loosing an opportunity to become a celebrity back when being one meant a lot isn't that good either, is it? I think what's even more tragic is that one can't say for sure if they wouldn't have done the same, nor that any of this could have been avoided back then

@MaskedMan66 wrong, it's literally suffocating the actor

@MaskedMan66 wrong, it's literally suffocating the actor

No wonder everyone in the movie was miserable, forced to work while being abused

No wonder everyone in the movie was miserable, forced to work while being abused

@Katie Exactly; in the first place, Lahr's suit was more like 70 pounds, which was quite enough, and comparable to Boris Karloff's Frankenstein Monster gear. Also, other actors have worn much heavier costumes in other films right up to the present day.

<i>gestures to plush fursuits</i> observe

@Dehydrated Oddish Especially with such an uninformed comment.

@Dehydrated Oddish Especially with such an uninformed comment.

Literally no matter where you go you get so many likes lol it makes me wonder what your like in person maybe you should start a podcast

@Ian Pitts Lahr's costume was 70 pounds, which was quite enough for him.

@Ian Pitts Lahr's costume was 70 pounds, which was quite enough for him.

@MaskedMan66 Infantrymen sign up for that kind of torture and more. Maybe not a lion suit but certainly more than 100 pounds.

@Ben To be sure, but it's better to stick to the bare facts, otherwise people may get confused.

@Ben To be sure, but it's better to stick to the bare facts, otherwise people may get confused.

@MaskedMan66 $2,500 is equivalent to $49,000 adjusted for inflation.

@MaskedMan66 $2,500 is equivalent to $49,000 adjusted for inflation.

I swear bro we probably have the sam exact YouTube front page you're everywhere I am

I swear bro we probably have the sam exact YouTube front page you're everywhere I am

@Melissa Cooper I actually played the Cowardly Lion in a stage production of the MGM musical, and while my costume wasn't as heavy as Lahr's, I was always glad to stick my head out of the stage door during Intermission (we put the show on in February).

@Melissa Cooper That's showbiz. People have worn heavier and much more uncomfortable costumes for movies and stage. And on "Wizard" they took frequent breaks during which slats were opened on the suit and Lahr could get his hands out; he was a "nervous type," as Ray Bolger once described him, and didn't like not being able to use his hands.

I remember being in a bunny suit for Easter because I was the Easter Bunny. It was very hot in that costume! Of course I only wore it for an hour. I can't imagine having to wear it for several hours a day like Bert Laur had done playing the Cowardly Lion!

@NOOTella To answer that question, I give you the words of Judy's daughter Lorna Luft:

"That didn't happen. They would have never, ever risked their careers, their once chance to be in a film."

You know Judy Garland was also molested by Munchkins during filming

You know Judy Garland was also molested by Munchkins during filming

@Faux actually calculating temperature you treat it as being +5C when looking at the outside temp and wearing a frag vest. So if it’s 25C and your wearing a frag vest your experiencing 30C weather conditions. Also metric>imperial preemptively saying it.

@Chillin' the Feelin' Only in the sense that any uncomfortable situation may be described by the superlative "torture." Lots of people would describe their own jobs as "torture." But it isn't a case of their bosses deliberately putting them through discomfort.

@SummeryMira Because that's where truth needs to be, in amongst all the rumors, misinformation, and lies. Somebody's gotta do it.

@MaskedMan66 ah, i did not know this, thanks!

@MaskedMan66 ah, i did not know this, thanks!

@The poodle player Those sorts of suits are built around a support frame and are usually equipped with internal fans.

200 lbs? I think i'd die. Fursuits are already ungodly hot

200 lbs? I think i'd die. Fursuits are already ungodly hot

@L Haviland With frequent breaks to cool off.

@L Haviland With frequent breaks to cool off.

I guess you haven’t hear of the show Dinosaurs where they had to wear more than 200 lbs suits.

I guess you haven’t hear of the show Dinosaurs where they had to wear more than 200 lbs suits.

@lampini A 70 pound suit, which was quite enough. But other actors have been through worse things. At least they shut off the lights at regular intervals and Lahr got to open slats on his costume to cool off. Think of Anthony Daniels in the desert (can't shut that heat off) in a top-to-toe fiberglass suit.

@ARCtrooperblueleader What's got you so amused?

@ARCtrooperblueleader What's got you so amused?

@tripplefives We get it bro,you're a victim

@tripplefives We get it bro,you're a victim

@Rainkit The Depression was over in 1933; things were good enough in 1939 that Hollywood was able to put out 365 movies, a record that has not been matched since.

The filming day on "Wizard" was eight hours, like any work day, and there were frequent breaks so people could rest while the lights were shut off.

Movies win Oscars, records win Grammys. And black actors could go, they just couldn't use the same entrance. But Hattie McDaniel had to be there to accept her award.

@jillian c Bert Lahr had already achieved fame; that was why they wanted him for the role.

@jillian c Bert Lahr had already achieved fame; that was why they wanted him for the role.

