The girl who lured the victim is a monster too.

The girl who lured the victim is a monster too.

"He's a monster. She's a monster".
At this point what does monster even mean?
Not trying to condone or anything, but this is the kind of thing is part of the problem.

"He's a monster. She's a monster".
At this point what does monster even mean?
Not trying to condone or anything, but this is the kind of thing is part of the problem.

@elbachsito would this crime happened without her complicity?

@elbachsito would this crime happened without her complicity?

the woman later admitted to deliver the blows that killed her

the woman later admitted to deliver the blows that killed her

People need to learn to chill tf out in these comments. These two are in jail already, your righteous anger at people who disagree with you is wasted and pointless

People need to learn to chill tf out in these comments. These two are in jail already, your righteous anger at people who disagree with you is wasted and pointless

@housecat what y’all don’t seem to understand is that he needed her to lure the child to him. This is what makes her just as guilty. Without her, he wouldn’t have ever had his chance. She was an adult and deserves to rot in jail for the rest of her life.

@housecat what y’all don’t seem to understand is that he needed her to lure the child to him. This is what makes her just as guilty. Without her, he wouldn’t have ever had his chance. She was an adult and deserves to rot in jail for the rest of her life.

@elbachsito She was 18. She is old enough to know that being told to abduct a young girl is not something you do. Regardless of how she thought it would end.

@elbachsito She was 18. She is old enough to know that being told to abduct a young girl is not something you do. Regardless of how she thought it would end.

@Aron Vanhaeverbeke violating human rights gets jail time. The other societal restrictions are just add-ons based off of the emotional toll the crime took on all parties.

@Aron Vanhaeverbeke violating human rights gets jail time. The other societal restrictions are just add-ons based off of the emotional toll the crime took on all parties.

@elbachsito I mean, while I can see where you’re coming from, if I was Tori’s mother, I wouldn’t care what that woman was going through cause at the end of it all, Terrilynn still lured that child into his van, and led her to her death, and even if she was alive, she was lured by that woman to a place where she was psychologically traumatized irreversibly. She might’ve been 18, but she was old enough to know that it was wrong.So there’s no sympathy from her on my end.

@elbachsito Then you fell for her game. After the trial more evidence came out, shes actually the one who delivered the killing blows to Tori. She spilled the beans in 40 minutes because she realized the best thing for her self interest is attempting to pin everything on her boyfriend.

@elbachsito Then you fell for her game. After the trial more evidence came out, shes actually the one who delivered the killing blows to Tori. She spilled the beans in 40 minutes because she realized the best thing for her self interest is attempting to pin everything on her boyfriend.

@Ghost of GG that's gross man. And even though youtube won't remove, your comment was gross and sexist

@Ghost of GG that's gross man. And even though youtube won't remove, your comment was gross and sexist

@Aron Vanhaeverbeke She definitely deserves that an more, nobody could've of imagined she was the killer, but she was.

@Aron Vanhaeverbeke She definitely deserves that an more, nobody could've of imagined she was the killer, but she was.

@elbachsito No Terri was actually the one who murdered the little girl. You can look it up if you want

@elbachsito No Terri was actually the one who murdered the little girl. You can look it up if you want

The girl being 18 doesn’t matter she knew what she was doing it would be different if she was 13 years old.. but if you hear a young child calling ur name for help automatically would call the police or get some help , also she lured the child to the boyfriend .. doesn’t she think of why her boyfriend would ask for an 8 year old child she is sick and deserves her sentence of life.. no excuses even if a  16-17 year old child was dating an older guy and asked them to bring them they know better when I was that age you know better there is NO EXCUSE FOR THIS SHE IS JUST AS SICK IS HE IS !

Yep she participated a lot more and got lige in prison too.

Yep she participated a lot more and got lige in prison too.

@savannah locke No i dont think it was. I was just referring to my gutfeeling (im Swedish) and i believe here she would've gotten away with alot less time.<br>The last statistic i remember in Sweden is Females get 30% less prison time for the same offense (especially the harsh once like murder, childrape etc). Sometimes even less. But our justice system is reverse compared to the US. In the US alot of crimes are judged to harsh. Whilst here in Sweden almost all crimes are judged way to lenient.

@savannah locke No i dont think it was. I was just referring to my gutfeeling (im Swedish) and i believe here she would've gotten away with alot less time.
The last statistic i remember in Sweden is Females get 30% less prison time for the same offense (especially the harsh once like murder, childrape etc). Sometimes even less. But our justice system is reverse compared to the US. In the US alot of crimes are judged to harsh. Whilst here in Sweden almost all crimes are judged way to lenient.

@Fredrikbb good! Sorry i dont know if my comment was in aa reply ro yours or whoever elses but someone mentioned that she doesn’t deserve the same punishment and i believe she most certainly does, im glad she got the same sentence

@Fredrikbb good! Sorry i dont know if my comment was in aa reply ro yours or whoever elses but someone mentioned that she doesn’t deserve the same punishment and i believe she most certainly does, im glad she got the same sentence

So glad as i said in another comment. This is probably the first time in Canadian history she didn't receive female privilege. She actually got the same sentence as the man.

So glad as i said in another comment. This is probably the first time in Canadian history she didn't receive female privilege. She actually got the same sentence as the man.

@elbachsito at 12 i would have known not to do something like that.. she deserves to rot every second of her life like the monster who physically did that to the little girl.. just cause she wasnt the one to rape and kill her doesnt mean she wasnt responsible for it.

@elbachsito at 12 i would have known not to do something like that.. she deserves to rot every second of her life like the monster who physically did that to the little girl.. just cause she wasnt the one to rape and kill her doesnt mean she wasnt responsible for it.

She was upset when she went back to the car not cause he was hurting the baby cause she wasn't getting the attention.

She was upset when she went back to the car not cause he was hurting the baby cause she wasn't getting the attention.

@Mastashake I think anyone who doesn't think she doesn't deserve death, have thought about doing similar or even have done it. Makes me sick.

@Mastashake I think anyone who doesn't think she doesn't deserve death, have thought about doing similar or even have done it. Makes me sick.

@Kantanen Akseli an emotional response to this sort of crime to  someone who doesn't think the lady deserves life after hitting an 8 year old with an hammer, seems normal behaviour. She be fooking dead if that was my girl..

@Kantanen Akseli an emotional response to this sort of crime to  someone who doesn't think the lady deserves life after hitting an 8 year old with an hammer, seems normal behaviour. She be fooking dead if that was my girl..

@Aron Vanhaeverbeke without her he would have never had a chance to do it

@Aron Vanhaeverbeke without her he would have never had a chance to do it

@elbachsito how the hell is this, get 385 likes. Yes of course the innocent little woman who lured the girl to her death is just a magical fairy princess at 18.

She can go to war, she can drive a car she can vote, she can buy a gun she can lure a girl to her death

@elbachsito how the hell is this, get 385 likes. Yes of course the innocent little woman who lured the girl to her death is just a magical fairy princess at 18.

She can go to war, she can drive a car she can vote, she can buy a gun she can lure a girl to her death

@elbachsito hey could you go over a girl so we can play barbies. She knew exactly what was going to fucking happen

@elbachsito hey could you go over a girl so we can play barbies. She knew exactly what was going to fucking happen

@Great Minds101 My remarks would be the same if it were an 18y old male.

@Great Minds101 My remarks would be the same if it were an 18y old male.

@elbachsito she knew damn well what he was going to do...she lured a little girl to be raped and murdered and you're making excuses for her?!...nothing to do with age, you know what's wrong and right if you're a decent human being ..she's almost worse than him because a woman should have protective instincts towards a child...she's right where she should be!!!

@Aron Vanhaeverbeke If she was an 18 year old man instead, I wonder if you'd think the same? She kidnapped a kid, and was there as she was molested then murdered.  She sheds tears and says she turned her head away, but so have many women who have been involved in these cases.  What if they hadn't been caught and he offended again? In my opinion, it's as if she beat that kid to death too. She should be severely punished because she complied with it by remaining silent.

Absolutely agree. Pure evil, just watched her interview too

Absolutely agree. Pure evil, just watched her interview too

@Julie Exel she has a past of violence including microwaving dogs. She testified that she kicked, broke rips, and ultimately killed the girl with a hammer. I would consider her a monster but to each is own.

@Julie Exel she has a past of violence including microwaving dogs. She testified that she kicked, broke rips, and ultimately killed the girl with a hammer. I would consider her a monster but to each is own.

@elbachsito I'm 17 and I know that if a grown man asks me to lure a minor to him I know that's gonna get into some deep shit, and I would have probably known that since I was 13 or possibly before. No excuse for all, what a monster, both people.

@elbachsito I'm 17 and I know that if a grown man asks me to lure a minor to him I know that's gonna get into some deep shit, and I would have probably known that since I was 13 or possibly before. No excuse for all, what a monster, both people.

@elbachsito she was 18, that is old enough to know not to abduct a child

@elbachsito she was 18, that is old enough to know not to abduct a child

She's just as guilty. She facilitated it

She's just as guilty. She facilitated it

@elbachsito she was 18, an adult, with a mind of her own she could’ve easily not done that it’s easy to yk not try to harm a kid. Don’t try to justify what she did with being young, she is sick and disturbed.

@elbachsito she was 18, an adult, with a mind of her own she could’ve easily not done that it’s easy to yk not try to harm a kid. Don’t try to justify what she did with being young, she is sick and disturbed.