@The Tony in 100 degrees? No fucking way

@The Tony in 100 degrees? No fucking way

@T S im going into the military snd id rather do that than wear that suit in the heat

@T S im going into the military snd id rather do that than wear that suit in the heat

Do you think he got gains from wearing that?

Do you think he got gains from wearing that?

@The Tony as long as you make it clear that youre not a furry lol

@The Tony as long as you make it clear that youre not a furry lol

@Ronin Joe That's just how it was shooting a Technicolor movie. They just dealt with it; plus, Victor Fleming had the lights shut off and the doors opened at regular intervals so everyone could cool off and rest.

It was also over 100 degrees, I can’t even imagine

It was also over 100 degrees, I can’t even imagine

@gustavo godoy Fair enough. Well, that was simply how things were in those days; air conditioning was in its very earliest days and rather rudimentary. But Victor Fleming ordered frequent breaks so that the lights could be shut off, the doors opened, and everyone could have a breather.

Actors were used to working under hot studio lights, but the lights required for Technicolor were brighter and therefore hotter. It was the same over on the "Gone With the Wind" set.

@MaskedMan66 40°C means 40° Celsius or 104° Fahrenheit

@MaskedMan66 40°C means 40° Celsius or 104° Fahrenheit

@gustavo godoy 70 pound lion suit with frequent breaks during the eight-hour day when the costume was opened, including being removed for lunch breaks. 40 degrees is only a few degrees above freezing.

100lb lion suit the whole day for a hypochondriac in a set above 40°C to have the scenes in color

100lb lion suit the whole day for a hypochondriac in a set above 40°C to have the scenes in color

You've never been in the military I see lmao

You've never been in the military I see lmao

@That’s one smug wojak No, they expected it to be work, just like all the other projects they worked on. And that's what it was.

@Szczypior The Depression had ended some time before. Hollywood put out 365 movies in 1939; a pretty good indication that they had some money already.

@Rainkit Movies don't win Grammys, they win Oscars.

@Rainkit Movies don't win Grammys, they win Oscars.

@lil Dice thirst of clout? Wtf those were the 1930s. They were fighting for money to stay alive

@lil Dice thirst of clout? Wtf those were the 1930s. They were fighting for money to stay alive

@JOSHUA KANE And where did they get the idea?

@JOSHUA KANE And where did they get the idea?

@Scätman The suit could be opened at the back and the actor (usually Haruo Nakajima) could get a breather that way-- and the occasional tea break.

@MaskedMan66 talking to my elders about their parents & research on safety restrictions & why they came about.

@MaskedMan66 talking to my elders about their parents & research on safety restrictions & why they came about.

@Daywalker373 He could open his mouth; all you have to do with watch the movie to see just how wide he could open his mouth! lol  As for "sweating like crazy," thousands of actors have done that.

@Maximized Animation No, it came from two lions brought down on a safari.

@Maximized Animation No, it came from two lions brought down on a safari.

@JOSHUA KANE LOL  Where on earth did you get an idea like that?

@JOSHUA KANE LOL  Where on earth did you get an idea like that?

@JOSHUA KANE Yes, because EVERYONE wore a 100 pound lion suit "back then".

@JOSHUA KANE Yes, because EVERYONE wore a 100 pound lion suit "back then".

Yea I was thinking about it.....I couldn't do it. I know I would be sitting there, sweating like crazy and the feeling of being weighed down and unable to fully open my mouth.....I would have a full on panic attack

I have a theory: the lion hide they used for the suit was from one of the MGM lions when they died of old age

I have a theory: the lion hide they used for the suit was from one of the MGM lions when they died of old age

@The Tony Tony... No there is not. It's fooken barbaric :')

@The Tony Tony... No there is not. It's fooken barbaric :')

@Franklin Brooks stopped commenting on PS Vita an AVGN reference in the wild 🧐

@Franklin Brooks stopped commenting on PS Vita an AVGN reference in the wild 🧐

It was more like 75 pounds, and it was simply a case of playing a character. Lahr didn't like the suit, but he dealt with it. What else does one do? He was not the first actor to wear a heavy, uncomfortable costume, and he most certainly was not the last.

People were tougher in those days. Their daily life would leave you in ruins.

People were tougher in those days. Their daily life would leave you in ruins.

@Scätman, Yep, it wasn't a pleasant experience to act like a monster with that much bulk.

@Scätman, Yep, it wasn't a pleasant experience to act like a monster with that much bulk.

Your Cordial Vermillion Chap With A Squeaky Mallet

@tripplefives Ahhhhh we all know the weight our boys carry is so high that it wrecks their knees and spines. Then, the VA shafts them. Some people get it. I'm disappointed a bunch of people in the comments don't know the way in which our Army and Marines give their knee function for their country haha..

Well there was the original Japanese Actor that played Godzilla remarked that the costume was also hefty to a degree.

Well there was the original Japanese Actor that played Godzilla remarked that the costume was also hefty to a degree.

Even as a furry I'd say fuck no. But they also had a big paycheck at the end of the tunnel so I could see why they would deal with it

My mom's favorite film is Gone with the wind, and boy that movie makes what happened behind the scenes with the Wizard of Oz look tame. The black actors didn't like playing stereotypical slaves but they weren't allowed to complain or they'd be replaced. There are multiple scenes of characters slapping each other. Those slaps are real. Several actors left the set with hurt jaws.
And to add the sugar on top, when the film won a Grammy the black actors couldn't go because they were black.
I don't know why my mom likes it tbh. The film is about a sociopath who no one in-universe likes. All the actors hated their characters. And of course it romanticizes the old south. But ya know, at least it's not Birth of a Nation lol

A lot of people are saying that he did it for the fame but I don't think you realize how horrible working in Hollywood was back then. There were no unions and thus workers had no rights. Long shooting hours and drugs were common. Hell, the 1928 movie Noah and the great flood had 3 actors die on set and they kept their deaths in the film.

That was nothing for actors back then. Death and injury were common and actors were replaceable. Either you took the job or they got someone else to do it, and the depression meant that people were desperate for any amount of money.

@tripplefives try wearing a few sweaters under all that. see what happens when you can't sweat. the weight was not the main issue.

The furries called they want to eat your words

The furries called they want to eat your words

The original Godzilla suit weighed 200lb and the actor’s sweat would pool up to the ankles. It took 3 hours to just put on the suit with no way to eat, drink or use the bathroom.

Give me some millions and I would do it :)

Give me some millions and I would do it :)

@tripplefivesmissing the point muppet, difference is you have to be in iraq type weather for it to be hot, otherwise its just weight, and the lion suit was surrounded by lights that make it iraq weather on top of the fur on top of 100lb+ weight...

@tripplefives but do they have a shit ton of thick lion fur? no, no they do not.

@tripplefives but do they have a shit ton of thick lion fur? no, no they do not.

I mean, I'm sure plenty of furries would disagree

I mean, I'm sure plenty of furries would disagree

I feel like there were a lot of things the studio wasn’t telling the actors about the set conditions

I feel like there were a lot of things the studio wasn’t telling the actors about the set conditions

When people have the thirst for clout they're capable of unimaginable things...

When people have the thirst for clout they're capable of unimaginable things...

There is something pretty badass about wearing an actual lion pelt though.

There is something pretty badass about wearing an actual lion pelt though.


Margaret Hamilton, when not playing one of the scariest villains of your childhood, was an elementary school teacher. Take that however you will.

@Hunter Bernard She didn't endure any "torturous conditions" apart from an uncomfortable corset she never complained about and the hot lights everybody had to deal with.

Ironically she was probably the sweetest individual on set, maybe outside of a young and ambitious Judy Garland, although I'm sure Garland had so much pain hidden inside from not only her poor self image, but the torturous conditions she endured.

@Michael Crockis Stunt doubles had been around since almost the beginning of movies; in fact, Margaret Hamilton's stunt double Betty Danko received her worst work-related injury on an earlier film where her left foot was almost bitten off by a mountain lion.

@ManYoureAStrangeAnimal I don't understand your last sentence.

Women were pretty much teachers, nurses or secretaries and that's really it. Well, other than housewife/homemaker, anyway.

It's just strange thinking back to a time before we were born where STEM was not for women on any level. Be pretty but not too smart. They weren't less smart, they were just crazy overqualified for their professions.

Today's students no longer have truly gifted women because they go on to be researchers, doctors, engineers, etc.

@ObviousTrollFrom2007 Considering that most of Sesame Street's audience is preschoolers, I would say so.  And yes, I am familiar with the episode.

@HotWax93 Don't forget that one infamous episode of Sesame Street that she appeared in. It's said that because there were so many kids frightened by her, the episode had been banned since then, never to air again. But it's like, was it really that bad?

@Jennie Seiber Or had she? Was the conception of stung doubles invented yet?

@Jennie Seiber Not in this case, because it wasn't meant to be a stunt.

The way it had been arranged and rehearsed, Miss Hamilton was to have been lowered by an elevator under the stage, after which the flames were to go up.

The first take, it went perfectly. Then everyone broke for lunch. Afterwards, things started going wrong. On one take, she was lowered under the stage, then the flames failed to ignite. On whichever take the accident happened, the flames went up too soon, while Miss Hamilton was still "in transit," as it were.

I just realized.... she had a stunt double.... so why was she personally having to deal with the pyrotechnics shots... isn't that kind of thing the literal reason for a stunt double?

Most of the elementary school teachers I know could do the trick.

@MaskedMan66 I know right. Very often the people who play the villains are actually the nicest people in reality.

@Xehanort10 You have to wonder if the kids begged her to do the voice and the laugh. :-)

"I'll teach you my pretties. Ha ha ha ha ha ha."

@Oceiano Maybe nowadays, when chronic selfishness has become the norm, but even now, and certainly back when Miss Hamilton was teaching, people actually wanted to learn.