@Aron Vanhaeverbeke she admitted to handing Michael the hammer.. she was very much involved and lied about how much she wasnt involved

@Aron Vanhaeverbeke she admitted to handing Michael the hammer.. she was very much involved and lied about how much she wasnt involved

@elbachsito 2 months old but oh well read another comment saying she admitted to hitting the girl with a hammer in prison. Take it as you will

@elbachsito 2 months old but oh well read another comment saying she admitted to hitting the girl with a hammer in prison. Take it as you will

@elbachsito she later admitted to administering some blows with the hammer herswlf

@elbachsito she later admitted to administering some blows with the hammer herswlf

For people downplaying her or acting like she was a victim, she had assaulted multiple people prior to this, microwaved a dog, and was very troubled way before meeting this scum bag. They’re both sociopaths.

For people downplaying her or acting like she was a victim, she had assaulted multiple people prior to this, microwaved a dog, and was very troubled way before meeting this scum bag. They’re both sociopaths.

MAyby this helps she delivered the final blow

MAyby this helps she delivered the final blow

@elbachsito ive heard she dealt the death blow.

@elbachsito ive heard she dealt the death blow.

@Sharangan S Thanks for letting me know she was charged for murder, that explains it to me!

@Sharangan S Thanks for letting me know she was charged for murder, that explains it to me!

@Yogibearemployee I am so sorry I have two sisters I couldn’t imagine what would happen to the both of them if they were gone I would be in total rage and vengeance

@Yogibearemployee I am so sorry I have two sisters I couldn’t imagine what would happen to the both of them if they were gone I would be in total rage and vengeance

@Aron Vanhaeverbeke they dont say this in the video but she was also charged for the murder and connected. google it<br> she deserved life sentence if not more.

@Aron Vanhaeverbeke they dont say this in the video but she was also charged for the murder and connected. google it
 she deserved life sentence if not more.

@elbachsito I'd wager if the other person were male they would get zero sympathy and no one would be suggesting they didn't deserve it.

@elbachsito I'd wager if the other person were male they would get zero sympathy and no one would be suggesting they didn't deserve it.

@elbachsito an 18 year old is not a kid. she was not some naive puppet in this, she knew at the very least that this child was going to get raped. there was also no mention of him coercing her to cooperate. also, she had <b>plenty</b> of opportunities to call the police. so yeah, you're wrong.

@elbachsito an 18 year old is not a kid. she was not some naive puppet in this, she knew at the very least that this child was going to get raped. there was also no mention of him coercing her to cooperate. also, she had *plenty* of opportunities to call the police. so yeah, you're wrong.

@elbachsito sure she wanted to please him but idk if luring an 8 year old who doesnt know any better to her death is the best idea to do that

@elbachsito sure she wanted to please him but idk if luring an 8 year old who doesnt know any better to her death is the best idea to do that

@Aron Vanhaeverbeke She was a legal adult that was involved directly in a premeditated murder and committed a kidnapping of an 8 year old. Very hard to justify much less when you really say it all out loud.

@Aron Vanhaeverbeke She was a legal adult that was involved directly in a premeditated murder and committed a kidnapping of an 8 year old. Very hard to justify much less when you really say it all out loud.

@elbachsito  “don’t wanna defend a criminal” goes on to defend a criminal

she is just as worse as this PoS imo. Tori might still be alive if she hadn’t lured her away to look at a “puppy”. Sorry pal, but at 18 years old you know damn well that if you lure a child off someplace that that child is never coming back.

You should feel ashamed imo for even attempting to justify her actions by saying “maybe she was coerced”. She was an adult who lured a child off to be raped and murdered by her friend.

@elbachsito  “don’t wanna defend a criminal” *goes on to defend a criminal*

she is just as worse as this PoS imo. Tori might still be alive if she hadn’t lured her away to look at a “puppy”. Sorry pal, but at 18 years old you know damn well that if you lure a child off someplace that that child is never coming back.

You should feel ashamed imo for even attempting to justify her actions by saying “maybe she was coerced”. She was an adult who lured a child off to be raped and murdered by her friend.

I was looking for this comment! What a sick nasty vile creature. The fact that she was 18 and a woman herself makes my blood boil

I was looking for this comment! What a sick nasty vile creature. The fact that she was 18 and a woman herself makes my blood boil

@Clarence Worley first part of what u write makes 0 sense, idk what ur even typing. 2nd part, try millions. Also try many well documented study's. Understand now?

@Clarence Worley first part of what u write makes 0 sense, idk what ur even typing. 2nd part, try millions. Also try many well documented study's. Understand now?

@Aron Vanhaeverbeke no you're wrong 1st if you read the other comment I said you saying exact same thing her defense attorney would say and want a reduced sentence.   2nd what a few people did during a war is not what most people would do.  Understand now?

@Aron Vanhaeverbeke no you're wrong 1st if you read the other comment I said you saying exact same thing her defense attorney would say and want a reduced sentence.   2nd what a few people did during a war is not what most people would do.  Understand now?

@Aron Vanhaeverbeke I didn't skip anything fool, read the other comment.   WW2 argument you are really reaching on that one, but ww2 has nothing to do with this

@Aron Vanhaeverbeke I didn't skip anything fool, read the other comment.   WW2 argument you are really reaching on that one, but ww2 has nothing to do with this

@Clarence Worley Yeah sureeee, people wouldn't be capable of doing so right? Oh wait, World war II anyone? It's not that long ago where normal day to day people turned into the kind of monsters commiting atrocityes (idk how u write the word and idc), or how about the prison experiment where they also took 2 groups of normal people?

But hey, if u ever kill someone I can just tell their parents that they would've done the same and we're fine right? What a way to run the justice system.

Also nice how u just skipped the part where I'm defending her, scared of making yourself look more foolish, yet chosing to insult me in your last line, nice

@Aron Vanhaeverbeke by my logic there are reasons I could kill someone, Rob a bank, and commit a lot of crimes, but under no circumstance would I ever have anything to do with a little girl getting raped and murdered.  It's one crime that that can't be ever justified in any way.   Most people have the ability to kill and Rob if the situation fits, and most people wouldn't be able to do that to a girl under any circumstances.   Understand the logic now genius?

@Clarence Worley Oh yes, I'm defending her so hard and sympathize with her so hard! That's why I said she deserves 40 years in jail right? Do people like you even read?

According to your logic we could just put life in jail on anything we don't see ourselves doing and 'they got what they deserved', good thinking.

@Clarence Worley Oh yes, I'm defending her so hard and sympathize with her so hard! That's why I said she deserves 40 years in jail right? Do people like you even read?

According to your logic we could just put life in jail on anything we don't see ourselves doing and 'they got what they deserved', good thinking.

You don’t need to live 18 years to know that it’s not okay to lure in a child to a predator.

You don’t need to live 18 years to know that it’s not okay to lure in a child to a predator.

@Julie Exel yes actually it was she who killed the child, it came out at the trail that she bashed her head open with a claw hammer she brought with her. She also had a violent history where she had put a dog in a microwave and turned it on, then she said that another dog had done it, the dog had to be put down. At 16 she also beat up her foster mom.

@Julie Exel yes actually it was she who killed the child, it came out at the trail that she bashed her head open with a claw hammer she brought with her. She also had a violent history where she had put a dog in a microwave and turned it on, then she said that another dog had done it, the dog had to be put down. At 16 she also beat up her foster mom.

@Aron Vanhaeverbeke civil enough answer for ya?   Now that we know what a sicko she was too, you still want to waste your time defending those kind of people, or you got something better to do?   Why sympathize with the perpetrators anyway unless for some reason you can relate and see yourself doing the same thing in her position.    If you can't, but it's so disturbing you would NEVER do that, then it should be obvious she got what she deserved.

@Aron Vanhaeverbeke the crime was definitely going to take place, unless that girl had made another choice.   Any other choice and that little girl is alive.   She got what she deserves.   She aimed, pointed, and pulled the trigger and he was the bullet that killed that girl.

@Aron Vanhaeverbeke the crime was definitely going to take place, unless that girl had made another choice.   Any other choice and that little girl is alive.   She got what she deserves.   She aimed, pointed, and pulled the trigger and he was the bullet that killed that girl.

@Arthur De Los Santos Damn right buddy. Normal peeps don’t do this shit

@Arthur De Los Santos Damn right buddy. Normal peeps don’t do this shit

To those wondering: I found articles that detailed her past a bit. She had a troubled childhood, but she was always extremely violent. Apparently she microwaved a dog when she was little and would fantasize about brutally beating people. She had a long criminal record of violence too. Her being young and having trauma is no excuse though. There are tons of people with similar pasts who would rather die than hurt someone that badly intentionally.

I want to know where the kids mom was when they took her from a freaking Home Depot?  Young children should be glued to you where ever you go. You don’t see any animal in nature not being around their children.

I want to know where the kids mom was when they took her from a freaking Home Depot?  Young children should be glued to you where ever you go. You don’t see any animal in nature not being around their children.

@elbachsito No she brought the hammer along and was the one who landed the fatal blow. She was just as involved as he was.

@elbachsito No she brought the hammer along and was the one who landed the fatal blow. She was just as involved as he was.

@elbachsito Oh come on. 18 year olds are old enough to know kidnapping children is bad.

@elbachsito Oh come on. 18 year olds are old enough to know kidnapping children is bad.

@elbachsito  she apparently testified that she used the hammer to kill the girl. So it’s not what it seems.

@elbachsito  she apparently testified that she used the hammer to kill the girl. So it’s not what it seems.

@elbachsito all 18 year olds know it is bad to cover up a murder and not talk about it. Even my sister with trisomy 21 knows that. Heck even my 3 year old baby cousin know its bad. Most people aren’t that stupid.