Teachers thoughts usually get thrown under the bus. Mostly because most Individuals don't like being told what to do.

@HotWax93 Not in the 50's when she was teaching Sunday School.

@HotWax93 I remember seeing that when it aired.

I know.  She actually appeared on an episode of Mr. Rogers back in the 70s where she explained that she was just an actress and not really a witch.

@MaskedMan66 I think she was an atheist.

@Melon Holmes <b>smh</b>  When I said, "I don't know," I didn't mean I didn't know what he MEANT, I meant that I have no personal experience of meeting any rude people (and that's all you had to say) who had played heroes.

@Melon Holmes *smh*  When I said, "I don't know," I didn't mean I didn't know what he MEANT, I meant that I have no personal experience of meeting any rude people (and that's all you had to say) who had played heroes.

@James Green I don't know about vice versa, but I've met a lot of people who have played villains, and they've all been very nice people. A sample list is Dave Prowse, Jacqueline Pearce, and three portrayers of the Master from "Doctor Who," Geoffrey Beevers, Anthony Ainley, and Eric Roberts.

It’s usually the bad guys who are the nice ones in reality & visa versa…

I'm guess not one of her students ever missed an assignment.


2019: Alabama man, 35, is charged with illegally owning an attack squirrel he fed meth and called Deez Nuts

1939: Judy Garland legally fed meth by movie producers

2019: Alabama man, 35, is charged with illegally owning an attack squirrel he fed meth and called Deez Nuts

1939: *Judy Garland legally fed meth by movie producers*

@trevortornadoes122 Which is yet more as to why I feel so sorry for her, the poor angel.

@trevortornadoes122 Which is yet more as to why I feel so sorry for her, the poor angel.

It was a different time then, back when meth and cocaine were actually legal.<br>That and because I think it’s no laughing matter due mostly to how much of a personal hell she had to undergo, I feel so sorry for her.

It was a different time then, back when meth and cocaine were actually legal.
That and because I think it’s no laughing matter due mostly to how much of a personal hell she had to undergo, I feel so sorry for her.

@MaskedMan66 yes people are taken advantage of in this sad excuse of a movie

@MaskedMan66 yes people are taken advantage of in this sad excuse of a movie

@James Green no wonder why the blitzkreigs were so fast

@James Green no wonder why the blitzkreigs were so fast

@Nicole G Nope. Nobody did. People gotta sleep.

@Nicole G Nope. Nobody did. People gotta sleep.

@MaskedMan66 I thought it was documented that she worked like 16 hour days

@MaskedMan66 I thought it was documented that she worked like 16 hour days

@Helladamnleet Besides which, Judy needed no medicinal "help" while making <i>Wizard</i> since she only worked for four hours a day.

@Helladamnleet Besides which, Judy needed no medicinal "help" while making _Wizard_ since she only worked for four hours a day.

@MR. CLAW! She wasn't talking about "Wizard." California child labor laws were very clear, and the filming day, like most work days, was eight hours long, and she was only allowed to work half of that. At least two hours were given to sessions with the lady who acted as studio tutor (Judy was in school, you see), and the rest was free time.

@Overlandlord So I've been told. I was just ribbing you about the way you spelled "erupted." No offense, I hope. 😃

@Overlandlord So I've been told. I was just ribbing you about the way you spelled "erupted." No offense, I hope. 😃

@MaskedMan66 krakatoa produced the loudest sound in human history.

@MaskedMan66 krakatoa produced the loudest sound in human history.

1883: Indonesian volcano earrapes local inhabitants.

1883: Indonesian volcano earrapes local inhabitants.

@James Green then there is that Finnish soldier who took 30 of those pills and survived...and died at the age of 75

@James Green then there is that Finnish soldier who took 30 of those pills and survived...and died at the age of 75

@Lando 530   I think the reason why people talk about it is that they conflate Judy's later life and career with her early life and career. Judy was not a bonafide star until after "Wizard" was released. It was then that MGM wanted to get her in front of the public as often and as quickly as possible.

That, of course, was when the overwork began, aided by amphetamines to keep her energy levels up and barbiturates to relax her. But none of that was anything to do with "Wizard";  Judy only worked for four hours a day on that project, and she had tons of natural energy. Did you know that she could swim a mile? Truth!

(Her being a "star of lesser magnitude," so to speak, was one of the reasons that the MGM suits wanted Mervyn LeRoy to get someone else for the role of Dorothy. He was taking a  gamble, and obviously it paid off. But not before the project became known as "LeRoy's Folly" before it was even completed.)

@MaskedMan66 I am interested in your opinion; if there was no intentional drug feeding or encouragement, why are there so many articles repeating it? Could you give a theory?

@redeyesinc You're the one who won't let go of the false notion of a child being victimized.

@redeyesinc You're the one who won't let go of the false notion of a child being victimized.

@trevortornadoes122 trust me this guy is not joking.<br>There comes a point where a troll becomes a troglodyte.