@elbachsito all 18 year olds know it is bad to cover up a murder and not talk about it. Even my sister with trisomy 21 knows that. Heck even my 3 year old baby cousin know its bad. Most people aren’t that stupid.

@elbachsito the girl was the one who killed her, Michael wanted to keep her as a sex slave and Terri didn’t want it to happen so she killed her

@elbachsito the girl was the one who killed her, Michael wanted to keep her as a sex slave and Terri didn’t want it to happen so she killed her

@elbachsito she was asked to kidnap a 8 yo girl what did she expect ? Shes guilty as well

@elbachsito she was asked to kidnap a 8 yo girl what did she expect ? Shes guilty as well

@elbachsito The amount of people saying things like this is truly disgusting.  Think critically about exactly what you're trying to say here.  Maybe you could do a bit more research on the person you're defending next time as well.

@elbachsito The amount of people saying things like this is truly disgusting.  Think critically about exactly what you're trying to say here.  Maybe you could do a bit more research on the person you're defending next time as well.

@elbachsito stop it, age has nothing to do with this. i’m 17 and i would <b>NEVER</b>  think about luring a kid to some rapist

@elbachsito stop it, age has nothing to do with this. i’m 17 and i would *NEVER*  think about luring a kid to some rapist

@elbachsito bro she literally admitted to being the one who actually tortured (broke the 8 year old's ribs with a hammer) and killed (bashed in the head with the hammer) the girl during the trial after trying to pin everything on the guy when the guy was only responsible for driving and raping the child.

The woman is arguably worse than the man here.

@elbachsito bro she literally admitted to being the one who actually tortured (broke the 8 year old's ribs with a hammer) and killed (bashed in the head with the hammer) the girl during the trial after trying to pin everything on the guy when the guy was only responsible for driving and raping the child.

The woman is arguably worse than the man here.

@Aron Vanhaeverbeke I think they have to think of it from a community safety perspective too. She witnessed an awful crime and never reported it. She confessed once they were caught. And being a main accomplice in such a crime and not reporting it means that she was probably willing to do this again for him had Tori not been killed. Was she going to just pick up girls for him to molester and then bring them back? Was that what she thought would happen? We rational people most certainly would have reported the request in the first place and not gone and acted on the abduction knowing what was about to happen to an innocent child. Someone with even that mindset does not deserve to be walking among us. I would prefer them in jail.

@elbachsito I'm 18 years old with a 6 year old brother, you know how fucking- I can't even describe how out of touch with reality I'd be if I had ever found out my younger brother was lured, molested and beaten to death, I would go into a horrible blind rage after that man just thinking about if anything has happened to him. She knew what was going to happen to that kid and she did Nothing to save her life, it's absolutely sickening and her age has Nothing to do with it, she was a fucking adult.

@elbachsito The video didn't cover her history, but according to news reports, Terri was born to a stripper, given to and adopted by a different stripper, moved from place to place frequently as a child, started doing weed when she was 8, tortured her family dog with a microwave and claimed that another dog did it (the dog had to be put down), was put into foster care at 12, got into fights with other kids, became a frequent user of hard drugs, and badly beat her foster mom when she was 16.  She also kept a notebook in middle school where she wrote about murdering people who pissed her off.  While she was, certainly, manipulated by Rafferty, she was not exactly a victim in this, either.

@elbachsito being 18 is the most terrible excuse for "she didn't know that abducting a girl for your bf to assault and murder was wrong". Pretty sure even children know that's wrong

@elbachsito being 18 is the most terrible excuse for "she didn't know that abducting a girl for your bf to assault and murder was wrong". Pretty sure even children know that's wrong

@elbachsito You are wrong, it was later revealed it was she who bashed the girls head with a hammer and is currently serving a life sentence for first degree murder.

@elbachsito You are wrong, it was later revealed it was she who bashed the girls head with a hammer and is currently serving a life sentence for first degree murder.

But seriously, why did she do that? How did she justify to herself kidnapping a girl to take to her boyfriend other than the kid being hurt? Therefore, she knew she was doing harm to an inocent person, she's only regretting it and crying about it cause she got caught, not because she cares aboyt the lil girl. At least that s how i see it, she's just as sick and twisted as him.

It actually came out at trial that it was the girl that did the killing.

It actually came out at trial that it was the girl that did the killing.

@Aron Vanhaeverbeke he might have been with her before she was 18 too and groomed her

@Aron Vanhaeverbeke he might have been with her before she was 18 too and groomed her

@Yogibearemployee it's human nature to avoid confrontation like this. It's a terrible and horrific aspect about us. Doesn't mean this girl is innocent, but understanding this aspect of humans is the best way to teach us how to step up when something happens around us.

This is called the bystander effect and is the reason people will drive by a fresh car accident or do nothing when they hear someone screaming. They instinctively will avoid the situation and tell themselves whatever story makes it easier because confronting the situation would be admitting that it happened. Further enforced by the fact that this girl knew that she abducted the child. She's got every aspect of an innocent bystander (in her mind) that makes them not want to get involved but also the fear of her own life/future. For this reason I'm not surprised she did nothing. She did however, abduct a child. I don't care about your situation, there's no safe reason for a selective kidnapping, let alone a kidnapping in general. I believe her guilt over doing nothing but I can't understand her choice to abduct the child.

For the record, please know I'm not attacking or telling you that you should feel anything sympathetic towards this girl's actions. I'm not criticizing your personal hatred for those who standby and do nothing, especially after experiencing it yourself. I'm just trying to explain the psychological response the girl had in this situation.

@Marra she could of helped the girl you know that right?

@Marra she could of helped the girl you know that right?

Preach. I have some sympathy for her apparent stupidity but goddamn... If I were her I would have just considered myswlf spoiled and thrown myself out by now

Preach. I have some sympathy for her apparent stupidity but goddamn... If I were her I would have just considered myswlf spoiled and thrown myself out by now

@Rhys I was advocating for 40+ due to the outcome of the kidnapping? I'll repeat it for the 10th time, I believe she deserves a different punishment from the guy, that is my main single argument I've made here, yet u completely ignore it then act like they proved me wrong xd

Look at the other guy I had a discussion with, he proved to me why what she did was a lot worse than kidnapping, qnd I agreed with him. So before u want to come out claiming shit about me, do the minimal effort of reading the actual stuff I wrote here

she is but can at least say she came clean there was remorse

she is but can at least say she came clean there was remorse

Agreed, atleast she was a CIVILIZED person and felt bad instead of him just saying "I didn't do anything"

Agreed, atleast she was a CIVILIZED person and felt bad instead of him just saying "I didn't do anything"

@Julie Exel she has empathy for what happened but let it happen she could have killed the one doing the atrocity and saved the little girl, in the laws eyes she’s just as guilty and is well deserved, she may not have committed the murder but she most definitely knew what he was going to do and still went through with it

@Julie Exel she has empathy for what happened but let it happen she could have killed the one doing the atrocity and saved the little girl, in the laws eyes she’s just as guilty and is well deserved, she may not have committed the murder but she most definitely knew what he was going to do and still went through with it

@elbachsito being 18 in a abuse relationship doesn’t make it less criminalising she knew he was violent and still went through with it, she delivered that little girl to a monster she is on the same level except she felt more guilt witch only makes her more empathetic!

@elbachsito being 18 in a abuse relationship doesn’t make it less criminalising she knew he was violent and still went through with it, she delivered that little girl to a monster she is on the same level except she felt more guilt witch only makes her more empathetic!

@elbachsito she heard the little girl cry for help and ignored it. She caused it just as much as micheal

@elbachsito she heard the little girl cry for help and ignored it. She caused it just as much as micheal

@Aron Vanhaeverbeke as I said I don't really care about winning an argument, or looking bad if I lose one. I do it completely for myself, to learn something new and to improve my skills, so I don't care what someone on the internet thinks about me. If someone is an annoying person who doesn't even read what the other person is saying and only wants to prove himself right, I just ignore them, which is why I was unwilling to spend time during our initial conflict. So thanks for your advice, and may luck be with you.

@Aron Vanhaeverbeke acctually you were saying "she should be charged with kidnapping" which carries a maximum sentence of twelve years. With good behavior she would be out in 6 years meaning she would be released very soon. This monster knew exactly what was going to happen to this young girl and went through with it to get a fix of heroin. Tell me how you were advocation for 40+ years? Sometimes I wonder why people can't just admit there were wrong online. Stop arguing your point when your point is wrong.

@Omkar Gawade Also man, I see your typing a lot to other People as well atm, but don't lose yourself in it, there will always be someone new. Take care

@Omkar Gawade Also man, I see your typing a lot to other People as well atm, but don't lose yourself in it, there will always be someone new. Take care

@CancerSquad Does she deserve the same punishment as him tho?

@CancerSquad Does she deserve the same punishment as him tho?

@Omkar Gawade Good comment. I think I know where our difference in opinion comes from! I live (and grew up in) a country where stuff like mental state, upbringing, .. are taken into account when determining the sentence.

I'm also not saying this is a better way of doing it, I think our justice system is way to soft. But that's probably why this whole thing feels so 'weird' to me. Thanks a lot

@Rhys 'defending'? You even know what that means? I never said anything she did was ok or excusable. I've said many times in these comments that she should be in jail for >40years. Is that defending? I just disagree with the sentence being the same for her as it is for the guy.

@Rhys 'defending'? You even know what that means? I never said anything she did was ok or excusable. I've said many times in these comments that she should be in jail for >40years. Is that defending? I just disagree with the sentence being the same for her as it is for the guy.