@trevortornadoes122 trust me this guy is not joking.
There comes a point where a troll becomes a troglodyte.

@Kirk Bupkis you’re right man, their were many factors to that led legendary shit fest. Hopefully there’s another thread like that underway that people don’t know about

@DOC O.G. Lol I don't think a relatively civil discussion about Judy Garland's drug addiction is anywhere close to as trivial as a year-long flamewar about the best final boss song in the Paper Mario series.

KEEP ARGUING I WANT A NEW ARAMARU/DAVE MATTHEW FIGHT

KEEP ARGUING I WANT A NEW ARAMARU/DAVE MATTHEW FIGHT

@the VINDICATOR I'll be here, ready to debunk it.

@the VINDICATOR I'll be here, ready to debunk it.

@MaskedMan66  sound crew and film crew admitted this as well as Judy herself I'll link some stuff later cause I got work in the morning

@the VINDICATOR Whose sources? Which members of the production crew? What were their names and jobs? How did they avoid getting interviewed by Aljean Harmetz when she was compiling on set memories from 48 actors and behind-the-scenes people for her 1977 book "The Making of The Wizard of Oz?"

Here's the truth, as related by Jay Scarfone and William Stillman in their book  "The Road to Oz: The Evolution, Creation, and Legacy of a Motion Picture Masterpiece": Victor Fleming ordered regular breaks throughout the day because everybody needed to rest from the blazing hot lights. Judy only worked for four hours each filming day.

@MaskedMan66  hey I checked his sources and a lot of others but a lot of signs and some of the production crew admitted that the use of drugs was heavilly emphasised as they said it would help her work better and more efficiently without break

@trevortornadoes122 yeah it seems like you deleted those five so…

@trevortornadoes122 yeah it seems like you deleted those five so…

@D And she wasn't given it for any reason while this movie was being made. If she took any meds at all, it was at home.

@D And she wasn't given it for any reason while this movie was being made. If she took any meds at all, it was at home.

@trevortornadoes122 She was given Benzedrine which is amphetamine. Not meth

@trevortornadoes122 She was given Benzedrine which is amphetamine. Not meth

@MaskedMan66 Tokens to you my man for keeping your debate civil. Not many people are capable of that on this platform anymore

@MaskedMan66 Tokens to you my man for keeping your debate civil. Not many people are capable of that on this platform anymore

@Plagued Frost Fair enough; I just wanted to be sure I wasn't going mad. Let me guess: wonderful modern technology?

@Plagued Frost Fair enough; I just wanted to be sure I wasn't going mad. Let me guess: wonderful modern technology?

@MaskedMan66 <br>Sorry, I was dying, JUDY GARLAND, the woman that played Dorothy... (not yelling in anger but in exhaustion...)

@MaskedMan66
Sorry, I was dying, JUDY GARLAND, the woman that played Dorothy... (not yelling in anger but in exhaustion...)

@Plagued Frost Spoken like a grownup; thank you. Now, who's Garfield? I feel like I've missed something.

@Plagued Frost Spoken like a grownup; thank you. Now, who's Garfield? I feel like I've missed something.

@MaskedMan66 <br>Fair, sorry about the insinuation; also, I meant to type Garfield. My bad... ;)

@MaskedMan66
Fair, sorry about the insinuation; also, I meant to type Garfield. My bad... ;)

@Plagued Frost Not from anything I've heard; how many alcoholics have insisted, "I don't have a problem?" I didn't say they were either deluded or stupid; don't put words in my mouth. It's simply an observed phenomenon.

Who is Glenn?

The medicine was prescribed.

@Plagued Frost Not from anything I've heard; how many alcoholics have insisted, "I don't have a problem?" I didn't say they were either deluded or stupid; don't put words in my mouth. It's simply an observed phenomenon.

Who is Glenn?

The medicine *was* prescribed.

@MaskedMan66
I disagree with you first statement heavily. Every addict had moments of clarity, and if the drugs have fucked you up enough, you can admit to yourself and others that you are addicted.
Just because you admit you’re an addict doesn’t mean you’ll stop. There are plenty of addicts that can point to where and when they got addicted and for what reason, that doesn’t mean they’ll stop. But to suggest every addict is either too deluded or stupid to come to terms with their addiction, shows ignorance when it comes to the topic of addiction.

Second, I know you cited your sources, which I commend you for doing. But every article or video I watch/read says something about people either insulting Glenn (pig/ugly/fat) or them encouraging/administering her amphetamines; So how do we know your sources aren’t faulty, or that every source is a mixture of truth and misconception; The only one that know how Glenn got addicted was herself, and that’s why i wanted her testimony.

Third, letting any kid (Frances Gumm) for this example take unprescribed medicine, is either considered neglect or abuse, pick your poison it’s still fucked even if they did it all on there own.

@Plagued Frost No addict believes himself to be an addict. I'm sure she had to have someone point it out to her.

Nobody on "Wizard" called Judy fat or ugly.

For what little it's worth, 13 year-old Frances Gumm was not "pressured" by her mother to use either amphetamines or barbiturates. Having no frame of reference as a child, she didn't know she was getting into something that would affect her life.

@MaskedMan66
Isn’t calling a child fat and ugly when you have a major power imbalance above then a bit abusive...?
... and while I haven’t found a source that says exactly where the pills came from, I did find many that said the studio encouraged them for her thin physique.
Which I’m pretty sure pressuring a child into taking drugs, even if it’s not where here addiction started is still fucked...

@MaskedMan66 Is it ever clarified in those examples when she felt her addiction started...?

@MaskedMan66 Is it ever clarified in those examples when she felt her addiction started...?

@That’s one smug wojak <b>smh</b>   She was abused NEITHER verbally NOR physically. She wasn't abused at all. The Singer Midgets were just people, not animals. Conditions were no different than on any other motion picture; it was hard work, but that's all it was. Nobody deliberately maltreated them

@That’s one smug wojak *smh*   She was abused NEITHER verbally NOR physically. She wasn't abused at all. The Singer Midgets were just people, not animals. Conditions were no different than on any other motion picture; it was hard work, but that's all it was. Nobody deliberately maltreated them

@trevortornadoes122 You might say that, yup. :-)

@trevortornadoes122 You might say that, yup. :-)

@MaskedMan66 Okay I'll give you that one. Surely I can imagine you've been in more intense flame wars than this one though!

@MaskedMan66 Okay I'll give you that one. Surely I can imagine you've been in more intense flame wars than this one though!

@trevortornadoes122 Not when you said, "You're right. Hollywood has always been a beautiful place and there has never been any mistreatment of actors and never been any scandalsYou're right. Hollywood has always been a beautiful place and there has never been any mistreatment of actors and never been any scandals." That was addressed to me.

@MaskedMan66 I was talking to the other guy.

@MaskedMan66 I was talking to the other guy.

@trevortornadoes122 I never said that. Calm down.

@trevortornadoes122 I never said that. Calm down.

@Anon Had a feeling you'd make some wise-ass comment about me being defensive. How predictable.

Don't mind me asking what "my own false construction" of the argument that Judy Garland was encouraged to take meth by the studio is. I've cited five different sources to prove this and along with EmpLemon's video, also proves a larger point that Hollywood is a shady place and always has been regardless of what "Hollywood historians" tell you. Everything is valid.

Obviously you're not going to agree with me, but that's your free will.

@trevortornadoes122 You're being really weirdly defensive right now. "Attacking a strawman" is just a turn of phrase, used to signal that you're no longer tackling the actual arguments at hand, but your own false construction thereof. I would, in fact, <b>prefer</b> to agree with you.

@trevortornadoes122 You're being really weirdly defensive right now. "Attacking a strawman" is just a turn of phrase, used to signal that you're no longer tackling the actual arguments at hand, but your own false construction thereof. I would, in fact, *prefer* to agree with you.

@Anon Want to talk about a fallacy? First of all I never attacked anyone, you're putting words in my mouth.

Secondly, if five sources isn't enough than what is in your humble opinion?

@trevortornadoes122 I'm just here to point out your fallacy. As much as I'd have preferred to agree with you throughout this thread, you had yet to source any valid argument and then ended up building and attacking a strawman.

I suppose I'd rather read than be wrong, yes. Ideally using a number of sources.

@Anon Would you rather read books written by so-called "Hollywood historians" whose entire careers revolve around trying to cover Hollywood's ass?

@MaskedMan66 You're right. Hollywood has always been a beautiful place and there has never been any mistreatment of actors and never been any scandals.

@UChX06ZCNEiPKdEJjDE9SrVA Not knowing you from Adam, I don't see how.

All of those articles regurgitate the misconception/lie that Judy was required to use meds while working on "Wizard."

The Biography one was the worst. "Garland would endure excruciatingly long work hours." BS! She only worked for four hours a day, because she was a minor, and California child labor laws were very clear on that matter.

Judy's weight loss (which was really an attempt to lessen her mature curves) was brought about by a reduced food intake diet (which did include solid food) and exercise. Her stunt double Bobbie Koshay had been on the 1928 Olympic Swim team, and she took Judy on swimming excursions and hikes, as well as playing tennis and badminton with her. Judy was also not required to smoke, a practice she was against in her teens.

What people always get confused about is the time frame of when Judy's problems really started. When she made "Wizard," she was not yet a top-level star at MGM; in the first place, she'd only been there for three years. Mervyn LeRoy, the producer, was taking a gamble by putting her in the lead, but he knew she had the talent to do the role justice, and he would consider no-one else. "Wizard" was what made her a box office sensation, and it was after that that the studio decided they had to get her in front of the public as often as possible. That was when the overwork started, especially once she was old enough to where the child labor laws no longer applied.