@Sebastian Johansson Depends on the jail etc, life in prison should be worse than that simply cuz of the mental impact. With todays prisons idk how much of that is still true tho. (I don't kniw a lot about thus kind of topic)

@Sebastian Johansson Depends on the jail etc, life in prison should be worse than that simply cuz of the mental impact. With todays prisons idk how much of that is still true tho. (I don't kniw a lot about thus kind of topic)

@CancerSquad All right and well, I'm just saying she should get 40ish years instead of life in prison. In my opinion that is

@CancerSquad All right and well, I'm just saying she should get 40ish years instead of life in prison. In my opinion that is

@Aron Vanhaeverbeke Yes absolutely she does. Wouldnt’ve happened without her. She’s a part of the crime noy’t a victim.<br>She had a choice and she took part in those atrocities. Even if she was coerced, even if she was manipulated. She did it. Now she pays for it

@Aron Vanhaeverbeke Yes absolutely she does. Wouldnt’ve happened without her. She’s a part of the crime noy’t a victim.
She had a choice and she took part in those atrocities. Even if she was coerced, even if she was manipulated. She did it. Now she pays for it

Imo she is a monster for what she probably knowingly caused, but her regret was also probably genuine

Imo she is a monster for what she probably knowingly caused, but her regret was also probably genuine

@elbachsito I’m 15 and i don’t see myself luring a 8 year old, she knew exactly what she was doing

@elbachsito I’m 15 and i don’t see myself luring a 8 year old, she knew exactly what she was doing

@elbachsito she lead a girl to her brutal death??? "she was only 18" she was old enough. don't infantalize her. she knew what was gonna happen and did it anyways

@elbachsito she lead a girl to her brutal death??? "she was only 18" she was old enough. don't infantalize her. she knew what was gonna happen and did it anyways

@David Shabo I thought that was obvious but apparently it’s not.

@David Shabo I thought that was obvious but apparently it’s not.

@elbachsito 18 year old and a heroin addict they said she did it for a fix I’m sure she lives with massive regret especially if she got clean

@elbachsito 18 year old and a heroin addict they said she did it for a fix I’m sure she lives with massive regret especially if she got clean

@elbachsito Finally someone sane who knows woman don't have agency.

@elbachsito Finally someone sane who knows woman don't have agency.

@elbachsito they switched her charged to first degree murder after looking into her role and she got sentenced to life in prison. She did it of her own free will and simply felt bad after and cooperated

@elbachsito they switched her charged to first degree murder after looking into her role and she got sentenced to life in prison. She did it of her own free will and simply felt bad after and cooperated

@Below Average she was fortunately also sentenced to life in prison aswell

@Below Average she was fortunately also sentenced to life in prison aswell

Im from Woodstock and she actually was sent to a “healing facility” out west but soon as the public found out there was sooo much backlash she was directly sent back to jail. FUCKING WASTE OF FLESH.

Im from Woodstock and she actually was sent to a “healing facility” out west but soon as the public found out there was sooo much backlash she was directly sent back to jail. FUCKING WASTE OF FLESH.

@Omkar Gawade This is completely untrue...

First and foremost, understanding the criminal is one of the most critical parts of determining their sentence. Why do you think so much time is spent trying to monitor remorse, state of mind, risk to re-offend, etc?

As for the emotional state of the offender not mattering, I can't even believe that you don't know this stuff but felt like you had to jump into this discussion to correct somebody else... Emotional state is maybe the most critical element of establishing intent. That word comes up an awful lot in felony trials.

@Omkar Gawade This is *completely* untrue...

First and foremost, understanding the criminal is one of the most critical parts of determining their sentence. Why do you think so much time is spent trying to monitor remorse, state of mind, risk to re-offend, etc?

As for the emotional state of the offender not mattering, I can't even believe that you don't know this stuff but felt like you had to jump into this discussion to correct somebody else... Emotional state is maybe the most critical element of establishing intent. That word comes up an awful lot in felony trials.

In the court case it was stated that she landed the final blow that killed the little girl...

In the court case it was stated that she landed the final blow that killed the little girl...

@elbachsito 18 is an adult age? How does she still doesnt use her brain

@elbachsito 18 is an adult age? How does she still doesnt use her brain

عبد العزيز اليزيدي

Some of you in these comments sound suspect as shit👍

Some of you in these comments sound suspect as shit👍

@Aron Vanhaeverbeke Let's not waste time thinking about the little conflict we had, if you are still interested in this topic you can go through a comment I made just before this one.

@Aron Vanhaeverbeke Let's not waste time thinking about the little conflict we had, if you are still interested in this topic you can go through a comment I made just before this one.

@Derp Y-Derp You're mixing up trying to understand the criminal's mind, and determining his sentence. They are two different things. Try to understand the kidnapper all you want, but still the sentence doesn't depend on the emotional state of the criminal, it depends only on the facts of the case, it doesn't matter if the criminal was abused as a child or whatever other reason, if bad things happen to you, you don't get the right to harm other INNOCENT people.

So the people letting their emotions affect their reaction to her sentence are wrong.

Another important thing is that when you're trying to understand a criminal don't begin to sympathize with them. Like how the first detective acted like a friend towards that guy, but when he left he didn't even bring him the promised food, even when he said he was hungry. Of course, you might feel like sympathizing with them, cause in the end we are all humans, but remember sympathizing with her, is an insult to the little girl she helped rape and murder. So don't let yourself feel bad for her.

Why are you looking at this case like it's the first time something like this has happened, criminal psychology has been dealing with people like her for centuries. We have already analyzed criminals like them but that hasn't helped stop crime. If you really are thinking about how to prevent crime, what NEW suggestions different from what we have now, have you thought of?

It is easy to say "How do we actually prevent this sort of shit from happening in the first place?" but finding an effective solution to the problem of crime hasn't been possible in the entire history of mankind. So all we can do is continue to protect ourselves and PUNISH criminals as we have been doing.

@Derp Y-Derp And from your perspective i am also learning☺

@Derp Y-Derp And from your perspective i am also learning☺

@Derp Y-Derp Yes, i am trying to understand by watching all of these videos on criminals and their psychology!

@Derp Y-Derp Yes, i am trying to understand by watching all of these videos on criminals and their psychology!

@Natasha Hughes Preventing crime is such a low priority that a lot of people see it as 'siding with the criminals'. It's really frustrating, but at the end of the day, if you want to stop people from wanting to do certain things, you're probably going to have to understand them.

@Natasha Hughes Preventing crime is such a low priority that a lot of people see it as 'siding with the criminals'. It's really frustrating, but at the end of the day, if you want to stop people from wanting to do certain things, you're probably going to have to understand them.

@Derp Y-Derp You’re smart i like the point you made now! ☺

@Derp Y-Derp You’re smart i like the point you made now! ☺

@Derp Y-Derp I don’t think, i am sure. I would’ve never put or will put an innocent child or being in that situation. I am very sure. I am not speaking for you or anyone else, and you don’t know me to say what i would or wouldn’t do. Maybe i fall in that very small precentage that actually help someone instead of taking them to their death.

@Derp Y-Derp I don’t think, i am sure. I would’ve never put or will put an innocent child or being in that situation. I am very sure. I am not speaking for you or anyone else, and you don’t know me to say what i would or wouldn’t do. Maybe i fall in that very small precentage that actually help someone instead of taking them to their death.

@bob builder Everyone is always the hero, yet during times like war, common people start committing atrocities. Even without war, there is this experiment where groups were divided into prisoners and prison guards (can't remember the name). Go look at what happened there. Not to say that what she did is ok or anything, and she should be in jail for decades. But you underestimate how easily manipulated people are.

fr idk how u can do that ESPECIALLY as a women

fr idk how u can do that ESPECIALLY as a women

@Natasha Hughes Everybody thinks they'd have done something differently. And yet, almost no one in that situation actually does. Experience > your wishful thinking.

@Natasha Hughes Everybody thinks they'd have done something differently. And yet, almost no one in that situation actually does. Experience > your wishful thinking.

@DesFighter This is a dumb question. We don't let the family of victims serve as jurors or prosecutors for a reason.

@DesFighter This is a dumb question. We don't let the family of victims serve as jurors or prosecutors for a reason.

yea she killed that girl tbh ...she played the biggest role in this ...her showing remorse and helping the cops out is cool but it doesn’t really take away a from the end result .

yea she killed that girl tbh ...she played the biggest role in this ...her showing remorse and helping the cops out is cool but it doesn’t really take away a from the end result .

@Yourboidatboihey For me it depends on how much she knew about what was going to happen, if she didn't know of anything I'd say 30-40. If she did then yeah, 50-60 is fine. It's kinda weird for me as in my country punishments are wayyyy to low. She"d never even get 20 here.

@Yourboidatboihey For me it depends on how much she knew about what was going to happen, if she didn't know of anything I'd say 30-40. If she did then yeah, 50-60 is fine. It's kinda weird for me as in my country punishments are wayyyy to low. She"d never even get 20 here.

@I have a girlfriend, trust me. I honestly watch a lot of these vids lately, so I didn't recall her knowing what his intentions were, if she did know, then yeah, she should be in for 50+

@I have a girlfriend, trust me. I honestly watch a lot of these vids lately, so I didn't recall her knowing what his intentions were, if she did know, then yeah, she should be in for 50+

@Aron Vanhaeverbeke i think she is the worst, she knew what he was going to do and yet she helped him,

@Aron Vanhaeverbeke i think she is the worst, she knew what he was going to do and yet she helped him,

@Aron Vanhaeverbeke I agree, life is too long, I think 50-60 years without parole would have been fine to me.

@Aron Vanhaeverbeke I agree, life is too long, I think 50-60 years without parole would have been fine to me.