For the real story, you need to read these books: “The Making of The Wizard of Oz" (1977) by Aljean Harmetz, "The Wizard of Oz: The Official 50th Anniversary Pictorial History" (1989) by John Fricke, Jay Scarfone, and William Stillman, and "The Road to Oz: The Evolution, Creation, and Legacy of a Motion Picture Masterpiece" (2019) by Scarfone and Stillman. The first two you'll probably need to hunt up, but the third is still in bookstores.

@UChX06ZCNEiPKdEJjDE9SrVA Not knowing you from Adam, I don't see how.

All of those articles regurgitate the misconception/lie that Judy was required to use meds while working on "Wizard."

The Biography one was the worst. "Garland would endure excruciatingly long work hours." BS! She only worked for four hours a day, because she was a minor, and California child labor laws were very clear on that matter.

Judy's weight loss (which was really an attempt to lessen her mature curves) was brought about by a reduced food intake diet (which did include solid food) and exercise. Her stunt double Bobbie Koshay had been on the 1928 Olympic Swim team, and she took Judy on swimming excursions and hikes, as well as playing tennis and badminton with her. Judy was also not required to smoke, a practice she was against in her teens.

What people always get confused about is the time frame of when Judy's problems really started. When she made "Wizard," she was not yet a top-level star at MGM; in the first place, she'd only been there for three years. Mervyn LeRoy, the producer, was taking a gamble by putting her in the lead, but he knew she had the talent to do the role justice, and he would consider no-one else. "Wizard" was what made her a box office sensation, and it was *after* that that the studio decided they had to get her in front of the public as often as possible. *That* was when the overwork started, especially once she was old enough to where the child labor laws no longer applied.

For the real story, you need to read these books: “The Making of The Wizard of Oz" (1977) by Aljean Harmetz, "The Wizard of Oz: The Official 50th Anniversary Pictorial History" (1989) by John Fricke, Jay Scarfone, and William Stillman, and "The Road to Oz: The Evolution, Creation, and Legacy of a Motion Picture Masterpiece" (2019) by Scarfone and Stillman. The first two you'll probably need to hunt up, but the third is still in bookstores.

@trevortornadoes122 You did. "Garland was already addicted to amphetamines and barbiturates (or "pep pills" as the film producers called em)."

Let's see your "sources." See of you can find confirmation of that notion from John Fricke.

@MaskedMan66 "You spoke of both as being pep pills"
Not what I said, but okay.

It wasn't just the producer. Most of the crew encouraged the use of stimulants. Would you like me to provide sources?

@trevortornadoes122 Okay, in the first place, there was only one producer on "Wizard." He never recommended drugs for anybody. And when I said that Judy only worked for four hours, that didn't mean the rest of the cast and crew did; it was an eight-hour day, but Judy being a minor was only allowed to work half of that time. The rest was given to school with the on-set tutor and recreation, though I would guess that some of her recreation was sitting and watching the others at work.

Ethel Gumm introduced Judy to those meds (you spoke of both as being "pep pills") when she was thirteen. But they were not a daily thing.

@MaskedMan66 I know what barbiturates are. Amphetamines are "pep pills".

I guess working only four hour days would make sense given the sheer amount of preparation behind the scenes, but that doesn't change the fact that the use of stimulants was encouraged by the producers. There are also reports that Garland's own mother introduced her to amphetamines at the age of 10.

@trevortornadoes122 No, not at that time, because she didn't take any while making "Wizard." She only worked for four hours a day on that film.

Barbiturates, by the way, are depressants, not "pep pills."

@MaskedMan66 By the time filming concluded in 1939 Garland was already addicted to amphetamines and barbiturates (or "pep pills" as the film producers called em). She remained an addict into adulthood, or essentially the rest of her life.

@MaskedMan66 Can't tell if you're joking or not but you seriously need to do some research. Garland's methamphetamine addiction was well-documented.

She was not "fed meth." She only worked for four hours a day and had natural energy.

She was not "fed meth." She only worked for four hours a day and had natural energy.


I love how at 19:45, he starts playing a version of “Any Color You Like” from Pink Floyd’s “Dark Side of the Moon,” an album which was rumored to be perfectly synced as a secondary soundtrack to the Wizard of Oz. I also love that he put a rainbow over a triangle shaped object, a nice little nod to the album’s cover art. Good stuff!

@Neyoid I've found that pretty much any piece of music syncs up with any film or T.V. footage if you catch it right. :-)

Also, in a similar vein, Paul Blart Mall Cop 2 is apparently synced up with Dark Side Of The Moon. Also, Paul Blart 1 is apparently synced up with The Wall too.

I enjoyed that reference, but he also lost me in trying to justify the "glorious work."

When I initially watched this video (when it came out) I had not heard of "Dark side or rainbow", but after watching it this second time, I was looking out for a reference, and I was happy to hear the song. (After watching the movie synced with the album. (In it's entirety on youtube by the way.))

That whole ending gave me chills. It’s what makes this video one of Emplemon’s best non-YTP videos imo

@Ryan McDonnell Not that there's any real connection. Among the people involved in the making of it, if peripherally, Arthur Freed blotted his copybook in a big way two years later by flashing Shirley Temple. But apart from that, the folks before and behind the cameras in that movie were generally pretty straight-up people.

Also the title of the video is "The Wizard of Oz and the Dark Side of Hollywood," I'm sure that was intentional.

@magic Fair enough; I figured y'all were talking about the cover of "Dark Side of the Moon." I'll confess I didn't take note of the time stamp.

@MaskedMan66 they were referring to the triangle shaped object at 19:45

@magic It's a prism; dig the refracted light.

@MaskedMan66 the "triangle shaped object" is a pyramid lol

I noticed that easter egg in the video too! Glad I'm not the only one to notice it

The "triangle shaped object" is a prism; if light is refracted through a prism, you get a rainbow.


as a fan of judy garland i knew about 95% of this already but seeing it all put together and edited by you really puts into perspective how catastrophic this production really was

@BTS: Behind The Screen That doesn't matter; I'm telling the truth. Read these books for the inside scoop: "The Making of The Wizard of Oz" (1977) by Aljean Harmetz with an introduction by Margaret Hamilton, "The Wizard of Oz: The Official 50th Anniversary Pictorial History" (1989) by John Fricke, Jay Scarfone, and William Stillman with an introduction by Jack Haley, Jr., and "The Road to Oz: The Evolution, Creation, and Legacy of a Motion Picture Masterpiece" (2019) by Scarfone and Stillman.

@BTS: Behind The Screen Y'see: this isn't about me. ;-)

@BTS: Behind The Screen MGM hasn't existed for years, and as an adoptee I have no idea as regards ancestry. I'm just here giving the right info, and the sources where you can find it.

@MaskedMan66 you are under every comment here. I have to assume you personally are a descendant of one of the makers of this movie or are paid by MGM.

@Joseph Davies No need to bother, this guy has been furiously commenting for months. it's insane and sad

@Joseph Davies I can recommend you some books: "The Making of The Wizard of Oz" (1977) by Aljean Harmetz with an introduction by Margaret Hamilton, "The Wizard of Oz: The Official 50th Anniversary Pictorial History" (1989) by John Fricke, Jay Scarfone, and William Stillman with an introduction by Jack Haley, Jr., and "The Road to Oz: The Evolution, Creation, and Legacy of a Motion Picture Masterpiece" (2019) by Scarfone and Stillman.

@MaskedMan66 on the movie? I'm not super knowledgeable on the movie's production but I do agree that YouTubers do like to exaggerate their videos for the sake of content but I  can't judge this video because I don't know enough about the movie.

@Joseph Davies So what's your take on this movie?

@MaskedMan66 you've commented hundreds of times on this video.  Don't you have anything better to do? Seems like someone needs to go outside!

@Hassan Saeed Given some of the responses I've had, people are glad to know the truth; they frankly wonder about the people who have accepted the tall tales of drug abuse, suicide, and all the rest of it.

Here's the thing: while I'm not comparing myself to the man, I am comparing my situation to Galileo's; even though I'm relating the truth, as set down by historians, there are people who don't want to know, so they make the whole issue about me and ignore the facts, preferring the ridiculous rumors.

@MaskedMan66 Do you seriously not realize how insane you look to everyone else seeing your comments?

@Moon Fish It's still being nosy. My only "agenda" is getting the truth out. I can't help that 300 people need help in that regard.

@MaskedMan66 it’s not stalking, tapping ur pfp says “292 comments on this channel”, it’s just a feature on mobile YouTube. <br>Look, I get what you’re saying and don’t disagree with you, this video is very sensationalized and I don’t agree w a lot of it, but almost 300 comments on a single video genuinely makes you seem like you have an agenda behind correcting misinfo out of a passion for cinema history,

@MaskedMan66 it’s not stalking, tapping ur pfp says “292 comments on this channel”, it’s just a feature on mobile YouTube.
Look, I get what you’re saying and don’t disagree with you, this video is very sensationalized and I don’t agree w a lot of it, but almost 300 comments on a single video genuinely makes you seem like you have an agenda behind correcting misinfo out of a passion for cinema history,

@officialquakeroats You stalking me, "bro?"

@MaskedMan66 bro it says you have over 200 comments on this video get help

LOL  It wasn't catastrophic. There were accidents, yes, but they were few and far between, and everyone involved got through them intact. It was just a very involved and complex movie to make, but so was "Gone With the Wind," which had more problems than "Wizard."  But the cast and crew of "Wizard" were a solid team, and got the job done. This video is sensationalst and regurgitates a lot of rumor and lies. The real story is to be found in the books “The Making of The Wizard of Oz" (1977) by Aljean Harmetz, "The Wizard of Oz: The Official 50th Anniversary Pictorial History" (1989) by John Fricke, Jay Scarfone, and William Stillman, and "The Road to Oz: The Evolution, Creation, and Legacy of a Motion Picture Masterpiece" (2019) by Scarfone and Stillman.