I'd love to examine the behaviour of him and the girl on a day to day, see their dynamics and behaviours, did she fancy him and would do anything for him or what? This is my favourite criminal psychology to date mainly because of the talking skill and logic are used in this interview.

I'd love to examine the behaviour of him and the girl on a day to day, see their dynamics and behaviours, did she fancy him and would do anything for him or what? This is my favourite criminal psychology to date mainly because of the talking skill and logic are used in this interview.

@elbachsito u skipped. Watch from 31:10 and you'll see

@elbachsito u skipped. Watch from 31:10 and you'll see

@Omkar Gawade I get it now man, thanks for pointing that out. You're correct on these analogy's I think after rereading them. Would've helped a lot if u responded as a decent person, I would've read them normally instead of biased.

I'm not expecting anyone to teach me how any laws work. Someone commented that in their opinion the laws implemented here may not be the nearest resemblance of justice, I simply agreed with that. That's an opinion. Not everyone is forced to believe every single law simply because it is a law.

You talk about writing an essay about people when you are the one that started doing so, yet you are surprised by people not liking that and reacting to that? You talk about people being stupid and wrong, yet can't grasp the simple principle that insulting people leads to them reacting aggressively? Flat-earthers are wrong because their opinion is scientifically proven wrong. You wan't to call my opinion wrong because it doesn't fit with the law system, a system that differs all around the world, is thought by many to be incorrect in different situations, and is made by people. Again, you want to talk about stupid and wrong, how many intellectuals and lecturers do you know of that try to win a discussion with hard language? Educated people tend to just bring arguments instead of villainizing the opposition. Your name-calling is the simple reason why people are so divided and hate each other so much.

Still, I believe the girl doesn't deserve the same jail time for kidnapping as the guy does for sexually abusing and killing a minor, if you don't agree with that, that's fine, many people here do. Just be civil about it and agree to disagree.

@Joseph I see what you mean but isn't that like saying a person who drives criminals to a bank they're going to rob, is more guilt than the robbers themselves just because they had an early part in it? Not a perfect analogy as this is a murder charge, but people can do insane things through manipulation that they may never do otherwise. It's impossible to tell without knowing more really.

@DesFighter There's a reason family members and people personally close to cases aren't involved in the legal investigations.

@DesFighter There's a reason family members and people personally close to cases aren't involved in the legal investigations.

@elbachsito defending females, smh she is just as bad as she was ok with his intentions

@elbachsito defending females, smh she is just as bad as she was ok with his intentions

In some way worse since without her it's unlikely this would've ever happened and the girl put her faith/trust in the older girls hands, not the guy, illustrating how her trust betrayed and she suffered the ultimate price.

In some way worse since without her it's unlikely this would've ever happened and the girl put her faith/trust in the older girls hands, not the guy, illustrating how her trust betrayed and she suffered the ultimate price.

@elbachsito 18 is a legal adult in the UK if my partner told me to kidnap a child when he dropped me off I'd have ran to the police not proceeded to do so.

@elbachsito 18 is a legal adult in the UK if my partner told me to kidnap a child when he dropped me off I'd have ran to the police not proceeded to do so.

@elbachsito I agree with you. I'm not defending what she did in any way, and she has to pay the consequences. But if anyone says it's as clear cut as her being just as evil for the sake of it, I think that's even more ignorant. People can be so easily manipulated and taken advantage of. Again, NOT giving an excuse for her. But people are so quick to make an assumption and condemn because of the serious nature of the crime. There's usually way more to these things than just pointing the 'you're a monster and that's why you did it' finger.

She could have saved the little girls life. It would have been an awesome thing if she turned around and said fuck this, I'm out.

She could have saved the little girls life. It would have been an awesome thing if she turned around and said fuck this, I'm out.

I find it very sad that you felt it needs to be said.

I find it very sad that you felt it needs to be said.

@elbachsito Just because someone is in a bad position, that does NOT excuse their terrible actions.

@elbachsito Just because someone is in a bad position, that does NOT excuse their terrible actions.

I would say she got some sick joy out of it. Might have had something similar happen to her when she was young.

I would say she got some sick joy out of it. Might have had something similar happen to her when she was young.

@elbachsito in the court she admitted she killed the kid

@elbachsito in the court she admitted she killed the kid

@Mirai Nikki  stop twisting my words 😑 I said from the beginning she's a criminal, I just think what he did was even more atrocious, that's it

@Mirai Nikki  stop twisting my words 😑 I said from the beginning she's a criminal, I just think what he did was even more atrocious, that's it

@Aron Vanhaeverbeke I will do you one last favor to help you understand the analogy. The safety attached to the person climbing is like the safety society and the school provides to the little kids. The little girl won't follow a random adult man to a secluded spot where no one can see her get pushed in a car. The safety of society won't allow the guy to go anywhere near the girl and forcefully abduct her. So the girl luring the child away into the hands of the man was basically cutting through the safety society provided the kid with.

Now without the safety if anything bad happens to her of course it is her responsibility.

Yeah he didn’t have a gun, her life wasn’t in immediate danger, she could’ve easily told any employee at Home Depot to call 911. If she was afraid he would try to make her leave she could’ve even asked a manager to pretend to be holding her for shoplifting until the police came. She had so many chances to save that child without getting herself hurt.

Yeah he didn’t have a gun, her life wasn’t in immediate danger, she could’ve easily told any employee at Home Depot to call 911. If she was afraid he would try to make her leave she could’ve even asked a manager to pretend to be holding her for shoplifting until the police came. She had so many chances to save that child without getting herself hurt.

@Omkar Gawade 'If three people abduct someone and kill them' insinuates that they all commit the murder. In this case, if the man had come to his senses and let go of the child, would the driver still deserve this penalty? I think not. It's simply incorrect to adjust her sentence to actions she has no control over. She needs to be in jail for kidnapping while knowing the consequences could be grave. Wathever happens after that, isn't in her control, and shouldn't be her fault. SO her sentence shouldn't depend on that, it should depend on the actions she took and the risk she was aware of for the child. (at least in my opinion, this is an interesting discussion in my opinion)

@Random Guy yeah ; well, in that case the young woman was pretty screwed as it was. And i mean, an 8 year old kid was kidnapped, raped and murdered. The retribution part of the sentence can’t really go any easier than the possibility of parole. In the end her cooperation will probably get her freedom on parole after 24 years, but that other guy ? Now if that one was given parole that’d be a massive idiocy. I actually think the freedom on parole in the sentencing was addressed to her directly, and not to Rafferty. It appears the same treatment at the moment the sentence is spoken ; but frankly, if that wasn’t a « bundle » sentencing i believe that would have been a life sentence straight.

@Thomas Alègre de la Soujeole Yeah although exactly that part (the court procedure and investigation) is wildly different due to that. It took over 10 weeks of court deliberations where the family and prosecution were waiting for a verdict exactly because the perpetrator lawyered up and didn't say a thing. This was after she had come forward admitting to everything, being a witness to the crime giving a detailed description of what happened, where it happened and pointing to the crime scene and so on and so forth. If both had immediately admitted this would have been over immediately. If she had done the same thing as him, who knows what may have happened, maybe they wouldn't have found the body, maybe they wouldn't have won the case, maybe it would have taken months if not years more to finalize the case. So in this case she got the exact same sentence as him, even though they basically cooperated very differently (she admitting and providing evidence and cooperating while him denying up until the last second). In the end, this indicates that cooperating with them and confessing actually didn't help her at all giving him the same punishment as the guy who denied it all. So I think this is where most people are coming from when they say they wonder about the exact same sentence, of course the severity of the crime is the same, what they did is inexcusable. But in order to be able to investigate through it and prove it on court and catch the murder and solve the case, there is a very big difference in those approaches.

@elbachsito dude im 17 and I could've seen that coming, she led her with the false idea of there being puppies. This was purposeful.

@elbachsito dude im 17 and I could've seen that coming, she led her with the false idea of there being puppies. This was purposeful.

@Yogibearemployee grown ass adults that share complicity is disgusting ; i totally understand they get the same sentence as the perpetrator. But unless, like there, you can prove they knew (reasonable doubt&all) before the court ; its often the most difficult part for investigators&AG’s. Lots of people defend themselves saying they just couldn’t believe their neighbor/parent/colleague was a pedophile. When there is incest in families it’s often even more difficult... those are the sort of cases I find hardest to even contemplate. Wears you down like nothing else, and it’s hard to not grow bitter if you’re confronted to it too often.<br>I can’t even imagine how victims feel like. I know on the paper, but can’t pretend I could imagine the magnitude of the hardships.

@Yogibearemployee grown ass adults that share complicity is disgusting ; i totally understand they get the same sentence as the perpetrator. But unless, like there, you can prove they knew (reasonable doubt&all) before the court ; its often the most difficult part for investigators&AG’s. Lots of people defend themselves saying they just couldn’t believe their neighbor/parent/colleague was a pedophile. When there is incest in families it’s often even more difficult... those are the sort of cases I find hardest to even contemplate. Wears you down like nothing else, and it’s hard to not grow bitter if you’re confronted to it too often.
I can’t even imagine how victims feel like. I know on the paper, but can’t pretend I could imagine the magnitude of the hardships.

@Thomas Alègre de la Soujeole I think she was young and under the influence of the bigger monster, she has genuine remorse.

I think because I can see her remorse and it’s obvious that she cares I can understand her more, however I never saw that in my situation.

@Thomas Alègre de la Soujeole I think she was young and under the influence of the bigger monster, she has genuine remorse.

I think because I can see her remorse and it’s obvious that she cares I can understand her more, however I never saw that in my situation.

@O O she got life in prison. People don’t follow or what ? Parole is NOT automatic.

@O O she got life in prison. People don’t follow or what ? Parole is NOT automatic.

@Yogibearemployee yeah, i can totally see that. Ain’t my place and much less my job to judge if at 18 she was too scared or under influence of that monster. But retribution has been pronounced. She got equal sentence to the perp. Only difference her genuine remorse would do is the eventuality of parole.

@Yogibearemployee yeah, i can totally see that. Ain’t my place and much less my job to judge if at 18 she was too scared or under influence of that monster. But retribution has been pronounced. She got equal sentence to the perp. Only difference her genuine remorse would do is the eventuality of parole.

The first girl made me so pissed.

“She was on his lap, I could hear her calling me name.”

As a person who was in a similar situation like this, I still hold a grudge to people who saw what happened, who I told what happened and still did nothing.

Often I wonder if they cared or if they truly feel guilty.

Maybe if they said something I wouldn’t be going through this much trauma.

Kidnapping carries the same penalty as murder, so she's not getting out.

Kidnapping carries the same penalty as murder, so she's not getting out.

@DesFighter When it comes to 'if it was your family member' well, we would have people killed or locked up for a lot more than we do know. It's better to think rationally. Someone kidnapping a person doesn't deserve the same punishment as someone sexually abusing a minor and then killing them. I can't recall it even being mentioned whether she knew what the guy planned on doing with her. Is she wrong? Yes. Does she deserve years in jail? Yes. Does she deserve the same punishment as someone that sexually abuses then kills a minor? No.

@Aron Vanhaeverbeke what if 17 girl lure one of your family member to death?! I am pretty sure that you won't think the same

@Aron Vanhaeverbeke what if 17 girl lure one of your family member to death?! I am pretty sure that you won't think the same

@moralapostel yeah but she was a teenager in an abusive relationship with an older guy. It's obvious it was his idea and he talked her into it, she probably agreed because she wanted to please him. I mean she's guilty, but idk if I would put them at the same level... But I'm not a cop, a lawyer or even familiar with the case so what do I know🤷♀

@moralapostel yeah but she was a teenager in an abusive relationship with an older guy. It's obvious it was his idea and he talked her into it, she probably agreed because she wanted to please him. I mean she's guilty, but idk if I would put them at the same level... But I'm not a cop, a lawyer or even familiar with the case so what do I know🤷♀

@elbachsito lol no. Even the best possible outcome of abducting an 8 year old girl for her sicko boyfriend (the rare occurrence where the victim doesn't end up dead) is horrific to comprehend. Being complicit in this kind of crime is abhorrent, no matter which way you look at it.

What could she possibly expected to have happened to deserve leniency?

@elbachsito lol no. Even the best possible outcome of abducting an 8 year old girl for her sicko boyfriend (the rare occurrence where the victim doesn't end up dead) is horrific to comprehend. Being complicit in this kind of crime is abhorrent, no matter which way you look at it.

What could she possibly expected to have happened to deserve leniency?

Don't want to defend a criminal but she was only 18 and probably didn't know it would end up like this though... I've skipped some parts of the video so tell me if I'm wrong, but to me it seems she just did what she was told, probably was coerced or something

Don't want to defend a criminal but she was only 18 and probably didn't know it would end up like this though... I've skipped some parts of the video so tell me if I'm wrong, but to me it seems she just did what she was told, probably was coerced or something

At least she'll be living with that guilt for the rest of her life

At least she'll be living with that guilt for the rest of her life


He's sitting there saying nothing because you're not giving a chance to talk. Is this a interrogator or a preacher?


1st detective : *talks calmly *<br>2nd detective: SO HERE'S THE GIRL THAT YOU KILLED

1st detective : *talks calmly *
2nd detective: SO HERE'S THE GIRL THAT YOU KILLED

@StackerTheEOD lmfaoo and he was taking about Paul Bernardo

The first dudes voice is so soothing too Lmfaoo that Canadian accent would probably have me admitting shit I didn’t even do

2nd detective playing bad cop is sgt. Smyth of the Russell Williams case. He's a legend. This guy stood no chance.

He almost made me come clean of crimes I didn't commit, I shat my pants when he said "I'm the lead investigator"

When he talked about how Michael was gonna be making googly eyes with the other rapist in his glass cell, I fucking lost my shit


I remember being in 6th grade in Woodstock when this happened. This is the first crime doc I’ve seen where I actually have heard of it prior to the video and it really brings what I’m seeing back into focus. These crimes terrorize entire communities and leave families in ruins. Rest in piece Tori. It hurts seeing the perpetrator so self pitying when they had no pity to speak of for a CHILD.

Im from Stratford Ontario and I remember when this happened a whole gang of us wanted to go find the pricks that did this before the cops did and deliver them to the parents!!!!


That detective is such a bad ass. His final words to the killer were so haunting. Keep fighting the good fight against the evil in this world


It pissed me off when he said, "Losing my life!"... what about the life of the 8 year old girl that you robbed her from??

Really idk how these detectives do this shit and not snap

Exactly!!! I said the same words. Despicable and a waste of flesh.

Stoning is too good for this crime. Let the family have the priviledge.

Fucking right Luke. Best comment on here

Exactly my thoughts too. He violently ended a sweet girl's life and all he's concerned with is losing his? How sick and pathetic!

Yes and the parents, sisters, brothers, granddads, grandmums etc. etc. etc. etc.

@PinkOld <br> I think you speak from the heart.

@PinkOld
 I think you speak from the heart.


They have missing baseboards in that room. I’ll replace them for $300


The level of restraint to not just smash his head against that wall a good few times is impressive, I have a lot of respect for those interrogaters. Being able to walk out of the room and go home to your family knowing that that guy is gonna be back on the street at some point is something I can't even imagine.

Life without parole for 25 years...<br>Dunno if there’s a single Canadian parole officer that would take the responsibility to let Rafferty out, ever.

Life without parole for 25 years...
Dunno if there’s a single Canadian parole officer that would take the responsibility to let Rafferty out, ever.


I can't imagine the level of patience the interrogator had.  These disgusting people make my blood boil with rage.

Same. I'm glad they have people like the detective to get a confession. I would definitely violate the Geneva convention if I was in the same room

@Krowley Pineapples the fact that you don't have the same reaction is concerning.

It's gotta be satisfying slow rolling a dude, though. Knowing all the friendly rapport stuff is just wrapping on turd filled gift box. You made sure one of the last things they felt before losing their freedom, was deeply betrayed.

No doubt
I realize that they have to maintain their composure and professionalism in order to get the perps to talk, but I'm sure that inside they're just itching to read them the riot act instead or cave their heads in.
I'm quite sure that, most of the time, whether they get the perp to talk or not, they conclude the process with the most brutal tongue lashing that they can hand out, basically as was done here.
The interrogators would probably need that, if for nothing else than to not go insane from having to keep all that rage bottled up.

In a way the interrogation techniques already do that but in a slower nonviolent way. Watching the suspects break might give satisfaction enough.

I've been watching a bunch of these videos, and I'm really surprised by the level of cool professionalism these investigators show...It's also funny to see how many people (not you) that get offended by those tactics. Like talking calmly to put the suspect at ease and get the confession is "too good for them" and the cops should be beating confessions out of them or something.

Agreed, if I were the interrogator i wouldn't be able to not attack this sicko


She wasn't crying when she lured that girl to her death.

@Sam Kopp but.. She bashed the little girl's head in with the hammer. How is that not murder?

@Sardonicus there is no crime called accomplice. She is guilty of the crime itself for being a part of it and you know.. doing it

Exaclty. I saw someone saying that her life must have been bad and she just wanted to see him behind bars and that she should be helped or some shit. Idk what the hell goes through some peoples' brains. She was the reason they got the child in the first place and the only reason she talked is because they brought her in and confronted her.

@L S “transferred from prison to the Okimaw Ohci Healing Lodge for Aboriginal Women on Nekaneet First Nation in southern Saskatchewan”. Yeah they’re definitely being treated the same, and to make things worse she can actually try for early release in 3 years

@Sam Kopp they got the exact same sentence

@wate nallace they got the exact same sentence

@Sardonicus Same here. I know she kidnapped the girl and brought her to him.

@Mehki I was reading the whole thread and din't see anything that led me to believe that was what you were talking about, but since you clarified I suppose I just didn't understand the context since I thought you were saying she specifically hired him to kill the girl, but if that's not the case, then meh. I'm bored of this convo already. I'm just here to clarify legal jargon. My bad.

@SardonicusHello, I watched the video and understood that she brought the girl to him. If you had followed the thread I was engaged in, you would have realized I was giving an example under American laws that you don't have to"pull the trigger" to be considered just as guilty as the person who did the actual killing. <b>If</b> for example you hire someone to kill someone and you're a million miles away when the murder happens, you will still be charged with murder. So whether she bludgeoned the girl or he did, she delivered the child to him and is considered just as culpable under certain laws. But, it seems, they needed her to convict him so she got a lighter sentence. In exchange for her testimony. I'm not surprised in the least with her crocodile tears and "remorse" and she did the bludgeoning. In the crime depicted in the book, In Cold Blood by Truman Capote of the Clutter family in Kansas (I believe) of the two perpetrators, the seemingly gentle one, was the one that slaughtered the entire family. So the fact that she could do it and then fake remorse, well, it's been done before. Great book, read it sometime if you're into true crime. Also there's two movies about how he befriended the criminals to gain access to their stories. Both movies are good.

@SardonicusHello, I watched the video and understood that she brought the girl to him. If you had followed the thread I was engaged in, you would have realized I was giving an example under American laws that you don't have to"pull the trigger" to be considered just as guilty as the person who did the actual killing. *If* for example you hire someone to kill someone and you're a million miles away when the murder happens, you will still be charged with murder. So whether she bludgeoned the girl or he did, she delivered the child to him and is considered just as culpable under certain laws. But, it seems, they needed her to convict him so she got a lighter sentence. In exchange for her testimony. I'm not surprised in the least with her crocodile tears and "remorse" and she did the bludgeoning. In the crime depicted in the book, In Cold Blood by Truman Capote of the Clutter family in Kansas (I believe) of the two perpetrators, the seemingly gentle one, was the one that slaughtered the entire family. So the fact that she could do it and then fake remorse, well, it's been done before. Great book, read it sometime if you're into true crime. Also there's two movies about how he befriended the criminals to gain access to their stories. Both movies are good.

@Mehki she didn't hire somebody to kill the girl. You're thinking of Hitman. He hired her to get the girl for him, not the other way around. She was the accomplice. For her to be the one to hire him she has to be the one that made up the entire plan and she's the one that wanted the rape to be done for it to be the scenario you're suggesting to be true but it's clearly explained that it's the other way around. He was the one that desired help from her. She was the one that actually murdered the girl with the hammer to help him accomplish his goals. Didn't you even watch the video? You're describing things backwards. He'd be considered the one that planned this and under the law, the person whose intent was To Kill, is the one who's in Greater trouble than the Hitman who had no other motivation then money. It still makes the person who helped a shity individual who deserve prison, but you're misunderstanding the law. He'd be the one to get in more or equal trouble for being the one who's intent was the reason the murders were carried out. I'm a law student. I researched this shit a lot.

@KingChuckFinley that case is something that will never fail to instantly piss me off when I think of it

@Cj I remember the watching the Casey Anthony case unfold live on television. It was just that she was a woman, it was that she was a good-looking white woman. She obviously did it. No fucking doubt, and she got away with it. It would be truly unbelievable if I didn’t actually see it myself.

@Sam Kopp ummm she bashed the kids head in with a claw part of a hammer...

@wate nallace <br>Rafferty got moved from a maximum security prison to a medium one a couple years ago due to "good behavior, Canada is a joke and does not believe in fair sentencing it's all about "muh feels" for rapists and murderers

@wate nallace
Rafferty got moved from a maximum security prison to a medium one a couple years ago due to "good behavior, Canada is a joke and does not believe in fair sentencing it's all about "muh feels" for rapists and murderers

@Sam Kopp how can you be a lesser evil if you walk an  year 8 to her death

@Sam Kopp nah just look at the Casey video to see how women get treated way lighter than men by the criminal justice system. Know what, You don’t even need to look at one measly video, look at the facts and statistics on things like death row convictions and the disproportionate numbers of women who commit the same crimes as men, evading that sentence

@wate nallace She got life in prison for pleading guilty to murder

@Sam KoppI've said this before. But under abdomen laws, If i hire someoneto kill someone and even though I'm not there. I'll get punished even more than the killer. She kidnapped the girl. That's a felony in the states and lead her to her death. So either she pled or for some bizarre reason the DA didn't think he could get murder one on her. You know, because her tears are so convincing /s 🙄

@Mehki Yeah its true that being remorseful doesn't change what the person did or the fact that theyll serve time. But it can affect the judges decision when determinjng the length of sentence. (Like in Dalias case.)

@wate nallace But didn't they both got life in prison without the possibility of parole? That's what he said at the end of the video.

@Sam Kopp under American law, you don't have to pull the trigger so to speak to be guilty of a murder. You don't even have to be there. If you hire someone to kill someone, you are guilty, even more so. She lead the little girl to him, she would be considered just as cupable under the law. Apparently, Canadian justice agreed. She got life and he got 25 to life.

@Mehki being an accomplice is not the same as being the preparator. Especially since she gave a detailed account and confession with clear remorse.

@Sam Kopp No sbe would be considered just as responsible. They probably made a deal to testify against him to make sure he was committed. She's as disgusting as he is.

@Dustin McCoy You can tell from his reaction that he’s not the one who done that part of it. I always thought that from the interrogation

These kind of people only cry because they know they are done.. If they wouldn't have been arrested, they would probably not have shed a single tear..

@Bimmer Team yes u can read about it online

She was actually the one who struck the child over and over with the back of a claw hammer


so detached from people. I get it . we suck . but when did this man suddenly change. the way he thinks that he "doesn't need to answer to anyone" . how far this is from the bible and judgment ...


Mike: “I DID NOT DO WHAT U THINK I DID!”<br>Detective: “Sure u did but we’re past that...”

Mike: “I DID NOT DO WHAT U THINK I DID!”
Detective: “Sure u did but we’re past that...”


Michael: Molests and murders kid
Also Michael: "tHaT cOp wAs mEaN tO mE"

I wonder why

@P undoubtedly, but YT gets touchy when the "R" word gets mentioned and I don't want to this video to be throttled because of it

To be frank, cops are bad with anyone. This time just happen they were justified.

@nabs yeah man. stick me in that room and at BEST I'm screaming my fucking head off at him, at worst I'm gutting him on the table to listening to the noises he makes

lmao right if anything that "bad" cop was as nice as i could ever be


"Know what a psychopath is mike?"
"Never met one"
"Well i just met one tonight"

This detective should be charged with manslaughter

This comment gave me a lot of dopamine! Thank you !

Why should the detective be charged with manslaughter?

No shit. There were 2 murderers in the room at that point.

@Anatolian kangal wolf mike's my pickup boy and my cousin, me and mike's mum are coming for Ur poo

@Julia Hart hmmm... dunno if that's enough?

I say the detective should get a raise because he nailed this guy on the head with his interrogation.

Mans laughter lol.. You can see a therapist here, or you can see a therapist in jail.  The difference is the one in jail, is the-rapist...

Yep heard that guy before on several of these murder cases. He seems extremely skilled at what he does. This was more that we wanted to rile him up but still perfectly executed.

@Grahf Zero haha ever since I watched Ozark I think of that line all the time now

I read the detective in an Australian accent. Worth it! "Boom, headshot!" Aaaand we are done here!

@KrissyRose Animallover2021 by the way he burned him it could be considered arson

You mean mans laughter! He didn’t the cop didn’t kill anyone

he should be charged , it is illegal to own someone ...

@ExplosiveIronSN Just in case you wanna rewatch that murder.

@eddie pas yes, thank you that is the time :)

He even wanted to punch him up. Killed it at the end and walk out like a man. He was great

this comment shouldn’t be that funny but it is


It is so infuriating to see and hear that goddamn excuse of a human being say he’s scared about “losing his life” for his crimes and whimper and cry because he got caught. Clearly, since he killed an innocent and defenseless child, he was zero fucking regard for life at all. This interrogator put that man through psychological hell. I hope he feels that anguish for the rest of his fucking life. No person who kills and sexually attacks a minor deserves to live. That little girl had such a future. She had a family. She had friends. All she wanted to do was see a puppy and give her mom her butterfly earrings back. But yet Tori was led away, raped, and killed for no other reason than because some gross prick wanted to. I hope he rots.

That's why the detectives go through training so they don't get emotional in front of the suspect

@Hopsta The problem with this is when you draw the line where there is no doubt of their guilt.

You damn right that is beyond evil breaks my heart for this child beyond any words I can describe, God will take of them for harming that precious child, she is at least in heaven no more pain or suffering

The comments on this was a journey.

Back to the case

I recall this story. How ashamed I felt, that we let monsters like this breathe.

@AboveAll You don't have to be polite, but you don't have to be rude either, even though it's a tradition on YT. It's also a tradition to think that people who do horrible stuff are 100% horrible. You didn't fall for that one.

@WK  LOL the little troll is trying so hard :)

@WK  why are you so triggered by me? is it because you dont like someone making a valid point, or do you think ive ruined your potential troll game on everyone in this chat?

@AboveAll You've been in this thread for two weeks holy shit we have a tank troll here boys he probably weighs as many pounds as he times he's been bullied

@WK  nice account by the way, not even a year old :) seems you are the troll

@harry nac  I dont have to be polite to triggered snowflakes over the internet. its not required and by no means is the internet the first place to expect anyone to be polite to everyone.

@AboveAll you aren’t completely off since he clearly does care about his own life. I find it hard to believe he cares about anyone else’s life.

I feel the same way. It is sickening watching him be sad for himself after he took an innocent child’s life.

@roach you better ignore these guys, they do this for attention is all, and they don't deserve any.

@Visigoþ that isn't " doing more for society" its regressing it to a point where vengeance and strong emotions rule the world. We are a civilized society, and we should act like it.

@roach For instance, some people hate all women, but have no problem with men. So if someone clearly loves his son, you might think he's not capable of doing horrendous things to a girl. It's not in defence of the criminal, it's a way of staying alert.

@roach If you want to prevent things like this happening in the future, it's better to get a correct picture than a biased one.

@AboveAll can't believe you're actually defending him..

@Hopsta He can't be killed by the system but criminals don't take kindly to cases with kids.

I’m very protective of my kids. But im feeling an escalation of my situational awareness now that ive seen these videos. Because they people seem normal if they were on the street. No way you could know. Not like they look like quasimoto monsters they are. My kids will do martial arts hardcore. Not to fight other kids. But to learn situational awareness and defend themselves against ANY given threat.

@Hopsta ontario doesn’t have the death penalty so this guy will rot in prison and the prisoners will punish him on behalf of everyone

I had an increasing urge to stomp him out while watching the video especially when he was crying about how they would write down that he ate. He cared so much about himself, but had no care about Torri when he was murdering her.

@Visigoþ send trigger happy cops to them. 2 birds with one stone.

"Michael why dont you show us your ID?"
"Yeah su-"
"HE'S REACHING FOR A GUN" Proceeds to unload 56+ bullets into him

@Visigoþ send trigger happy cops to them. 2 birds with one stone.

"Michael why dont you show us your ID?"
"Yeah su-"
"HE'S REACHING FOR A GUN" *Proceeds to unload 56+ bullets into him*


I have a question. Why do they offer the suspect blanket? Is that suppose to comfort them or sth?

Same thing I wondered he should be left to get as cold as his heart or as the baby he killed such an evil guy


Canadians gotta have their Tim Horton’s! 😆


All I’d need is a claw hammer!!!! Start at the toes and work my way up!!


"We're done"
"Is that what you said to Tori before you killed her?"
Jesus Christ

@Neysiriss It's massive. I grew up around law enforcement and some of these detectives and investigators can't even sleep through the night after dealing with enough of this type of stuff.

@Jose Martinez that one was actually my favorite lmao

shortly after:
"I think you're a funny man"
"I think you're a cold-blooded killer"

This detective doesn’t look older than 50 but makes me feel like he’s got 35 years of experience. This detective was brutal

Imagine having dealt with stuff like this enough to have witty comebacks ready for a child rapist and murderer. TBH I get so emotional just hearing about this stuff and these guys deal with it, talk to the mother, meet the criminal, I can't even imagine the toll it must take on your sanity.


How the detective can say “you’re not some sick guy” with a straight face is beyond me, the professionalism is maaaaad

I would've club the guy the moment he says I'm too "sick" to talk

@Julian Sanchez yes we know. He’s just saying how it’s crazy to hear out loud even if it’s a lie to get the guy to talk…

The way I think about it is that he must secretly finish the thought with “you’re a goddamned monster” in his head.  That’s the only way I’d get through any of this.


Good opportunity to take a snooze while this officer exercises his jaw.   I’d confess to anything just to shut him up.

A interrogation technique so effective it works through video


He's so clearly in withdrawal. Sick, miserable. Perfect for an interrogation!! Glad he was in pain every single second.

he is beyond dopesick….. BUT he wasn’t dopesick when he did all that to that little girl.


God, imagine this detective being your dad, and he catches you coming home late one night. He'll talk to you until it's your bedtime 3 days from now.

I respect the hell out of that man. 17 years of this. The sacrifice he must have had to make in his own morals and maybe even sanity to beable to get and prosecute monsters like this.

My dad would lecture me exactly like this, an hour of him repeating himself. It was torturous.

Sometimes I feel they do the long talk when it should have been direct conflict and sometimes interrogators are direct when they should have long talked

I bet he has the worst cottonmouth in the world😆

"This was a mistake, right son? Son, it was a mistake, wasn't it? It was a mistake, son? Son, would you take it back? Would you take it back? You haven't even touched your donut.."

@Alex Copeland "A little truth is good, don't you think, son? I think it's good. And the good thing about the truth is that it's the truth. Ya know? The truth isn't a lie, son, the truth is what happened. So let's talk about what happened. So you came back late and that's the truth. You're saying you didn't drink but I can smell alcohol all over you. Did someone throw alcohol on you tonight? Who was it? Why did they throw alcohol on you? Come on, you can tell me what happened. The truth is good. Tell me the truth. You haven't even touched your donut."

The first guy was not good and he said ok 4000 times

“Now I didn’t MAKE you sneak out right? But the fact still remains you smell like alcohol, bloodshot eyes, sliding your speech, let’s be real here you went to a party, now what I’m here to find out is WHAT party specifically. Now in about 5 minutes your mom is about to bust through that door and then my hands are tied I just want the truth right? So let’s get some truth happening.”

He used to much much worst shit...I don't think he would care😂

We need to have this discussion son,  this is reality! Something pushed you to do this!!!

As 30 minutes of his lecture ends, you slowly start to speak again.
...
...
...
Dad...
...
...
...
Im 45, visiting you two for Christmas

>your curfew is 00:00
>you come home 00:02 to see your father, detective Okay sitting alone  in the kitchen with only a table lamp turned on, looking at you nodding slowly as to signalise you should sit down at the other chair perfectly set directly in front of him, while he takes off his glasses, starts massaging sides of his head with his hands, sighing with contempt. While sitting down you notice your mother is standing in the living room seeing this scene through the open door in almost total darkness, but as you notice her she starts closing the door slowly, and says - so quietly its pretty much a whisper - "ill leave you two alone"

You have some explaining to do, okay? Thats reality. I cant change that, okay? If this is something that got out of control that you didn't plan or planned to come back earlier, or just go for a ride, thats fine... but it got out of hand, we need to talk about that, okay? You need to sit and explain that say... why, okay? If not, then i say people think the worst until they know... there is no other way, you don't have other options, theres nothing else that you can do to change whats happened, you cant turn back time, however you can explain how things got off the rails... Are you some kind of monster, or did you make a mistake?

>your curfew is 00:00
>you come home 00:02 to see your father, detective Okay sitting alone  in the kitchen with only a table lamp turned on, looking at you nodding slowly as to signalise you should sit down at the other chair perfectly set directly in front of him, while he takes off his glasses, starts massaging sides of his head with his hands, sighing with contempt. While sitting down you notice your mother is standing in the living room seeing this scene through the open door in almost total darkness, but as you notice her she starts closing the door slowly, and says - so quietly its pretty much a whisper - "ill leave you two alone"

*You have some explaining to do, okay? Thats reality. I cant change that, okay? If this is something that got out of control that you didn't plan or planned to come back earlier, or just go for a ride, thats fine... but it got out of hand, we need to talk about that, okay? You need to sit and explain that say... why, okay? If not, then i say people think the worst until they know... there is no other way, you don't have other options, theres nothing else that you can do to change whats happened, you cant turn back time, however you can explain how things got off the rails... Are you some kind of monster, or did you make a mistake?*

LMAO this is hilarious to me because this is literally my dad. It definitely taught me to tell the truth right away; but even then he’d still go on and on🤣

@Ce Be omg THIS! LMAO Best comment of the day!!! Made me laugh out loud man lol 🤣🤣🤣

@Ce Be “Get rid of your fucking security blanket and go to school”

His children probably have inherited his skills.

Then he calls his partner to rip off your blanket when finally getting sleep


The woman could have done anything else to get her drugs. But take a child? She is evil too. There is no way she didn't know something terrible was going to happen to that baby.

Gives you a disturbing insight into drug addiction. Can turn anyone evil. I've heard of meth addicts selling their own children to get a fix.


the guy sounds like ricky and i cant get over it


Imagine having the audacity to say you're scared of losing your life just after you murdered an 8 year old girl.


omg this interrogator talked almost non-stop for hours, what a champ

Ikr the perp couldn’t confess even if he wanted to. Lmao 😂

Alex imagine how maddening it would be if you were the criminal...


This interrogator is the most aggressive Canadian I’ve ever seen

Just wait till you meet one of justines trudumbs migrants

Omg same! Was gonna post that. The canadian interragtors usually offer snacks, soda, tea, and have the cadence of a kindergarten teacher. This guy is gold!!

@im100percentg ☑   Clean ur room, Bucko...

You clearly haven't met enough Canadians, Steve up in the forest by me has got a bite force of 1200 psi and can kill seals in a single swipe. Sure he's a polar bear but he's still just as Canadian as anyone else. Just ask mike or the other Steve.

He was about to go play hockey and had to amp himself up


Who agree with death penalty carried in public for criminals like that?


Rest In Peace, Tori. You didn’t deserve this 🙏🏻😞😔

@LadyGaGa is hot Why are you liking your own comments?

@LadyGaGa is hot 8 year old gets abducted, raped and murdered.  Someone says she never deserved that.

Lady gaga is hot: "maybe she did"

@niandra ladie Actually nothing wrong with his forehead, it's more of an illusion.  It's more as if his eyes have been shifted down an inch while the rest of his face stayed where it was.

@Lord Brain I asked him in another thread what tf was wrong with his forehead. No response yet. Lollll

@Alex Flockhart Lmao indeed. He was in another comment thread trolling too 😒

LadyGaGa is hot Officer? This comment right here.

@LadyGaGa is hot Trolling takes more subtlety dude


I have reasons to believe that this channel is funded by lawyers.

Or by a foundation called “ don’t murder people”

You won’t get away with it

Lol! Don't get me wrong here, scum psycho criminals are fearful or too arrogant to think they'll  be caught and so they talk and give themselves away and that is BRILLIANT. But literally in any JCS video I watch if the dependent was completely innocent I would be constantly thinking about the right to silence and the No Comment rule.

Haha, yep, almost makes me wanna have one permanently hired even though I barely leave house during lockdown 😆


these videos have taught me a few things:

- ask for a lawyer
- dont be descriptive with ur words
- dont kill people, way too much work to cover up tracks

Learned that last one a bit to late tho...

@PirateDragonTurtle I love you for this lmao

Let's move the not murder to the top of the list

@Catfish And Bass I just learned not too as well. Phew! Thank goodness my schemes never went that far!

Hold up, you didn't know not to kill people before these videos??? 😳

@PirateDragonTurtle “wham, bam, thanks for the coke”

-ask for a coke then go back to your cell

@RedTukeGuy it’s sarcasm, my dear friend

YouTube videos taught you not to murder? Sheesh